Loud clatter from the engine on cold start

[RogPJ]

Hello, I've just bought a 2010 Toyota Auris 1.33 petrol for my eldest daughter to learn to drive in. It's done 67,000 miles and runs very smoothly when warm, but when starting from cold there is a very loud clatter from the engine which lasts about 20 secs. My local mechanic thinks that it is the timing chain tensioners. Are these external to the engine or internal? Am I likely to be facing a large bill?

Thanks in advance for your help...

[Mooly]

That certainly sounds very very clattery to me, and it also seems a 'random' noise rather than anything rhythmical. Honest answer would be that I don't know, however I wonder if it could be a noisy tappet that is slow to pressurise although I would expect that to be more rhythmical.  Does the oil look clean?

The chain and tensioner are internal to the engine but I wouldn't have thought that they could quieten down so quickly if they were at fault. It just suddenly becomes quiet.

Difficult working from a recording as it can accentuate and attenuate certain sounds. It sounds a lot worse as you zoom in but whether it really alters or whether its just the different mic position making it seem so......

Have you turned the aircon OFF as a test as the compressor runs pretty much straight after starting. Just trying to cover all bases really.

    

[TonyHSD]

Hi,

I am thinking about tappets too, and if it’s me first thing to do would be a engine flush and one or two oil changes in a short period of time. Sometimes using wrong oil viscosity  or dirty oil can cause exactly the same problems. , it’s a low miles engine so more likely to be a tappets than a chain or tensioner, but without further investigation and from a distance can’t really be sure.  Let see some more opinions. 

Good luck 

[RogPJ]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

That certainly sounds very very clattery to me, and it also seems a 'random' noise rather than anything rhythmical. Honest answer would be that I don't know, however I wonder if it could be a noisy tappet that is slow to pressurise although I would expect that to be more rhythmical.  Does the oil look clean?

The chain and tensioner are internal to the engine but I wouldn't have thought that they could quieten down so quickly if they were at fault. It just suddenly becomes quiet.

Difficult working from a recording as it can accentuate and attenuate certain sounds. It sounds a lot worse as you zoom in but whether it really alters or whether its just the different mic position making it seem so......

Have you turned the aircon OFF as a test as the compressor runs pretty much straight after starting. Just trying to cover all bases really.

    

Thanks Mooly for your reply. The aircon is turned off and the engine oil is clean. The car was serviced last year by the previous owner.

I'm just hoping that the repair bill isn't going to be huge!

[RogPJ]

59 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi,

I am thinking about tappets too, and if it’s me first thing to do would be a engine flush and one or two oil changes in a short period of time. Sometimes using wrong oil viscosity  or dirty oil can cause exactly the same problems. , it’s a low miles engine so more likely to be a tappets than a chain or tensioner, but without further investigation and from a distance can’t really be sure.  Let see some more opinions. 

Good luck 

Thanks Tony, we shall see what my local mechanic says on Friday when the car's booked in. Fingers crossed that the repair bill won't be too painful!

[Mooly]

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

[Kineticsteve]

I would do an oil and filter change on that make sure it’s got the right grade of oil in. 

 What ever the noise is if it don’t go away with an oil change. It’s going to cost. 

Changing the taps will cost in labour as will the chain kit and labour. 

I would do oil and filter 

then recheck in the morning from cold if noise still there check oil pressure. 

Tbh if the oil pump is not working probably that would be the cheaper option can change that just buy dropping the sump. If memory is right. Good luck 

[Catlover]

Change oil and filter, make sure the specifications of the oil match Toyotas specification, you can buy Toyota oil on eBay cheaply, make sure its the correct spec of Toyota oil for your engine.  Likewise make sure the oil filter is of a good standard. Cheaper ones may not have a mom return valve, meaning oil can drain out of filter whilst engine stopped. Next time you start up the filter takes time to fill, meaning oil not getting to other places as quick as should. DO NOT shrimp on oil nor filter, they are the life blood of an engine.

[Mooly]

The filter that the 1.33L uses is just a replaceable element rather than a traditional spin on style cannistor. The filter remains full of oil at all times. 

[mrfixer]

I'm almost certain that is not the tappets.  I've heard plenty of rattly tappets in my time, but none sounding like that. Not entirely sure what it is. A stethoscope on the engine might help. I would certainly lean toward timing chain/ tensioner. 

[Jessie69ers]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:50 PM, RogPJ said:

Hello, I've just bought a 2010 Toyota Auris 1.33 petrol for my eldest daughter to learn to drive in. It's done 67,000 miles and runs very smoothly when warm, but when starting from cold there is a very loud clatter from the engine which lasts about 20 secs. My local mechanic thinks that it is the timing chain tensioners. Are these external to the engine or internal? Am I likely to be facing a large bill?

Thanks in advance for your help...

IMG_9845.MOV

Hi mate,

The noise is your VVTI Cam gear. Another typical Toyota VVTI engine issue. There are plenty of videos on the net and you tube regarding this. If the noise is only at start up and only lasts 1-2secs thn I'm 200% sure your VVTI Cam gears need replacing as the seals are gone and it's not holding any oil. They typically hold bit of oil in it for initial start up.

 

See video below:

Watch "How to Replace Toyota Corolla VVTI Cam Gear" on YouTube https://youtu.be/Q9YIWxi92gM

 

[RogPJ]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I dropped the car off at the garage and the mechanic flushed the engine and replaced the oil, apparently the oil hadn't been changed for a while! This has reduced the rattling noise from the engine considerably and it's running smoothly, but I will ask him to check out the VVTI Cam gears next time it needs a service.

[Mooly]

Thanks for the update and I'm pleased to hear its running well.

I would recommend you keep a check on the oil level as the 1.33L can use quite a bit as the miles pile on. I've put in around 1.7L in 4000 miles. It is a known issue although it shouldn't cause any problems as long as you keep a check... and of course yours may not use any noticeable amount. 

[RogPJ]

2 hours ago, Mooly said:

Thanks for the update and I'm pleased to hear its running well.

I would recommend you keep a check on the oil level as the 1.33L can use quite a bit as the miles pile on. I've put in around 1.7L in 4000 miles. It is a known issue although it shouldn't cause any problems as long as you keep a check... and of course yours may not use any noticeable amount. 

Thank you for the tip, I'll keep a regular eye on the oil.