Does diesel even make sense?

[Byzii]

Hey guys,

I've got myself in a bit of a pickle here.

Have had my 1CD T25 estate for 2 years but now it looks like I will have to scrap it.

So far it looks like I bought into the hype at the time. Everyone said to go diesel, especially the 1CD, it's cheap and bulletproof.

Now it looks like everything, and I mean everything is more expensive on a diesel vs a petrol car.

I need new injectors, that's 250€ a pop + astronomical labor. Petrol doesn't have such issues.

I need a new drive shaft on the right side (the long one, on a LHD car), which costs like 200€ secondhand without guarantees. Petrol drive shafts don't break as often and are cheaper.

Clutch needs replacing, which also means that DMF needs replacing. Parts + labor are over 1500€! Petrol doesn't even need the flywheel replaced. Nobody even sells them, they just last!

Okay, it's a bit of a rant, but am I wrong thinking that petrols are just way, way cheaper to maintain? It looks like when you have to repair a diesel car, you have to go broke or just scrap it. Everything in a diesel has to be bigger and stronger, which makes everything much more expensive.

I'm looking at scrapping this one (value of it is like 2500-3000€) and getting a T25 petrol. But even looking at other makes or models, every part you can think of is cheaper on petrol.

What's your thoughts guys? I understand that for those driving 20k miles per year cost savings on fuel are big, but for someone driving 10k a year, this unreliability is killing me.

[Heidfirst]

23 minutes ago, Byzii said:

I understand that for those driving 20k miles per year cost savings on fuel are big, but for someone driving 10k a year, this unreliability is killing me.

If you are doing 10k p.a. or less then petrol is the better option, especially if you are running an old car out of warranty (at least in the UK, I don't know about taxation in other countries).

[Catlover]

It’s interesting, Edwards, that two years ago “you listened to the hype” and went and bought a diesel. Two years ago I decided to change my car, but I decided to move from diesel to hybrid. I dont remember two years ago hearing in the UK any hype to move to a diesel, the writing was clearly on the wall that diesel cars were clearly out of favour.  I change my Quashqai diesel for an Auris hybrid, which my wife now has because I moved to a Prius, two moves I have not regretted.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

It’s interesting, Edwards, that two years ago “you listened to the hype” and went and bought a diesel. Two years ago I decided to change my car, but I decided to move from diesel to hybrid. I dont remember two years ago hearing in the UK any hype to move to a diesel, the writing was clearly on the wall that diesel cars were clearly out of favour. 

2 years ago I traded in my 2nd Avensis 2.2 D4D for a 1.8 petrol. A year earlier than originally planned but as it turned out possibly not the worst time to get out ...

Other than car salesman, nobody knowledgeable in the UK was advocating people doing under 10k to switch to diesel (unless, perhaps, you needed to tow).

[Mr Wolf]

Despite my 2015 Kia Ceed Sportswagon diesel being newer, I traded it in January 2017 and replaced it with my current 1.8 Avensis petrol. My reasoning then was mainly economic in that I do mainly short journeys and I didn't want the problems associated with DPFs etc.

As I have posted elsewhere, the current PX value of the Kia has fallen dramatically compared to my current Avensis.

I expect my next move will be to a hybrid or PHEV.

 

[Byzii]

Sorry guys, not in UK, but even now in my country if you ask anybody what used car to get, 9 out of 10 times they'll say to get a diesel.

I guess it's due to old diesels being high mileage and so everyone thinks a diesel will go forever. They are made to a higher standard but it doesn't look like petrols are dying after getting over 100k.

Unfortunately a hybrid is not an option, way too pricey, which is why I'm looking at the same T25 but a petrol version.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Byzii said:

I guess it's due to old diesels being high mileage and so everyone thinks a diesel will go forever.

Modern diesels are a lot more complicated than older ones, run higher injector pressures etc. etc. so more likely to fail at some point (I am not sure that they are made to a higher standard at all).

For years I have been saying that you shouldn't run a modern emission-equipped, common rail, turbo-diesel out of warranty unless you can afford to pay the probably £1000+ for the potential common failures (DMF, injectors, DPF etc.) when they go wrong.

[TonyHSD]

Diesels does not make sense now and never had especially  in a small to medium sized cars. Diesels are only suitable for larger vehicles, vans, tracks, buses, something that needs low end high torque output. There was a hype about diesels and people where fouled to by manufacturers and governments , it was a marketing strategy boosting economy similar  how it is now with hybrids and electrics. In a near future something else will come up as power supply, Hydrogen for example and all will go against what is today. Buy a car that is most suitable for your needs, most reliable, economical and financially sensible. I personally will stay away from any older diesel, or petrol powered car especially from those with well known issues, it’s just a question when not if trouble will come to you. Naturally aspirated petrol engine with manual transmission perfect choice for country side living or full hybrid for cities which are also great in rural locations, no need to plug in. 

Regards 

[fastbob72]

Personally speaking,I spend 45-60 hours a week driving a 26 ton vehicle powered by diesel so have more than enough of them to drive a diesel car but in all truth I've never really understood the urge to run a diesel car unless you regularly tow caravans or boats.

I understand that there has,for some years now until recently at least,a general trend in favour of diesel through salesmen and even government 'nudges' so it's no wonder a lot of people went down that route,including my parents but even so you couldn't convince me out of my petrol into a diesel.Not that I am now laying back with a smug grin now that diesels are losing their popularity like they're infected with the plague because the future is undoubtedly becoming darker for my beloved petrol engined cars aswell.

Does it make sense? I think you pretty much answered your own question in that original post.At least,in your own terms and according to what matters to you it definitely doesn't add up but another man's poison etc means it still may make sense to someone else with different concerns although it's hard to imagine how it could but I'm sure it does to someone who does very high mileage or a lot of towing or carrying heavy loads.

Again,for myself I always far preferred the way the petrol engine delivered it's power to the diesel (yeah,I know modern diesels are much smoother and higher revving but I'm bombing around in a £600 car that's nearly 18 years old,I like old cars and just not prepared to lay out thousands and thousands to buy a diesel that runs like a petrol despite being able to afford it).Petrol engines are lighter,generally handles,brakes and steer better than their equivalent diesel version.Parts are cheaper,petrol is a little bit cheaper and always has been I think and even now my cars is doing an avg of 40-42 mpg which is fantastic considering I've always been happy to get 30mpg out of any of my cars.

If you do decide to part with your diesel has it lost a lot of it's resale value since the whole 'dirty cheating Volkswagen/anti-diesel' movement has swung into action ?

In the now approaching 28 years I've been buying and owning cars which is now healithly passed the 75 owned mark (my T22 is 79th,I believe making the old Celica technically number 80.Bought as a parts car though makes it debatable so I don't count it).Over that span of time and the full list of cars I can say with 100% certainty that resale value has never once been a consideration,not even a passing thought but I know that the vast,vast majority of people approach car ownership from a common sense,adult perspective so resale value definitely is an important factor.

I do feel sorry for all those people who bought diesel cars just as the consensus swung hard against them.Most people would have believed it made more sense because of the obvious generally held opinion that this was the case and who's to say they were wrong.Also just because the consensus has swung 180 degrees that's no reason to accept that the consensus has been corrected from previously being mistaken because the general consensus changes almost always because certain interested parties and their spokesmen tend to want it changed for their own particular agenda.If diesel was such a nonsensical option,more expensive for average use,more epensive to maintain and a lot less cleaner than believed why were they backed by so many parties who were accepted as having a clue.

I'm not going down the conspiracy path but simply saying that you really should do your own homework and ultimately you're own thinking when it comes down to what actually makes sense for you rather than go with the weight of opinion as that has the habit of doing a 180 in a heartbeat without accepting any responsibility for those that believed in it and listened only to find themselves on the wrong side of the fickle court of public opinion (which isn't worth a litre of diesel if you ask me ).