Catalytic Converter Thefts

[Catlover]

The concept is pretty good. Rather then just an electrical sound, a voice giving direction ie to call police, could be more effective.

Only thing is, if I heard the direction “thieves in action, call the police”, I may be reluctant to do so in case the thieves turned on me, stealing my phone, or even battering me. 

[KQ2020]

Good point and to be honest I wouldn’t expect anyone in eyesight of the criminals to call the police but idea is that they can’t be easily give the allusion that they’re “fixing” the alarm/car when stealing the cat.  However, not sure how easily this could be fitted to the Auris hybrid?

[Catlover]

4 minutes ago, KQ2020 said:

Good point and to be honest I wouldn’t expect anyone in eyesight of the criminals to call the police but idea is that they can’t be easily give the allusion that they’re “fixing” the alarm/car when stealing the cat.  However, not sure how easily this could be fitted to the Auris hybrid?

Why?

[PeteB]

Judging by many of the videos I've seen:

• a lot of people seem more interested in filming the theft that using the phone to call the Police (and the thieves don't seem to mind at all)
• the thieves seem to use a stolen car and/or stolen/false plates on their getaway car
• the whole thing takes under one minute (including one reported theft where a Catlock was fitted)
• even if the Police are able to respond immediately (often lucky if it's the same day!), the thieves will likely be long gone when they arrive

So while taking any steps to reduce risk is sensible, I wouldn't hold my breath that alarm-based solutions will reduce the risk by much.

[Luke717]

19 hours ago, Catlover said:

Neville, I will stand corrected on this, but I think the 1.8 Corolla is the same hybrid engineering as the Gen4 Prius, so suspect the cat is in the same physical space and so the Gen4 plate may fit. However, that link you put up, the supplier also does earlier Prius and Auris models, and no doubt they are watching for trends, and now the Corolla has taken off in the UK if you ask the question of them I sure they can get a piece of correctly pressed metal with a few holes to fit 1.8 (and maybe 2.0) Corollas.

Thanks for the insight, Joe. I've not yet got my new Corolla, just concern about this while I wait for it 🙂 I'll have a chat with my local dealer. Toyota has a blog post on their website published in April 2019 which, looking just now, has over 1000 comments largely from owners who've experienced cat thefts https://blog.toyota.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft-how-to-protect-your-car The most recent comment was yesterday.

Judging from Toyota's corporate responses, they're struggling to be clear on all of this. Lots of fear and confusion. I would have thought they would have more helpful info nearly a year after that post was published although it looks like they're reaching out to owners individually in many cases.

[Luke717]

Looking through the Toyota blog post about cat thefts I note that some of the recent responses by Toyota, the latest on Feb 17, include this:

Quote

...We have developed and are supplying theft deterrent devices at zero profit such as CatLocs, bolt caps, component etching and tilt sensors/alarms (available soon) to protect consumers from further attacks. As soon as we have more information to share, we will update this blog post.

Bold emphasis mine. Not specific to any particular model but at least 'available soon' is encouraging. They don't say how soon, mind you.

https://blog.toyota.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft-how-to-protect-your-car#comment-1561306

[FROSTYBALLS]

29 minutes ago, Luke717 said:

Judging from Toyota's corporate responses, they're struggling to be clear on all of this.

Don't think they are struggling.

I think some owners aren't being realistic in their expectations of what the manufacturer can do. Certainly on obsolete models (Auris and previous generations of the Prius) Toyota won't redesign where the cat is situated. They have made available catlocs and had production of these increased to meet the surge in the demand that has occurred in the past year, and also reduced the price of replacement cats. They have reduced the amount of precious metals used in their cats, making them less attractive to steal. However, catlocs , anti-tilt alarms, and other protection devices are only deterrents, and despite these being fitted, may not prevent some thefts still occurring.

Manufacturers have to tread a line between ease of maintenance/repair and providing reasonable security of components.

Similar situation where thefts of cars occur due to smart entry systems having weak security. Fiestas and Corsas where entire front ends are dismantled and stolen, etc. There is only so much one can do.

[bruce e]

On the question of nobody takes notice of car alarms sounding, I would suggest that this is because of alarms sounding for no apparent reason.Certainly if I heard an alarm and saw no suspicious activity by the car I too would ignore it. Not so if someone was half in the car removing the radio, I remember the startled look on the 16 ŷear olds face to this day.

I will fit a tilt alarm when they become available if only to alert me when parked on my drive, not too is a bit like never locking your car as it is a waste of time as they can always break a window to get in  LOL

 

[KQ2020]

7 hours ago, PeteB said:

Judging by many of the videos I've seen:

• a lot of people seem more interested in filming the theft that using the phone to call the Police (and the thieves don't seem to mind at all)
• the thieves seem to use a stolen car and/or stolen/false plates on their getaway car
• the whole thing takes under one minute (including one reported theft where a Catlock was fitted)
• even if the Police are able to respond immediately (often lucky if it's the same day!), the thieves will likely be long gone when they arrive

So while taking any steps to reduce risk is sensible, I wouldn't hold my breath that alarm-based solutions will reduce the risk by much.

Is anyone able to point me in the direction of any posts/sites where an individual with a catloc fitted has had their cat stolen in a minute or so?

I have only read of a couple of Prius that have had cats stolen when a catloc was fitted but the owners were not aware as to how long it took (as the cars were parked up for more several hours) and I have not heard of any being stolen with a catloc fitted to an Auris yet.  

However, if it only takes a minute, then looks like I've wasted £250 on my catloc and may need to bite the bullet and sell a car that I was hoping to keep for at least another 3 years and move on to something else pretty soon!

[Luke717]

6 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Manufacturers have to tread a line between ease of maintenance/repair and providing reasonable security of components.

It's a good point, Mike. I agree so I was a little harsh in my earlier comment. Still, when you see a dozen or more comments all with the same corporate-type response, that doesn't help Toyota. But there are no easy answers here.

 

[PeteB]

19 hours ago, KQ2020 said:

Is anyone able to point me in the direction of any posts/sites where an individual with a catloc fitted has had their cat stolen in a minute or so?...

I've had a quick search for the post I was thinking about, but I can't recall exactly where I saw it - there are several sites I visit where cat thefts are discussed by Toyota owners as it's a pretty hot topic, but it could have been one of the news reports I've seen on one of the many news feeds I get.

As I get time I'll keep looking and post a link if I can.  I'm sure in was in the last 2-3 months and I do recall it was someone who'd been hit twice, and who had the catloc fitted when the first one was replaced.

[TonyHSD]

Cat lock , plate can double even triple the time thieves need to cut and take the converter. The plate is wide enough and will flex while been cut through, also if security bolts are fitted those would add maybe a minute or two extra, plus if there  are stainless steel wires another few minutes, I think all that or part of all that will deter them, however if the car is parked on quiet road without many neighbours or passerby thieves will cut the car in half to take it. There are now pictures of lone thieves just doing it themselves without help mates, it’s the new mining industry. , why should you dig when you can cut and sell! Until the law changes to ban buying catalytic converters or any other auto part as scrap metal there is no light in the tunnel. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Until the law changes to ban buying catalytic converters or any other auto part as scrap metal there is no light in the tunnel. 

Which isn't going to affect those thieves who are sending stolen cats abroad.

[KQ2020]

My local Toyota dealership keep quoting along the lines of that having an official catloc fitted can add circa 15-20 minutes to time it takes to steal to cat.  But I very much doubt this and suspect it maybe turns it into a 3-5  minute task, albeit a slightly noisy one if they have to use an angle grinder rather than some form of bolt cutters.

agree that scrap metal legislation needs changing and enforcing fast!

 

[PeteB]

2 hours ago, PeteB said:

I've had a quick search for the post I was thinking about, but I can't recall exactly where I saw it...

This isn't the one I'm looking for, but it does report a 2nd cat theft when a Catloc had been fitted after the first loss.

 

[KQ2020]

Thank you, looks like the catloc is of little use.

just this somewhat depressing news article which although not cat related, highlights just how rampant car crime is at the moment:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/city-worker-returned-park-ride-3863649.amp

[Gerg]

@KQ2020  I'm not sure this helps in your dilemma, but anyway...

The cat. theft that Pete B. has quoted is from a Prius gen 2.

From what I can gather, that model of car has a relatively easy-access catalyst, and the catalyst itself, being an older model, is likely to have a greater scrap value than newer ones. (As the catalyst manufacturing techniques improve, the suppliers are managing to get the job done with less precious metal content, this is not just because of the theft problem - the design and chemistry has always been steadily improving.) To that end, on a gen 2 Prius the incentive to get by the Catloc may be greater for the thief.

From what I can see, the Prius gen 3 exhaust and underbody is closer in design to the Auris.  The catalyst is a little harder to get to, but still not difficult.  Basically, the two manifold bolts are a bit further out of reach, so a longer extension to undo these 14mm flange bolts is necessary.  A Catloc-fitted Prius gen 3 or Auris may be a little harder to overcome as space around the manifold and exhaust may also be more restricted than a gen 2, and the Catloc will be a different shape/model. 

For what it's worth, in addition to a dealer-fitted Catloc, Toyota are now listing "bolt caps" as a theft deterrent on their customer portal.  No one at the dealers seemed to know that these existed, how much they would cost, what they look like, or a delivery timescale.  They do know that they exist now though after I rang!   I would venture that they will be cheaper than the tilt sensor.  Fitting them will be really rapid - it will probably take longer to get the car on the ramp than it does to fit them.  These aren't going to fix the problem on their own, but I think this will be another useful 'time-waster'. 

On a similar topic, does anybody have any ideas if the inevitable Brexit-invoked border checks for goods going in and out of the EU, might help resolve the problem of shipments of stolen catalysts being exported?

 

[Luke717]

Yesterday, I asked Toyota GB via email via their website contact page if they could provide some clarity about catalytic converters and the 2020 Corolla. I referenced the large number of comments in their blog post about cat thefts (https://blog.toyota.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft-how-to-protect-your-car), noting that no one commenting there had mentioned the new Corolla. Specifically, I asked Toyota GB this question:

Quote

So what is the situation with the 2020 Corolla? Is it at risk? If so, is it at similar risk as cars from other manufacturers? More risk? Less risk? Or perhaps low risk?

In their reply today, they said:

Quote

We have seen that thefts occur more regularly with older vehicles, however this is not to say newer cars cannot, or will not be targeted. Unfortunately these thieves are highly organised and we cannot predict their activity. What we can advise though, is that the Catalytic Converters on new models are considerably smaller than those found on older cars, this is due to the improved economical performance of modern petrol engines, as a result the value of these Catalytic Converters is less, making them less desirable to thieves.

With regards to Catloc availability, the priority has been to produce protection for the older vehicles which are currently out on the road being targeted, however this is not to say that Catloc will not produce protectors for new models as well, your local Toyota Centre will be happy to advise further on this. 

I found this response quite helpful, actually, reinforcing what I've seen others mentioning in this Forum and elsewhere. What I'd like to know for sure, though, is the location of the catalytic converter and how easy or difficult is it to access it (I see very different opinions on this in this Forum), so I've emailed Toyota GB asking. Let's see what they say.

I keep thinking that in all the stories about cat thefts, I have not yet seen one that talks about the new Corolla. Either thieves aren't targeting them because of what Toyota GB says about cat size, or the Corolla's not on their radar yet. Hopefully the former.

[KQ2020]

Thank you Gerg, I hadn’t considered that there might be a difference between the cat positioning in older and newer Toyota hybrids and interestingly the very few reports I have read about thefts with a catloc fitted seem to have been from older Prius.  Bolt caps sound like a useful additional deterrent. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

13 minutes ago, Luke717 said:

What I'd like to know for sure, though, is the location of the catalytic converter and how easy or difficult is it to access it (I see very different opinions on this in this Forum), so I've emailed Toyota GB asking.

One thing to consider, and be wary of, re asking Toyota to provide details of the cat location on newer models (Corolla, Rav4, etc) is that they may be reluctant to put this into the public domain.

Especially if these details were then posted on an open forum which may be accessed by the very people who are responsible for cat thefts - which may then cause these later models to be targeted

[bruce e]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

One thing to consider, and be wary of, re asking Toyota to provide details of the cat location on newer models (Corolla, Rav4, etc) is that they may be reluctant to put this into the public domain.

Especially if these details were then posted on an open forum which may be accessed by the very people who are responsible for cat thefts - which may then cause these later models to be targeted

Agree 100%.

I would find it encouraging if T. Reply with a non specific answer!

Eg. It is less accessible than on previous models

[TonyHSD]

Hi, seems like Toyota has confirmed what I mentioned earlier in previous posts, I won’t  repeat it but if not deleted you can have a look and take a note. Thieves may look on our forum too, but I don’t think most of them are so smart and has much of spare time to educate themselves, they just target those cars that been told by the people who buys the cats from them. If you drive a Toyota hybrid and there is a free trade with cats risk is always here. 
Regards 
 

[Gerg]

9 hours ago, bruce e said:

Eg. It is less accessible than on previous models

It is definitely less accessible than previous models. But is it enough to make it too hard to try?

I have tried examining a 2.0 on the showroom floor. My phone camera photos can only show shadows and narrower gaps!

Is this coincidental (bigger sized parts for a 2.0 vs 1.8 vs 1.5), or is it by design?

A key factor is if the catalyst is before or after the manifold flange joint, and I can't see, it's too tight and dark!

[Luke717]

21 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

One thing to consider, and be wary of, re asking Toyota to provide details of the cat location on newer models (Corolla, Rav4, etc) is that they may be reluctant to put this into the public domain.

Especially if these details were then posted on an open forum which may be accessed by the very people who are responsible for cat thefts - which may then cause these later models to be targeted

Sure, so naturally Toyota GB haven't told me anything they shouldn't or that's different to what they have already put in the public domain.What I have quoted from their emails to me is pretty generic stuff that largely reflects what I've seen others talking about.

[Luke717]

I found a press release on the Toyota Europe Newsroom website that has this mention of the catalytic converter location on the new Corolla hybrids:

Quote

...Also lowering emissions, the exhaust system catalytic converter has been placed closer to the engine, and warm-up control after engine start optimised to achieve early, enhanced exhaust purification.

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/2019-the-toyota-corolla/

It's specifically speaking about the 2-litre engine but I assume it applies to the 1.8 as well. The press release was published in Feb 2019 so possibly things have changed. Still, I find it helpful to know this little snippet.