12v Battery problem

[FROSTYBALLS]

5 minutes ago, Andyreece46 said:

I did find this article on the Toyota site. 

The same as my post of 30th December 2020.

[sarahk45]

My Toyota chr hybrid is 7 months old and had RAC out 2 twice. It is the keyless car security system that drains the 12v Battery and once the Battery is flat, it will not hold any charge again so it will drain over and over, no matter how much you charge it. A new 12v Battery is needed but it will happen all over again until Toyota come up with a solution. Plus Toyota KNOW full well that this IS a fault with the keyless system design but they won't admit it!! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Do you make sure the key is outside the range of the car? Otherwise the locking system will keep searching for the key, and causing a drain on the Battery.

[sarahk45]

Yes my key is out of the range area and stored in a Faraday cage pouch within my home. RAC came out again and changed the 12V Battery. Then Toyota had it for 2 days and said there's nothing wrong with it. I get it back and all the lights are flashing on the dashboard again! The Toyota mechanic was so rude on the phone and said "I didn't know what I was talking about, there's nothing wrong with the car".

I'm now getting an independent Technician to do a full report and I will be getting back in touch will Toyota as I've had enough of this problem. They can have the car back!

[drews_chr]

I have replaced the OEM Battery with a premium quality AGM start-stop Battery, YUASA YBX9012 cost me £130 delivered. It has the same footprint as the OEM so it is an easy job to replace. It is too soon to decide whether this is a fix or not.

Your car will ignore the key fob if you disable it. (Hold lock button, press unlock button twice. Four LED flashes confirms.) The car will alert if it senses the enabled key fob nearby, or if you (or anyone else) pull any of the handles to check it is locked. This increased Battery use is only brief but is significantly greater than when the car is passive

Extremely poorly designed location means a larger capacity battery cannot fit without moving the earthing point, and no spill containment either, straight onto the boot floor.

Absolutely livid.

 

[UncleZen]

This 12v Battery issue with the chr and other toyota hybrids is putting me of buying one. My mums auris has exactly the same problem and 1 other person  with an auris hybrid I know also has this issue.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 minutes ago, UncleZen said:

This 12v battery issue with the chr and other toyota hybrids is putting me of buying one. My mums auris has exactly the same problem and 1 other person  with an auris hybrid I know also has this issue.

It is your choice.

[UncleZen]

Just now, FROSTYBALLS said:

It is your choice.

Yes, of course it is. Thankyou.

[TonyHSD]

38 minutes ago, UncleZen said:

This 12v battery issue with the chr and other toyota hybrids is putting me of buying one. My mums auris has exactly the same problem and 1 other person  with an auris hybrid I know also has this issue.

 

Tbh many other if not all cars are exactly the same, since Toyota hybrids has small 12v Battery they suffer slightly more than standard cars. I have my Auris over 10 years and still with its original batteries therefore really depends more of how you use and how you take care of the car , not the car make and model itself. Hybrids drives really nice, they are efficient and reliable, 12v Battery issues should not put you off, others has big issues, expensive repair bills, failures etc. Just sharing my experience.👍

[drews_chr]

I beg to differ, 12v Battery “issues” in any modern vehicle should be a massive red flag.This is 2021, right?

 

The last time I concerned myself with a car Battery was in 1957. Yes seriously, it was my job to trickle charge our Vauxhall Victor.

 

The absolutely last thing I thought about when buying the CHR was the “battery”.

Then the 12v Battery dies eight week later.

Then I read the forum threads.

 

From Toyota:

"For Hybrid vehicles – the 12V auxiliary batteries are not used to start the engine, however, they are considerably smaller than those in conventional vehicles,so again 1 hour in “ready” mode once or twice a week should be enough to keep the 12V battery topped up through this difficult period.” (My emphasis )

 

Yes, just leave it in the street for an hour twice a week, in “Ready Mode”.

 

Livid is an understatement believe me.

[FROSTYBALLS]

25 minutes ago, drews_chr said:

Livid is an understatement believe me.

Toyota Owners Club has no connection with Toyota, and Toyota do not visit the Club. So if you wish Toyota to know how you feel, contact them, as expressing yourself in these terms here is having no worthwhile effect.

[AmandaF]

I've been playing the Battery game with my 2019 CHR Hybrid Excel for a year now. In my opinion, the issue is that with keyless entry and ignition, alarm, computers to maintain etc., the parasitic current drawn when the car is "off" is very high - 50ma plus and can go much higher when activated, so if the key is near.  On a 50AH Battery, that will flatten the Battery to nothing in 1000 hours. But, of course, you don't ever get that far or fully flatten the battery to get the voltage so low it won't fire up the systems needed to start the car. 250hours (much less in cold weather) will do it and that could be (much) less than 10 days. If you only use your car infrequently (or not at all) it's really difficult to compensate for this parasitic current drain. Even charging it for an hour a week, as recommended, won't do it (I've tried), it will gradually just lose charge over time because behind the scenes it is drawing current.  A modern, non-hybrid, car has the same issue, but generally has a bigger battery as it's needed to crank the motor, so the problem seems less noticeable.  Turning the keyless entry off, as mentioned in the manual, helps but there is still significant drain. Now there's a bit more light a solar trickle charger may help a bit, so will be trying that soon.

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, AmandaF said:

I've been playing the battery game with my 2019 CHR Hybrid Excel for a year now. In my opinion, the issue is that with keyless entry and ignition, alarm, computers to maintain etc., the parasitic current drawn when the car is "off" is very high - 50ma plus and can go much higher when activated, so if the key is near.  On a 50AH battery, that will flatten the battery to nothing in 1000 hours. But, of course, you don't ever get that far or fully flatten the battery to get the voltage so low it won't fire up the systems needed to start the car. 250hours (much less in cold weather) will do it and that could be (much) less than 10 days. If you only use your car infrequently (or not at all) it's really difficult to compensate for this parasitic current drain. Even charging it for an hour a week, as recommended, won't do it (I've tried), it will gradually just lose charge over time because behind the scenes it is drawing current.  A modern, non-hybrid, car has the same issue, but generally has a bigger battery as it's needed to crank the motor, so the problem seems less noticeable.  Turning the keyless entry off, as mentioned in the manual, helps but there is still significant drain. Now there's a bit more light a solar trickle charger may help a bit, so will be trying that soon.

I fully agreed with you, the newer models like after 2017 suffer even more because of these connected services and all other electrical accessories, infotainment screens, etc. Although older hybrids suffer too, the new one seems worse IMO, I wonder if they have to jump start those brand new that been seating around for few weeks before delivery. 😉👍

[delbois]

I'm hoping to avoid the Battery issue with my 2020 Corolla ST with regular use and switching the hybrid system on if sitting for more than a few days. The Corolla Battery was flat when I initially viewed it at the dealer and they agreed to replace it when I bought it. 

I had to replace the Battery on my Auris twice in 7 years - I agree with some of the comments above regarding the battery never fulling recovering capacity once fattened, even with a smart charger. Interestingly the new battery fitted to the Corolla is 52Ahr vs 35Ahr in the Auris. It's very hard to research Toyota replacement part items but it appears the new Corolla battery is significantly cheaper than the Auris. The first Auris replacement was about £180, and albeit replaced under warranty. 

[Mikw]

12 hours ago, AmandaF said:

I've been playing the battery game with my 2019 CHR Hybrid Excel for a year now. In my opinion, the issue is that with keyless entry and ignition, alarm, computers to maintain etc., the parasitic current drawn when the car is "off" is very high - 50ma plus and can go much higher when activated, so if the key is near.  On a 50AH battery, that will flatten the battery to nothing in 1000 hours. But, of course, you don't ever get that far or fully flatten the battery to get the voltage so low it won't fire up the systems needed to start the car. 250hours (much less in cold weather) will do it and that could be (much) less than 10 days. If you only use your car infrequently (or not at all) it's really difficult to compensate for this parasitic current drain. Even charging it for an hour a week, as recommended, won't do it (I've tried), it will gradually just lose charge over time because behind the scenes it is drawing current.  A modern, non-hybrid, car has the same issue, but generally has a bigger battery as it's needed to crank the motor, so the problem seems less noticeable.  Turning the keyless entry off, as mentioned in the manual, helps but there is still significant drain. Now there's a bit more light a solar trickle charger may help a bit, so will be trying that soon.

Interesting.  So would you say the parasitic drain would be a lot less on cars without keyless entry?  Or just a little less?

[MarkBleach]

I never had a problem during the first lockdown where I didn’t use my car for months at all. I started having problems with my 12v Battery 3 months ago on my 2019 C-HR during this lockdown. I thought I had avoided the woes appearing on Facebook groups. I found I could fully charge it and do a 75 mile round trip and the Battery would be at just 50% 3 days later and then slowly loose 4-5% charge a day thereafter. My local Toyota garage fobbed me off telling me this was normal and I needed to drive it more. I complained to Toyota head office who contacted the dealer who offered to ‘have a 12v Battery in stock’ and do a diagnostic today when it was in for the annual service. This morning when I dropped it off the nice employee at the dealership informed me Toyota knows there is an issue exactly as I described above with the battery almost draining completely in 2-3 days which they are investigating (no doubt hence that notification email they sent us all recently telling us to trickle charge the battery) but as it’s not showing faulty on their diagnostic equipment it could be replaced under goodwill rather than warranty. Suffice to say I’ll be checking to see how well this battery fairs in the coming weeks. 

[Roy124]

I shall leave my CTEK charger running until tomorrow when we have a trip planned then will leave it off for a week.  

[GBgraham]

If people have had a flat Battery because of discharge and it's possible to so, I would suggest they slow charge the battery preferably with a smart charger, CTEK or otherwise. There is no telling that the new Battery is going on the car fully charged and if a main dealer has supposedly recharged a flat Battery, to what extent? Modern car charging systems are not designed to charge and condition a heavily discharged battery (nor boost chargers). Running or driving the car just to charge a battery seems a total waste of fuel.

[Roy124]

22 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

 Running or driving the car just to charge a battery seems a total waste of fuel.

And therein lies an entirely different issue comparable with the diesel emissions scandal.  The manufacturers stated emissions levels will be determined from a set range of criteria.  Even fitting a smaller and lighter Battery and not fitting a spare wheel might also have an effect.  But I would bet that nowhere in the test do they factor in an hour per week Battery recharge.

Will we see Battery Gate in the future?

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, GBgraham said:

Running or driving the car just to charge a battery seems a total waste of fuel.

Toyota's advice is to put the car into ready mode, which doesn't mean that the engine will be running for an hour. See the link posted earlier on 30th December 2020 within this topic.

[Catlover]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

And therein lies an entirely different issue comparable with the diesel emissions scandal.  The manufacturers stated emissions levels will be determined from a set range of criteria.  Even fitting a smaller and lighter battery and not fitting a spare wheel might also have an effect.  But I would bet that nowhere in the test do they factor in an hour per week battery recharge.

Will we see Battery Gate in the future?

With the weather getting warmer, that will help batteries, add the fact few more weeks and people will start moving about more in their cars.  More then likely this current problem of batteries going flat after a week non use will be over, and all probably forgotten about.                  
One reason I bought the CTEK 5 slow charger to get the Battery up to full charge as summer comes, and hopefully with more running about it will stay up there or thereabouts. Come early winter I will then use the charger to repeat that, and keep a check on it more regularly next winter if things change again ie more lockdowns.

[Roy124]

Frosty, I never said the engine would run for an hour but run it will.  It will run at the outset to warm up.  During this phase it will also recharge the propulsion Battery.  It will continue to restart through out this period to top up the propulsion Battery.  As you will be sitting in your car during this cycle (won't you :))  you will have the heater and fan on in cold weather and the radio on to reduce the boredom.  

I haven't tried this as I can rely on the CTEK charger.

 

To pick up Catlover's point, the biggest problem will be associated with our summer holidays and leaving the car in an airport car park.  I know that the Cruise Service Parking at Southampton have jump start trolleys for the occasional dead car but if many Hybrids require a boost you might have considerable wait.  My first vulnerability period will be next March but the problem will be that of the Meet and Greet Company.  My next will be in October but we shall park up at a friend's house.

I might still buy my own backup Battery just in case.

[TonyHSD]

Here is my experience.

The problems with dead 12v Battery in hybrids IMO is not because of the car been left for some time once but became of regular lack of use, driving today for shopping 2 miles each way and then again after two weeks, and then by the end of the month to an outdoor event 10 miles away, in circumstances like that will be a trouble. My car when bought was in a dealer for few months it was a low mile car no idea how and we’re had been used, since we had it we only use once a week for about 40min to 1.5 hrs and, actually time ON is  important not miles., then car left alone till the next weekend as I was driving another car for my work. Holidays each summer up to 21 days, no problems afterwards. Winters same only once a week use. Sometimes few longer journeys, then left to relax again, no issues. Since summer 2018 is my work car and driving every day for many hours which obviously is good for the Battery, first lockdown survival and now second lockdown will hopefully survive, I leave it up to 6 days without touching it but then I keep in ready mode for an hour, if heating is off engine only run twice by few minutes each time, as my hybrid Battery is always full when my car is at home. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

I never said the engine would run for an hour but run it will.  It will run at the outset to warm up.  During this phase it will also recharge the propulsion battery.  It will continue to restart through out this period to top up the propulsion battery.

Yes I'm well aware of this.

[Biomecanoid]

Could you not disable the wireless key entry by removing its fuse ? since you think that's where the problem is. I guess it might be more complicated than that.