What Would You Do?

[BigRedSwitch]

I had a new-ish Yaris Automatic as a courtesy car whilst my Auris Hybrid was being worked on.  I was impressed by the Yaris and it didn't feel that much smaller inside than my Auris.  I started to think about getting a CVT Excel version (I found the automatic transmission very jerky) but I'm in a quandry - should I wait for an end of line "current" Yaris which may attract a discount, or opt for a new model Yaris?  It seems to me that the new model is quite a bit more expensive and I'm not too keen on its styling but I'd probably get used to that.  Maybe I should stick with the Auris?  What would you do?

[PeteB]

One thing to consider is how long you plan to keep the car if you get an end-of-run bargain.  Getting rid to it too quickly could make it seem expensive.

In 2011 I bought the last of the Gen 2 Yaris, a 1.33 T-Spirit (top model) with MultiMode automated 6-speed manual transmission.

12 months later my dealer offered me a Prius Hybrid that exactly matched my ideal spec.  It was a 'business demonstrator' used by a local BBC Radio Station to go to shows etc., was 6 months old, 3,500 miles and £5,000 less  than a new one.

I paid £14,000 for the Yaris (a very good price), but the best I could get for it after just one year was £7,000 - a 50% hit!

As it was, I was still on speaking terms with my ex-partner and she took the Yaris (and is still delighted with it) and I traded in her 4-year-old Aygo MMT for just a 40% hit on it's new price in 2008 of £9,700.

[BigRedSwitch]

Yes, I guess the trade-in value of the Auris would be a clincher.  I'll have to do some research.

[Sampleman]

In October, I sold my 2005 Citroën C3 Pluriel with SensoDrive automated gearbox and bought a 2016 Toyota Yaris Hybrid. So I know the difference between an automated manual transmission and the Toyota HSD. And it is huge.

The main drawback of my Citroën gearbox was the automated clutch. It was far away from working smoothly and seamless. This was most noticeable when starting from standstill. Once the car was moving, the change of gears was noticeable, but not too bad. Other than a conventional automatic gearbox the SensoDrive would not "crawl" - so when the car stands still and you do not touch any pedal, the car does not move. However, when the car is standing at a hill, you have to pull the parking brake in order not to roll back. Maneuvering into parking slots or garages requires more attention than with a conventional automatic gearbox.

The SensoDrive also had advantages: It gives you a very straight feedback of the engine and the drivetrain, you could shift back and utilize the engine brake.

Compared to that, the driving experience with the Toyota Yaris Hybrid is entirely different. It is ultra-smooth: The car accelerates completely seamlessly, no jerks, no bumps. The Toyota HSD drivetrain works without a clutch. The engine and two electric motors are always engaged. So it is possible that the car moves while the engine stands still - or the engine rotates while the car is stationary (for example to charge the Battery or to heat up the cabin). You very soon get used to this behaviour, because the car is extremely simple to drive. Hit the accelerator and it accelerates, take your foot off the accelerator and it coasts, push the brake and it decelerates. It is stunning how quiet the car can operate. Every now and then there is a yellow light glowing in the speedometer, that means that the engine just switched off and that the electric motor is driving the car - you hardly notice when the car changes between electric and petrol drive.

Driving a hybrid car somehow is like riding on a speedboat: You accelerate and the engine yells up, and then you surf on a speed wave and the engine gets silent again.

I try to explain this feeling as elaborate as possible, because I think that this driving experience is unique in its class. And if you consider buying a Yaris with automatic transmission, You definitely should try a Yaris Hybrid, because it is the better automatic Yaris.

Best regards from Bavaria

Frank

[FROSTYBALLS]

The new Yaris won't go on sale til the third quarter of 2020.

The range of the current Yaris has already been slimmed down in a similar way the Auris range was reduced for 2018 in preparation for the new Corolla coming out this year. The range now consists of the Y20, Y20 Bi-tone, GR Sport and the Excel.

[BigRedSwitch]

Thanks Mike. I would only consider getting the Excel model.

[Gerg]

I had a courtesy 1.5 CVT Yaris about two years ago whilst our Auris hybrid was in the garage.  If I remember correctly, this car had the just-launched 1.5 engine, and had only covered a couple of thousand miles - so the same as one you might be considering?

I was surprised at how much I disliked that engine/autobox combination, I couldn't wait to hand it back.  It's rarely that I drive a car that I am so polarised about.  They didn't seem like a good match to me, regardless of driving fast or slow.

I wouldn't even think of one without a very long test drive.

Naturally, everybody is different....

[FROSTYBALLS]

The current 1.5 petrol engine is a re-worked 1.33.

[Sampleman]

I had a courtesy 1.5 CVT Yaris about two years ago whilst our Auris hybrid was in the garage.  If I remember correctly, this car had the just-launched 1.5 engine, and had only covered a couple of thousand miles - so the same as one you might be considering?
I was surprised at how much I disliked that engine/autobox combination, I couldn't wait to hand it back. 

I never drove the 1.5 CVT, but I just looked up the specs. The pure gas engine has 136 Nm torque, while the hybrid engine has 111 Nm torque AND the electric motor delivers another 145 Nm. I assume that this makes a difference you can feel, at least at low and medium speeds.


Best regards from Bavaria
Frank

[BigRedSwitch]

22 hours ago, Gerg said:

I had a courtesy 1.5 CVT Yaris about two years ago whilst our Auris hybrid was in the garage.  If I remember correctly, this car had the just-launched 1.5 engine, and had only covered a couple of thousand miles - so the same as one you might be considering?

I was surprised at how much I disliked that engine/autobox combination, I couldn't wait to hand it back.  It's rarely that I drive a car that I am so polarised about.  They didn't seem like a good match to me, regardless of driving fast or slow.

I wouldn't even think of one without a very long test drive.

Naturally, everybody is different....

I didn't like the automatic transmission but I liked the car.

[flash22]

The CVT and eCVT in the hybrid are very different beasts, i prefer a traditional type auto box but its becoming rare in newer cars especially in the smaller car segment

[bathtub tom]

3 hours ago, flash22 said:

The CVT and eCVT in the hybrid are very different beasts, i prefer a traditional type auto box but its becoming rare in newer cars especially in the smaller car segment

I understand Ford and Honda are returning to torque converter boxes in their automatics as automated manuals prove too troublesome. It seems Toyota ditched automated manuals some time ago.

[PeteB]

19 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

It seems Toyota ditched automated manuals some time ago.

Pretty sure the Aygo still has it, but I think you're right for other models.

[PeteB]

3 hours ago, flash22 said:

The CVT and eCVT in the hybrid are very different beasts, i prefer a traditional type auto box but its becoming rare in newer cars especially in the smaller car segment

The so-called eCVT in Toyota/Lexus Hybrids is a result of the design of the Hybrid system, not a choice of gearbox to go with it.  It's due to the way a sun gear (aka planetary gear) system is used to link three moving parts, the petrol engine, primary motor/generator and the wheels.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

42 minutes ago, PeteB said:

Pretty sure the Aygo still has it, but I think you're right for other models.

Yes, the second generation Aygo has the X-shift which is a development of the Multi Mode Transmission. Notable that after  5 years + there is only one complaint in the Honest John review re the X-shift.

Other non-hybrid models have CVT.

[TonyHSD]

Looking for an auto small to medium car and if Toyota is on the list, hybrid is the best way to go. That has always been my simple answer to people interested of hybrid cars and when been asked -“how is it to drive ? “, well it’s an automatic that is reliable and efficient. 
Regards 

[flash22]

3 hours ago, PeteB said:

The so-called eCVT in Toyota/Lexus Hybrids is a result of the design of the Hybrid system, not a choice of gearbox to go with it.  It's due to the way a sun gear (aka planetary gear) system is used to link three moving parts, the petrol engine, primary motor/generator and the wheels.

 

eCVT is fundamentally a different gearbox as it doesn't use a push Belt as in Aisin and Jatco CVT's, also imo the eCVT gives a better driving experience and is well proven in the Prius for its reliability

[flash22]

4 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

I understand Ford and Honda are returning to torque converter boxes in their automatics as automated manuals prove too troublesome. It seems Toyota ditched automated manuals some time ago.

There are big legal battles in the states regarding the Durashift, iirc Vauxhall has also dropped the easytronic in the Adam that said Nissan/Renault Jatco CVT boxes have major issue, when they let go they grenade turning the push belt into shrapnel and scattering metal all around the box writing it off

You may like Lehto's Law on YouTube

[Vinylseats]

Is the current 1.5 automatic Yaris (standard, non-hybrid) recommended for long journeys? The Honest John Real MPG website suggests it has excellent fuel economy but I was wondering if it performed well on twisty country roads and motorways.

[Bemused2]

I have a 1.5 standard automatic Yaris. They seem to be pretty rare compared with the Hybrid.

As you will know we all have different driving styles, in my case I like to press on and do not try to obtain the best M.P.G.

Pre lockdown. 120 mile motorway trip at the legal limit, 54 m.p g. Country roads 48 m.p.g. Around town 42 m.p.g.

Perhaps somebody who drives more moderately will do far better than that.

 

 

[mrpj]

I realise my Yaris is a 1.33l Multidrive (CVT) but I get a consistent 50+mpg with a mix of driving.

Long journey? Perfectly comfortable and relaxing for me. Some road noise but turning up the radio volume masks that!

[Vinylseats]

19 hours ago, Bemused2 said:

I have a 1.5 standard automatic Yaris. They seem to be pretty rare compared with the Hybrid.

As you will know we all have different driving styles, in my case I like to press on and do not try to obtain the best M.P.G.

Pre lockdown. 120 mile motorway trip at the legal limit, 54 m.p g. Country roads 48 m.p.g. Around town 42 m.p.g.

Perhaps somebody who drives more moderately will do far better than that.

 

 

Thanks for the info. Yes, the standard automatic does seem less common than the hybrid when I've been looking at them for sale.

Approximately how many miles do you get from a full tank of petrol to (not quite) empty, or what does the range mileage display generally say when full? I know this will vary depending on current driving style.

 

17 hours ago, mrpj said:

I realise my Yaris is a 1.33l Multidrive (CVT) but I get a consistent 50+mpg with a mix of driving.

Long journey? Perfectly comfortable and relaxing for me. Some road noise but turning up the radio volume masks that!

Sounds good. I guess it's fairly similar to the 1.5 CVT. 

[Sampleman]

I drive my Yaris Hybrid since half a year by now, and I also did some 500 mile trips on German Autobahns. Seating position, road holding and heating and climate system are fully capable of such a task, so I do not suffer anything.

However, there is one thing, which isn't that good: The car is rather noisy at high speeds. German car club ADAC has reported 71 db at 130 kph (roughly 75 mph). When driven faster (max speed is about 165 kph / 100 mph), the car gets even noisier, and the engine is constantly running under pressure.

According to ADAC, the 1.5 without Hybrid is not much quieter, they reported 70.1 db at 130 kph.

However, I have found a surprisingly easy solution for that problem: Last time I blasted over the Autobahn for hours, I simply wore a pair of Sony headphones with antinoise technology. They dim down the sound of the car significantly, without insulating you too much. As far as I know, it is legal to wear headphones in Germany as handsfree device for the phone. It is your own obligation to make sure that you can hear everything which is important. For me this solution worked perfectly - because I was alone in the car. If I am travelling with others, I'd like to talk to them, and this is not very easy with the headset on your head.


Best regards from Bavaria
Frank

[Bemused2]

Just thought I would mention other reasons for our shameful M.P.G. figures. Use of the sports mode and the paddle gear selector on country roads.  Then again the car has only done 2000 miles and with the lockdown for the past two months, only a weekly short journey.

When I filled the car with petrol last week it indicated a range of just under 300 miles. Current display shows an average of 44.1 M.P.G. Oh dear.

I am sure you will be able to do far better than that.

 

[Bemused2]

I owned a 1.33 autoYaris for five years and have found present 1.5 slightly better in terms of M.P.G. 

To add to our driving sins the wife likes to use the sports mode. I use the paddle shift on country roads.

Last week when I filled it up it showed just under 300 miles range. At present it is showing 44.1 m.p.g. average. Not bad really as when allowed out once a week I do clog it