Is jump starter useful for Auris Hybrid?

[itm]

I've always carried a jump starter in the glovebox with previous cars, and it has proved priceless when batteries have failed in the past. Unfortunately it was stolen earlier this year, and I've since bought an Auris Hybrid (2016 model). Would a jump starter be of use with the Auris Hybrid, or is it possible to jump start it from the HV Battery?

[Devon Aygo]

Yes you can use a Jump starter on your Hybrid infact there is a 12V terminal in the engine bay fuse/relay box for the purpose of jumping the car, please! do not touch the Hybrid Battery.

[eygo]

here is an image of a hybrid fusebox

 

[PeteB]

I keep one of the tiny jump starters in the seat back pocket just in case.

As Devon Aygo says, it's not possible to use the HV Battery without doing something both extreme and very dangerous.

In my both of Gen 1 Prius I had from 2002 to 2011, I kept an old fashioned large (and heavy) jump-starter in the boot (and needed it a few times).  For one thing, the tiny ones weren't available in 2002 (AFAIK), and for another the boot could be opened with the key (no key-less entry or start in those days) or the physical lever next to the driver's seat.

Later Hybrids, with their electrically operated boot opener, were a nightmare to get into the boot if the Battery was flat, especially if the car had been deadlocked so that only the driver's door could be opened.  That's why, on models with the 12V Battery in the boot, there are terminals under the bonnet for jump-starting (except original Gen 1, as discussed above).

The Toyota Hybrids don't have large capacity 12V batteries because they don't have to work a starter motor - the HV battery starts the engine, after the 12V battery has powered up the computers and relays that connect the HV battery to the system.  This also saves space and weight.

[itm]

The one I'm thinking of buying supplies 300 amps peak current. Should that be enough to start it?

[Beekeeper D]

Overkill! 
8 amps for a few seconds is about all you need. 
It has to boot the computers, work the relays to connect the hybrid Battery and (the hardest part) electrically pump up the hydraulics (so the brakes work). 
 

You don’t need the explosive power that it takes to start a conventional car engine, so something like a 12v burglar alarm Battery should do the job. 
 

The 12v Battery in the car is rather small. 
Which is fine, unless you leave something turned on - the interior light is a common mistake - when the battery will go flat quicker than in a conventional car! And then the thing is dead until you provide enough power to reboot the thing. Leaving the car for ages with the alarm draining the battery (think airport car park) can also be problematic because of the smaller battery. 
So having a reboot battery is perhaps more important than with conventional cars... 
Once rebooted and you have a “Ready” light on the dash, the 12v is being charged from the hybrid battery (whether or not the petrol engine is running). So just keep the car “on” for 15 minutes or so to get a bit of charge into it. 
 

Flatten it a few times and the 12v battery will be damaged and unable to hold as much charge as it did before, so it goes flat more easily and you have progressively more problems. 
Toyota offer a fixed price new battery fit package for £125, which is very competitive indeed. 

[itm]

16 minutes ago, Beekeeper D said:

Overkill! 
8 amps for a few seconds is about all you need. 
It has to boot the computers, work the relays to connect the hybrid battery and (the hardest part) electrically pump up the hydraulics (so the brakes work). 
 

You don’t need the explosive power that it takes to start a conventional car engine, so something like a 12v burglar alarm battery should do the job. 
 

The 12v battery in the car is rather small. 
Which is fine, unless you leave something turned on - the interior light is a common mistake - when the battery will go flat quicker than in a conventional car! And then the thing is dead until you provide enough power to reboot the thing. Leaving the car for ages with the alarm draining the battery (think airport car park) can also be problematic because of the smaller battery. 
So having a reboot battery is perhaps more important than with conventional cars... 
Once rebooted and you have a “Ready” light on the dash, the 12v is being charged from the hybrid battery (whether or not the petrol engine is running). So just keep the car “on” for 15 minutes or so to get a bit of charge into it. 
 

Flatten it a few times and the 12v battery will be damaged and unable to hold as much charge as it did before, so it goes flat more easily and you have progressively more problems. 
Toyota offer a fixed price new battery fit package for £125, which is very competitive indeed. 

Many thanks for that - very helpful. If £125 is a very competitive price for a replacement Battery I'm guessing that these batteries are a helluva lot more expensive than conventional 12V batteries? (I would usually spend £60-80 on a car battery). Ironic really, given how relatively little work they do compared to a normal car Battery!

[Gerg]

I did contact Yuasa technical (who make the12v battery) with similar comments/questions to yours above.

They said that the Battery is a higher specification than a 'normal' 12v Battery.  Specifically, this meant a greater number of deep-discharge cycles before the Battery gets to the end of its life, so this battery is more like a leisure-type battery.  Apparently, normal 12v batteries are best used with an  80% - 100% charge range for maximum longevity, the techie said, outside of that range is when the quicker deterioration takes place.

A regular battery would fit, and be significantly cheaper, he said, but there is some ventilation plumbing that may need adapting to fit.  He expected a normal battery to have a shorter life.  

For your information, the 12v battery is covered by the car's 5 year warranty, but the Toyota warranty department will not accept the battery back without the paper print-out from their (the dealer's) 'intelligent' battery tester.  If the battery passes this test after you have requested it to be checked, then some dealers will charge you 30 minutes labour time for their investigation, but not if it fails the test, obviously.

The Toyota  £125 menu price is for any model of 12v battery for any Auris (diesel, petrol or hybrid).  The menu price for a Yaris battery was (is?) slightly less, but the Yaris hybrid uses the same battery as the Auris, for what it's worth. 

I have an idea that the 12v battery is connected via a 100 amp fuse, but I haven't checked this.  A few folk in areas with unreliable mains, mostly in the US, have fitted mains inverters to their Prius (so same HV electrics as Auris) to allow them to operate their homes 'off-grid' during power cuts.  The car then becomes a quiet and catalytically cleaned generator with a decent-sized petrol tank.  At the recent Japanese launch of the latest Yaris, a 1500w mains output was listed as an option, but perhaps not for Europe.

A google search of 'Prius car camping' throws up some 'interesting' ideas.

HTH.

[itm]

Interesting stuff - many thanks!

[Beekeeper D]

Because the Battery is mounted inside the passenger compartment (rather than under the bonnet) it should be capable of connection to the car’s vent tube so any gas is discharged outside.  
Because it it is in a place vulnerable to accident damage (and inside) it needs to be of AGM construction (not a basic ‘wet’ Battery that could add acid to passenger problems in an accident). 
And it isn’t a common shape and size... Halfords don’t offer one for the Auris hybrid. 

The logical upgrade  (if you can mount it) might be a similar volume, higher electrical capacity Battery designed specifically for repeated deep discharge cycles with minimal damage - as in the case of mobility scooters, computer UPS or solar power storage. Our battery is supposedly a halfway between those and a typical car AGM battery (which as Greg indicates have a usable capacity that is actually only a small fraction of the nominal capacity.) 

The £125 does get you a Toyota warranty. And I went that easy convenient way when I needed one recently. 

From reading these forums, I have formed the opinion that the 12v batteries last more years on high mileage hybrids than low mileage ones. 

[Catlover]

Not only is the Auris Hybrid Battery within the load area, it’s actually just inside the off side rear, so any rear end bump makes it susceptible to splitting as Douglas above has said.    
Doigal, the Toyota supplied Auris 12v Battery IS a common shape.... it’s looks like a “normal” 12v Battery, with standard top hat connections.

[Beekeeper D]

I found other batteries with the identical footprint, but different heights. The terminals are Japanese standard small posts. 

Neither Halfords nor the AA list a Battery to fit and suit. 
What have you found?

[BigRedSwitch]

The 12v Battery in my Auris went flat again on Christmas Eve. Fortunately, Toyota Assist (aka AA) arrived within 10 minutes and got me going. 

I know the 12v Battery is small and gets topped up from the "main" hybrid batteries but because most of my journeys are short (2 to 3 miles) I try to put in a 15-minute run every few days because I think the top-up process doesn't complete on the short trips.  Would it be better if, on alternate short trips down to the shops, I use the car in PWR mode so the hybrid Battery is able to transfer more charge to the 12v battery without the bother of having to power the car? Or am I talking tosh?

[TonyHSD]

Hi and Merry Christmas. All you need to do is leave the car in ready mode sometimes for an hour or so and your 12V Battery will be recharged nicely and you will not need to worry too much. You don’t even need to drive the car, just make sure you have some petrol in the tank as petrol engine will start few times during this time and will top up the main Battery which will top up the small 12V Battery. 
Happy holidays 

[BigRedSwitch]

But I can't leave the car in ready mode for an hour because the the key fob would need to be in the car during that time.  Surely, I can't lock the car with it in ready mode? 

[TonyHSD]

Actually you can leave the car in ready mode on without the key fob In, than lock the doors using an emergency key build into the key fob, however I don’t recommend you leaving your car ON without been around. Either way , to answer your question straight: driving in power mode will not recharge the 12V or the hybrid Battery any better. 

[BigRedSwitch]

Thanks Tony.  As the car would be on my driveway I could, legally, leave the car running, locked and unattended.  I do have a jump starter but it didn't work!  I thought, it too, was flat but perhaps I didn't have a good enough ground - the cables are rather short...