MPG for 2.0l hatchback

[Wheresmywig]

Hi all, 

I've got a 2.0l excel HB on the way and just curious to know what MPGs you are all getting so far? I'm coming from a 2l diesel, so hoping to see something of an improvement, but I'm struggling to nail down some real world figures. Main type of driving for my commute will be a mix of motorway, country roads and small towns, around 50 miles each way. 

Thanks in advance! 

Dan

[AndrueC]

I would tentatively think at this time of year you'd be looking at mid to high 40s depending on your driving style (particularly what speed you drive the motorways). I have a relaxed and efficient style with a 12 mile commute mostly on rural a-roads and my 1.8 is managing mid 50s.

[Wheresmywig]

Cheers for your reply. I've been driving a 2018 yaris 1.5 hybrid on loan since my last car died and been getting around 62mpg in that on my commute currently. Fairly relaxed on the driving front, holding around 60mph on the motorway due to traffic and a mix of 50 & 30 for the rest. The old bmw was getting between 50-55mpg. 

Will be interesting to see how the 2.0l will compare to this and the 1.8l. Would expect to see between 55-60mpg in the new one but im sure I will find out soon enough. 

I've not seen a huge drop in MPGs in the yaris since it got colder, but not sure if this is because of the length of the drive and everything has a chance to get up to temp. 

[AndrueC]

The trick as ever is to use the acceleration guidance screen.

[Wheresmywig]

Yep, driven quite a few hybrids so far. I'm impressed by how far they have come along if I'm honest, even the yaris is quite enjoyable. I was blown away with how smooth the 2.0l was to drive on the test drive, just in the waiting period atm... Itching to get the keys! 

[nielshm]

Mine has done 52 mpg on 2 fillup's. I need to do a normal average tank of fuel with normal mixed driving, just like I used to with my old Auris. 

But every think indicates, that the 2.0 sucks more fuel than the 1.8, but is very power full, without going into high revs. 

[OXYGEN]

As I wrote in another thread yesterday, I just finished 2-day long motorway trip of 1700km.

Yesterday with speeds 74-77mph (120-125km/h) I got 38 mpg (7.4 l/100 km).

Today something strange happened as my speed was even higher (Germany no limit autobahn) - 84-87 mph (135-140 km/h) and the consumption is better - 43 mpg (6.6 l/100 km).

 I guess this is because of less wind and probably less hills...

[Catlover]

Any change in air temperature?       

 

 

[OXYGEN]

Colder today. It was between 0 and 4 Celsius. Everything seems to be worse but here’s the consumption...

Or maybe different quality petrol? Yesterday it was Serbian and Croatian and today German...

[Timmon]

3 hours ago, OXYGEN said:

Colder today. It was between 0 and 4 Celsius. Everything seems to be worse but here’s the consumption...

Or maybe different quality petrol? Yesterday it was Serbian and Croatian and today German...

You are using normal setting, not EV or Sport?

[OXYGEN]

First day Eco only, second Eco and Normal when entered Germany.

[Wheresmywig]

24 minutes ago, OXYGEN said:

First day Eco only, second Eco and Normal when entered Germany.

I've heard eco isn't great for highway driving. This is especially true on the yaris I'm driving at the moment. It's more suited to driving around town in stop start traffic. 

[shufman]

Only had my car for a few days, just nudging towards 50mpg ... Mix of town and motorway .. with running Yaris hybrids in the past 18 months I can say that there’s a 8-10 mpg increase in fuel consumption in winter due to engine running to power the heater. Eco helps but it’s not as warm in the cabin. 

[Timmon]

6 hours ago, OXYGEN said:

First day Eco only, second Eco and Normal when entered Germany.

I found that Eco mode is very bad on the highway. I used it for normal commute driving, and lost almost 10mpg. I think it is for nose to tail city driving only. Try using normal mode only, you will see an improvement. I would only use Eco mode if in London or stuck on the Motorway, and back to normal mode as soon as the traffic starts moving.

[Wheresmywig]

Cheers all. Any thoughts on the more powerful motor included on the 2.0l? Is it easier to keep in EV mode? I've also read that the Battery seems quite hard to get to a charge above halfway.

[OXYGEN]

Battery default state of 2.0 seems to be 3 out of 8 bars. When ICE chargers it, it will go to 4/8.

What I have seen so far is up to 7/8 but just once. I had it up to 5/8 and then there was very long descent, where I went down on partial brake (just before the end of the blue regen bar) on purpose to see how much it will add.

Usually it fills on average descents up to 6/8.

So in general, to add bars to the Battery, you need to regenerate. Most easily on long and not slow descents. About 400-500 meters descent with speed before it around 25-30 mph and a Stop/Red light at the end can add two bars using the regeneration carefully (trying not to use the brake pads). 
 

To keep it in EV mode, you need to accelerate as a turtle with arthritis and not go above 20-25 mph... For me above this speed, in EV mode is possible only to keep current speed or even decelerate slowly.

[AndrueC]

The 1.8 is different there then.

Normally it charges the Battery to within one bar of the top if it can. But in very long queues where the Battery simply does have enough charge it will keep it between one and three bars. And regen generally adds little to the Battery, whether it be from the foot brake or from 'engine braking'. The bulk of the charge seems to come from the ICE.

I've also seen all bars lit many times. One journey in particular (Rye Hill Golf Course to Brackley) always leaves all bars lit. When that happens the car goes into EV mode of its own accord for most of the final mile of 50 mph road.

[nielshm]

I've found out how things work (but not why they work as they do). 

Issue 1: Battery power is very limited at lower speeds, like 50 mph. 

When I start up on a cold engine, the first 8-10 miles are allmost nonstop petrol power and Battery charging. But when the engine finally has fully warmed up, Battery has charged to 7 bars, things start to develop. First charging stops for short periodes. Electric motor is 'tested' for 3-4 sec. interval, charging turns back on. The cycle repeeds it self 4-5 times, and finally hybrid kicks in, and petrol engine gets it's electric boost. 

If the car goes into fully EV møde, even just for a very short time, the charging and test cycle starts all over again, before hybrid assistance once again helps the petrol engine. 

Issue 2: Economy is better at 62 mph than 50 mph. 

True. For some reason, hybrid helps allmost all the time doing 62 mph or faster. So, if the car is within the 10 mile heating up and charging zone, mpg's will be better doing 62 mph than 50. 

Buttom line: The car needs some tweaks to perform it's best in every day driving. I don't do motorway very much, I don't have the chance for going 62 mph in longer periodes. I have 17 miles to my work, overall average is 48 mpg, but could be a lot better, if the hybrid system would help some more, and not just the last 7 miles. 

[Catlover]

Neils....  you say Bottom line: the car needs some tweaks to perform its best in every day driving.    
Toyota have been building Hybrid cars for some 20 years, and after 20 years you would think they know how to manage a hybrid system. Let’s suggest they do (a safe bet I reckon). So, maybe it’s the driver, who could very well be owning his/her first hybrid vehicle (like I was 30 months ago), that needs some tweaking.         
To run optimum performance an ICE needs to be within certain temperature parameters, heat. The heat is produced only when it is running..... you know all this, yes..... and that’s why your hybrid engine runs more when cold, and this colder weather demands the engine runs even longer. When the engine in a hybrid is warm enough (as determined by Toyota) the computer allows the Battery to take over and the engine stops.  A stopped engine will start to cool, the computer senses this and starts the engine again.  Especially within a first journey of the day it’s easy to see why the engine keeps cycling between running and not running, and when the engine is running it is usually charging the Hybrid Battery (useful later in the journey). When the engine is deemed by the computer to be warm enough not to run, the hybrid Battery will only kick in if there is enough in store, however if there is not enough in store the engine will continue to run until there is.     
So, all the driver has to do is relax and drive the car.   You will read how Toyota hybrid owners say “it’s the most relaxing vehicle I ever driven”, and I am one of them.  The e-cvt transmission is a part of that experience too, seems to be a unique auto gearbox among most car manufacturers.         
There is not much a driver can do in the situation you have described, but once the engine is running within the operating temperatures and there are enough bars in the Hybrid battery there are things that the driver can do to get better performance.  I think I am right in saying the new Corolla hybrid has been out in USA before UK, so go on YouTube and look for videos to show driving tips. If there is not many for the new Corolla then look for Prius Hybrid driving tips..... there will be loads, I know because that’s what I did 30 months ago..... and still do on occasions.         
I always view the Hybrid to be a very useful compromise between an inefficient petrol engine and a full electric vehicle. EV has its drawbacks at the moment (recharging availability), Remember the Hybrid concept has its flaws too - the engine weighs a big chunk, and so does the Hybrid battery. So there is the compromise..... inefficient petrol engine or lack of EV charging points. I am happy with the compromise...... even in these low temperatures I still getting high 60’s mpg on relatively short journeys. I do try to keep off MWays and not to use cruise control.      
Hope this proved useful Neils.

 

 

[nielshm]

 Catlover, you misunderstand my point. I dont seek the chance to drive in EV mode, some times it happens going downhill or coming up to a red traffic light. That all fine.

But I would like the hybrid systems to give more assistance to the petrol engine, not to turn it off, but just help with a gentle push. But as long as the engine is cold AND the Battery is charged to at least 7 out of 10 bars, that's not going to happen, no matter what I do. That said, the electric motor always helps during accelerations, but driving with 50 mph on a flat open road is without any assistance for the first 10 miles or so.

The Prius is maybe "tweaked" to even greater efficiency than the Corolla, making some things nearly impossible in the Corolla, but easy to archive in the Prius. 

[AndrueC]

I agree that for whatever reason 50 mph is not a good speed for the car. It seems like it can do a better job of charging the Battery at 60 mph and consequently the Battery is better able to help the ICE. Below 50 I think that the lower power demands mean that Battery has proportionally more charge so again can help out the engine a lot.

However 'not a good speed for the car' doesn't mean the hybrid technology is not working. I'm driving the same commute that I've been doing for over five years now and driving it the same way. My 1.8 Corolla is turning in mid 50s mpg despite the current cold and very wet weather (it's been a nasty Autumn where I live). By comparison my previous car - a Honda Jazz - would just about average mid 50s in summer. If I was still driving it I reckon I'd be struggling to keep it in the 50s this year,

All in all that's pretty good proof that the hybrid system works well. As for why there's a hole around 50 - I don't know. But I mentioned one possible reason above. Ultimately the battery is always charged by the ICE (even regen braking ultimately comes from the ICE since it's the ICE that got you to that speed or the top of that hill) and there are losses involved in getting energy into and out of the battery. I don't think it's correct therefore to seek to maximise time spent using the battery. It should be viewed as a scarce resource to only be used when it makes sense to do so.

Furthermore the faster the car is moving the more power is required to keep it moving. The more power required from an ICE the more efficiently it will operate (it's a strange dichotomy but it's true). Thus at higher speeds there is less need for the battery to help the ICE and in fact it might be doing more harm than good when you consider the losses incurred in charging the battery.

So I think a good rule of thumb is only to use EV in low power situations where the ICE would be operating inefficiently and/or where the charge in the battery can yield the greatest distance. Possibly also if the battery is becoming seriously full in which case discharging it to make room for more charge could make sense.

The grey area is if the battery can avoid the ICE having to move into a higher power that reduces efficiency but I'd imagine this is relatively uncommon simply because the more power you demand from an ICE the more efficiently it operates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#Gasoline_(petrol)_engines

"Engine efficiency peaks in most applications at around 75% of rated engine power, which is also the range of greatest engine torque (e.g. in most modern passenger automobile engines with a redline of about 6,000 RPM, maximum torque is obtained at about 4,500 RPM, and maximum engine power is obtained at about 6,000 RPM)"

So if the car is cruising at 3,000 rpm and more power is required to climb a hill then letting the ICE increase it's RPM is likely to be a better choice than using the battery to take the extra load.

[Timmon]

7 hours ago, Catlover said:

Neils....  you say Bottom line: the car needs some tweaks to perform its best in every day driving.    
Toyota have been building Hybrid cars for some 20 years, and after 20 years you would think they know how to manage a hybrid system. Let’s suggest they do (a safe bet I reckon). So, maybe it’s the driver, who could very well be owning his/her first hybrid vehicle (like I was 30 months ago), that needs some tweaking.         
To run optimum performance an ICE needs to be within certain temperature parameters, heat. The heat is produced only when it is running..... you know all this, yes..... and that’s why your hybrid engine runs more when cold, and this colder weather demands the engine runs even longer. When the engine in a hybrid is warm enough (as determined by Toyota) the computer allows the battery to take over and the engine stops.  A stopped engine will start to cool, the computer senses this and starts the engine again.  Especially within a first journey of the day it’s easy to see why the engine keeps cycling between running and not running, and when the engine is running it is usually charging the Hybrid battery (useful later in the journey). When the engine is deemed by the computer to be warm enough not to run, the hybrid battery will only kick in if there is enough in store, however if there is not enough in store the engine will continue to run until there is.     
So, all the driver has to do is relax and drive the car.   You will read how Toyota hybrid owners say “it’s the most relaxing vehicle I ever driven”, and I am one of them.  The e-cvt transmission is a part of that experience too, seems to be a unique auto gearbox among most car manufacturers.         
There is not much a driver can do in the situation you have described, but once the engine is running within the operating temperatures and there are enough bars in the Hybrid battery there are things that the driver can do to get better performance.  I think I am right in saying the new Corolla hybrid has been out in USA before UK, so go on YouTube and look for videos to show driving tips. If there is not many for the new Corolla then look for Prius Hybrid driving tips..... there will be loads, I know because that’s what I did 30 months ago..... and still do on occasions.         
I always view the Hybrid to be a very useful compromise between an inefficient petrol engine and a full electric vehicle. EV has its drawbacks at the moment (recharging availability), Remember the Hybrid concept has its flaws too - the engine weighs a big chunk, and so does the Hybrid battery. So there is the compromise..... inefficient petrol engine or lack of EV charging points. I am happy with the compromise...... even in these low temperatures I still getting high 60’s mpg on relatively short journeys. I do try to keep off MWays and not to use cruise control.      
Hope this proved useful Neils.

 

 

Catlover, interesting what you say> as many here, the Corolla is my first Hybrid. Before, I had a nippy Saab 93 Turbo, a drivers car. Manual, basic, as it was 17 years old and I had it from new. No technology, if you wanted to know, you could scroll to find out the computer's (SID) view on how much fuel you were using, and range etc, but otherwise, the list of what technology it didn't have was endless! Nevertheless, it was a fun car, never let me down once, and great interest when I sold her as she is now much sort after as a collectors car.

Now, I push out the stops and buy a brand new Corolla. Delighted! But, it is more computer than car. Instead of just driving, there are a mass of reports on how you are driving, how you should be driving, MPG is in your face, the mysterious Hybrid indicator which I still don't fully understand ( what is with the blue bar, which sometimes disappears, sometimes not, I think I get the green bar, almost) , reports on Battery usage, ICE on or off, etc, etc. That's just the power, then all the other technology to worry about!

I find myself teasing the accelerator, hardly daring to press it down too much in case I go into the dreaded "Power" section, trying eco mode to see if that saves fuel, it doesn't (not for me anyway), then tut tutting when I find the last drive gave me a better score that this one. I actually find myself having a stressful drive, not relaxing!

But when I can't be bothered to look at the indicators whilst driving, and just enjoy the journey, I seem to have better scores, and better mpg!

So, there seems to be merit in ignoring the indicators and just driving normally. No one at Toyota suggested that I spend most of any journey monitoring the reports, like an airliner pilot. I will try just driving it for a while and enjoying, using the reports as a curiosity, rather than dictators of how I should be driving at every second of the journey.

[OXYGEN]

I feel almost the same as you.

And for me the annoyance probably comes from the fact, that we are told how economical hybrids are. So I spend a lot of money for a brand new car, that has very sophisticated system and is supposed to have great mpg.

But it appears that this is only true if you change your driving habits and style. Otherwise the difference from my old regular petrol car is not that big.
And then comes also the thought, that if I just had kept that old car and tried driving it as one should drive hybrid, then I would have achieved also much better mpg...

Slightly feeling disappointment and being mislead to make wrong decision with the purchase...because of wrong expectations...

[AndrueC]

@timmon the blue bar is fairly easy to understand except when you start using it 🙂

It's supposed to be the amount of acceleration you should use if you want more power whilst optimising fuel consumption. Certainly if you can ensure that whenever you ask for more power you do so by getting the green line to be as long as the blue one you will maximise your acceleration score. And for the most part it makes sense since it generally encourages me to accelerate to just below the start of the PWR section. However sometimes it does some odd things.

Coming out of Brackley onto the A422 toward Banbury it will usually have the blue bar all the way to the PWR section as I go round the roundabout and that makes sense - if I want to accelerate at 30 mph it should be encouraging me to get my clog down whilst avoiding frittering away Battery power. However sometimes for no obvious reason the bar will be at the end of the EV section instead - implying that I should crawl away from the roundabout (something that you and I both know would not go down well in the morning commute!). Similarly exiting Farthinghoe sometimes it suggests 'full' acceleration other times it suggests just using EV mode. There seems no rhyme nor reason to it.

Then at other times it will seem to lead me up the gauge - so it starts barely past the end of EV and if I match it it moves a bit further and so on - as if it's trying to lead me on like a donkey with a carrot.

@OXYGEN if most of your driving is on the open road then a hybrid was never going to return spectacular fuel consumption. The entire premise of the technology is to recover wasted energy or to avoid running the ICE at low RPM where it isn't efficient. Any car driving at a steady 40 to 60 mph is already going to be efficient. There are a few things that a hybrid system can do to eke out a little lower fuel consumption but there really aren't many under those conditions. The Corolla has a lower ride height so that is probably one of the major factors. If you're the kind of driver that uses their brakes a lot then a hybrid system will reclaim some of that wasted energy but then you'd be better off simply not using your brakes if at all possible anyway (the way I've been driving for years).

Engine braking while going down hill is another source of energy but the hybrid system can't reclaim a great deal of that without slowing the car down too much. In fact several web sites point out that the most efficient way to go down a hill in a hybrid is to balance the accelerator so that it is neither charging, discharging and the ICE is off. That way you're conserving as much energy as possible. Of course this may not be possible in which case at least we can reclaim some of the lost energy but as with braking - it's second best to not wasting energy in the first place.

It's a shame if this is making you regret your purchase. But for me the Corolla is a lovely car to look at, a joy to drive, full of great toys (I love experimenting with the hybrid system) and a challenge to add to the many that make driving - for me - so much fun.

I never thought it would save me money (depreciation meant that was never a sensible hope) and frankly trading in a four year-old Honda Jazz for a brand new Corolla makes little environmental sense either. As it happens I am getting significantly better economy than I used to. What was your previous vehicle and what fuel consumption did it get?

 

[OXYGEN]

Well, I am not absolutely regretting the purchase. And I really like all other aspects of the car, especially the HUD, dynamic CC, Active lane assist, etc. Probably just slightly loosing the confidence of making a good decision...

Previous car was a Seat Leon FR 1.8TSI 2017 and I found a buyer for it at the end of the warranty. 
In the city there is definitely a good improvement to my mpg, but the motorway driving kind of eats it.

 I always use Spritmonitor app for all my cars and absolutely regularly populate my fillings. So my lifetime consumption of the Leon is just 11mpg lower than the Corolla. Of course one has almost 3 years of statistics, the other just a month...