MPG for 2.0l hatchback

[AndrueC]

I'm surprised that a 2.0 Corolla hybrid couldn't get better fuel consumption than your Seat Leon. However if you're driving both cars in a sporty way then that might the reason. If you are continually pushing your car such that it uses the Battery at high speed or when accelerating then you're definitely not going to get the best out of it. No car no matter how cleverly it is engineered can defy the laws of physics. If you want to accelerate a tonne or more of metal very fast and/or push it through the air at high speed it's going to require a lot of energy and you're going to consume a lot of fuel to extract that energy.

I have the 1.8 and I can get perfectly adequate levels of acceleration by avoiding pushing into the PWR band. That doesn't mean only using electric power but it does mean keeping the RPMs at or below 2,000 (the acceleration guidance screen is the best guide). I have never felt the need to utilise the Battery whilst accelerating and only occasionally call on it when I'm feeling a bit frisky or want to 'teach' someone that the reason I don't accelerate in built up areas is because it's a wasteful way to drive not because my car is lacking in power 🙂

A hybrid can offer significant fuel savings when driven in a way that allows it to. But if you drive it hard then you're going to burn a lot of fuel. That's the way the universe works 🙂

[OXYGEN]

Well, that’s the thing that bothers me.

99% of the time I am not driving “sporty”. With this or the previous car. In general my view and understanding of the need for power is to be able quickly to pass on dual carriage way and safely return in your lane. The less distance and time you need for this - the better.

Apart from that, I am not anymore at the age or the thinking of those “racers“ that need to prove themselves on every traffic light.

 

But unfortunately, even having in mind the above, I personally and everyone driving behind me, finds the acceleration up to the beginning of the PWR zone not sufficient...

Probably it’s a difference in culture, habits, etc in my country/that part of Europe....

So what I was trying to say was that if I was driving my Leon the way a hybrid needs to, I would achieve probably only a few mpg more with the Corolla. Because before the switch I was not trying to achieve better results compared to what I am doing now. In one case you drive as always did, in the other you put some effort and have the advantage of the hybrid, but expected difference is not that big in reality.

[OXYGEN]

Well, that’s the thing that bothers me.

99% of the time I am not driving “sporty”. With this or the previous car. In general my view and understanding of the need for power is to be able quickly to pass on dual carriage way and safely return in your lane. The less distance and time you need for this - the better.

Apart from that, I am not anymore at the age or the thinking of those “racers“ that need to prove themselves on every traffic light.

 

But unfortunately, even having in mind the above, I personally and everyone driving behind me, finds the acceleration up to the beginning of the PWR zone not sufficient...

Probably it’s a difference in culture, habits, etc in my country/that part of Europe....

So what I was trying to say was that if I was driving my Leon the way a hybrid needs to, I would achieve probably only a few mpg more with the Corolla. Because before the switch I was not trying to achieve better results compared to what I am doing now. In one case you drive as always did, in the other you put some effort and have the advantage of the hybrid, but expected difference is not that big.

[OXYGEN]

Ups, I wrote dual carriageway, but I meant a normal country road with a single lane for each direction. I am sorry for my English...

[Catlover]

When Toyota announced the new Corolla was going Hybrid but with a choice of two engines I was very interested to note that one, the 1.8, was 130bhp, and the other was 2.0 and 185bhp.   Individual choices, but to me the 1.8/130 is plenty powerful enough. The most powerful car I had in the past has been 150bhp diesel. 30 months ago I chose to go hybrid with Toyota, for both economy and low emissions (thinking of climate change/air pollution).   So, I thinking why have Toyota brought out a 2.0 hybrid producing 185bhp? I still don’t know Toyotas thoughts, but my own thought is that it will appeal to those who want a fast moving car, perhaps of a younger generation, perhaps having a job that requires them to travel many miles in a day, perhaps they live in a predominantly hilly area as opposed to a flat area........ must my thoughts really.    Whilst most reports from Corolla drivers indicate they getting mpg worse then Prius Gen4 (which has better aerodynamics),  There have been a few comments from Corolla owners that have indicated Toyota have managed to better mpg at higher speeds. I just can’t remember whether this has been from 1.8 or 2.0 engines. I suspect the 1.8 setup may be the same as the Prius, maybe with some mods they have developed, I don’t know.   But I can’t relate 2.0/185bhp power plant somehow being super economic, especially if used to its max potential of performance (not suggesting anyone doing that).  But, it’s always been the case that economy is related to use of the right foot, and if you want economy you need to be lighter with the right foot.  I am after economy, but I don’t hold people up on the roads (though keeping max speed limits in mind). I don’t travel 30mph in a 40 limit if it is safe to do 40.  Neither am I a sloth when moving away from traffic lights, but equally, I not intimidated if I have a Beemer or Jag behind me. I don’t have the need to streak away.  I rarely change the Eco-Normal-Sport buttons. I used to stay mostly in Eco, but during fine summer moved over to Normal mode. The difference I noted was Normal was more spritely, but that was lowered simply by less right foot pressure.... but proved useful to accelerate a bit more quicker when needed. Now winter I moved back to Eco - damper more slippy roads.  Sport mode I find useful on very busy roundabouts etc when you need to make a quick move when a gap appears in the traffic, or similar situations.  I find the on board computer manages situations very well, but I have had to train myself to drive differently then I used to, and I was eco minded then.  Hybrid, to me, is a compromise.... electric cars can be very sprightly, I think manufacturers do curtail performance for longer use before recharging, and that has to be wise at this moment in time.  Batteries are large and heavy, technology will reduce weight and reduce size that’s for sure. Until then life is a compromise. The hybrid concept I think is the best way to go at this moment, problem is there is still a big weight, the engine, under the bonnet, PLUS a large heavy Battery required, so compromise massively there too.     
Bottom line is..... if you want economy, you can get it from a hybrid, if you want power that is also available, there is a fine balance if you want both to its maximum potential.

[nielshm]

Oxygen, could you link to Spritmonitor, so we can see your old Leon? I thought the 1.8 from VW group was anything but economical. 

[shufman]

With the cold weather and more town driving, it’s settled about 46mpg .. I’m quite gentle but I drive to the speed limits - I think in winter that’s the best I can expect. The car is new though so it’ll probably edge to 50 with some miles. The Yaris did 50-53 in winter and 60 odd in the warmer months. 
 

I’ve always used Shell V Power in myYaris’s and that seems to help. Plus the engines always sound a bit quieter and content. 

[OXYGEN]

 

1 hour ago, nielshm said:

Oxygen, could you link to Spritmonitor, so we can see your old Leon? I thought the 1.8 from VW group was anything but economical. 

Sure.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/858176.html

[AndrueC]

Well @OXYGEN I'm disappointed in the 2.0 then but as @Catlover has said I've also been a bit puzzled by the existence of the 2.0. To me a hybrid is all about fuel efficiency in which case why would a company market a 'high performance' version?

I was initially somewhat disappointed in my 1.8 since the fuel consumption wasn't much better than my Jazz. But a combination of engine loosening and me learning how to best use the hybrid system has changed my mind. It would be interesting to know if I could get better fuel consumption if I returned to a Jazz but I don't think it would be a valid test. If I drove the Jazz the way I now drive the Corolla I'd be running in the Jazz engine in Atkinson mode and a 1.3l engine in Atkinson mode is painful.

As regards acceleration it may well be cultural. But like @Catlover I see no reason to drive like the herd. Most of the time I have no problems keeping up or pulling away from people even though I don't use the Battery to help. And if some impatient git in a BMW or Audi insists on driving on my rear bumper I either let them through (best place to have an idiot is in front where you can control the gap) or ignore them. 9.9 times out of ten speed and heavy acceleration doesn't gain you anything anyway. In the UK at least most journeys are less than half an hour and most time is lost in the urban part.

Time saved on the open road by overtaking is unlikely to be more than a minute. And it will generally be lost as soon as the overtaker hits the urban area. In fact the best way to save journey time is to know how to minimise stopping at roundabouts and understanding the best lanes to use if you have a choice. Interestingly both of these things tie in to fuel efficiency since it's all part of situational awareness and acceleration sense.

[nielshm]

4 hours ago, OXYGEN said:

 

Sure.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/858176.html

I don't get it. Your old Leon could do 40 mpg, 7,8 l/100 km. translates into 40 mpg, based on 3 years average consumption.  In a previous post you say, that your Corolla is 11 mpg worse??

That's only 29 mpg, and if that is the case, something is terrible wrong. That's like "pedal to the metal" mpg's. 

[OXYGEN]

32 minutes ago, nielshm said:

I don't get it. Your old Leon could do 40 mpg, 7,8 l/100 km. translates into 40 mpg, based on 3 years average consumption.  In a previous post you say, that your Corolla is 11 mpg worse??

That's only 29 mpg, and if that is the case, something is terrible wrong. That's like "pedal to the metal" mpg's. 

Sorry, I meant only 11mpg better with the Corolla. It’s 6.04 per 100 currently.

[TonyHSD]

Well if you get 10mpg on average more with the Corolla it’s ok and it is as a result of the hybrid system, both cars are very similar as power delivery at least on paper, Leon also is a turbo charged and with DSG tranny so will produce more torque and sense of faster acceleration similar to how diesels have that false sense that they are way faster than a petrol powered cars but in reality in many cases they are not. Imo 2.0 hybrid from Toyota is especially suitable for people who do more motorway miles and like faster driving , this is where larger engine size more horses will deliver better performance at the coast of lower mpg 5-10. But there is one important question here., will the 2.0 hybrid deliver the same performance and driving pleasure as a similar petrol or diesel only powered car? ,. hm probably not , and this is because of the drive train and how all those power from both ice and e motor is delivered to the wheels. However if you can sacrifice a little bit of dynamics and pleasure against little bit of extra mpg and reliability the 2.0 hybrid is a best choice of its times. 👍

[AndrueC]

Oh that 11 mpg better changes everything. Going from 40 mpg all weather average (worse than any car I've ever owned even my first BL Mini which drank almost as much oil per mile) to 50 mpg in winter (pretty good in my books) actually makes the HSD system sound very impressive.

You've apparently achieved a 25% improvement and that's hugely impressive. I've only managed 10% better and I wonder if it's because I was already driving efficiently so there was less the HSD could do for me. You appear to be a 'poster boy' for just how good HSD is. Once we're passed the horrors of winter I expect to return to ~60 mpg so you might be up at 55 mpg. That's nothing to complain about :)

[Timmon]

Why build a 2 ltr Hybrid? Well, why build a Formula 1 car that is Hybrid? Formula one car's were some of the first Hybrid cars, but not a surprise, as many family car improvements have come from Formula one developments. Hybrid in Formula One was introduced for exactly the same reason, to give performance but increased fuel economy. Now we see Formula E, and likewise, many fully electric family car improvements will come from Formula E.

I chose my 2 ltr as a step change from the car I was replacing it with, a 17 year old SAAB 2ltr turbo.I had that car from new.  As I saved for 17 years for my next new car, I looked at Mercedes 250 to spoil myself, but the sales experience was so poor, I decided to leave them to climb up their own bums!

In the back of my mind , I had been thinking of full electric, but at the time, I needed to go to Devon at a moments notice due to an ill family member, and could not cope with the stress of that, and having to find a charging point en route that worked.

So I investigated Toyota, and right at the moment the new Corolla was being launched. I bought on the day i visited the dealer. The sales experience was so much better than Mercedes, I did not hesitate to do the deal. I could only test drive the 1.8ltr, which was fine, but as I was used to the SAAB, and had waited a long time for a new car, and had budgeted for a Mercedes, I went for the 2ltr with all the trimmings. I am glad I did. The 2 ltr is highly impressive.

It may be a 2 ltr, but you don't need a smaller engine to make big fuel savings. Even in winter, I am achieving a saving of about 15 mpg compared to the SAAB, and in summer over 20mpg. It is nice to have the power when I want it, and the bigger electric motor can even get to 70 mph without assistance from the ICE, and without crawling up to speed either. 

So a 2ltr Hybrid very much fits into the Toyota range, as although it is less economical than a 1.8, it provides significant savings against similarly powered 2 ltr petrol engines. Plus it is a brand new 2ltr engine, which Toyota developed to be cutting edge with features developed by Formula one engineers.

For Toyota, it makes sense to have introduced 2 ltr, as it makes hybrid more attractive for a wider audience. By all accounts, despite the price difference between 1.8 and 2.0 they are selling well for Toyota.