The future of diesels?

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Hi guys,

A Toyota employee paid me a visit today, been friends for years, bless him, and he asked me...so Sam how’s the old Avensis...I replied great other than the Battery issue we discussed...he said Sam get rid...they’ve already banned diesel cars completely in a few towns within the U.K...how long before they roll it out countrywide...sell it while you can and buy a petrol.

Got my other half thinking that he’ll have to let go of his pride n joy one day! Imagine a country running on petrol and electric only. I wonder what would happen to the millions of diesel cars out there. 
 

I would have thought it would be more environmentally friendly to come up with a scheme of converting diesel cars to petrol...i.e swap out the engine...fuel tank...exhaust...and whatever else to replace them with petrol equivalents...is that even possible...hmmm...food for thought to me anyway!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Not quite accurate.

In November, Bristol was the first UK city to pass proposals where diesel cars will be banned from their proposed clean air zone between the hours of 7am to 3pm if it comes into force in 2021 - these are proposals at this stage and need to be be approved by central Government.

Clean air zones (CAZ) in Birmingham and Leeds were due to come into force in January, but have been delayed - Birmingham CAZ may begin in July 2020, but Leeds will be later than this. Both of these zones require that petrol cars not meeting Euro4 and diesel cars not meeting Euro6 will be required to pay a daily charge for travelling within the zone.

[Catlover]

Hi Sam, I decided 30 months ago to “off load” my Qashqai diesel for an Auris Hybrid. I really wanted a Prius (all Prius are Hybrid) so 6 months later I bought a Gen3 Prius, gave the Auris hybrid to the wife and sold her Yaris diesel.  So, two diesels passed on for two hybrid cars.   
6 months after getting the Gen3 Prius I decided I loved Prius hybrids so swooped the Gen3 for a Gen4,      
i extremely pleased knowing as wife and I drive around there is less pollutants going in the air, at the moment my Prius tells me I driving over 50% of the time on Battery, so no pollution for a lot of miles.  And the other benefit is more mpg.  Today, the outside temperature has gone into double figures, even tonight 12deg C, and tonight I got 73.8 mpg on a 18 mile return journey. That’s better then your Aygo (wife had a Citroen C1, same as Aygo).

Converting diesel cars to petrol will be a really expensive excercise IMO.  Sure I could see conversions done on a small scale by enthusiasts but large commercial scale - nope.

[yossarian247]

I wouldn't personally buy a diesel car new now, and our next car (replacing my petrol Auris) will very likely be a hybrid, but I've no plans to get rid of our 2012 Avensis diesel yet, and will probably keep it until it dies of natural causes.

As above, the proposals to ban diesels from certain cities are exactly that at the moment; proposals, and are apparently quite likely to get knocked back by central government. I don't personally ever drive in any large cities so it will likely be years before it affects me. Out in the sticks where I live the NOx and particulates from the few diesel cars are not really affecting anyone, and are dwarfed by those produced by all of the diesel tractors on the road!

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Interesting reading and has made my understanding much clearer on the situation so thank you once again...I'll brief my other half that he is okay to hold on to his pride n joy for another year or two lol. Just had his road tax renewal through yesterday at 145.00 so it hasnt increased...did make me wonder what band of diesel it is in though...is it in the higher tier of diesel pollutants?

[saxo265]

Not all older diesels fall victim to these ULEZ & LEZ  my 2009 2.2 T180 D CAT is exempt! 😉

[yossarian247]

1 hour ago, saxo265 said:

Not all older diesels fall victim to these ULEZ & LEZ  my 2009 2.2 T180 D CAT is exempt! 😉

Are you sure? I thought all pre-Euro 6 diesels were caught by the ULEZ?

The proposals in Bristol are that all private diesel engined cars will be banned, even brand new ones! 

 

Edit: I've checked the reg numbers of a few Avensis D CATs of various ages here: ULEZ checker and they all come back as being subject to the ULEZ charge.

[saxo265]

Yep, positive. Re checked this morning, exempt for B/ham, Leeds, London.

When I sell it will probably go to a taxi driver as i have already been asked by one! not that I will be selling any time soon tho'

[yossarian247]

1 minute ago, saxo265 said:

Yep, positive. Re checked this morning, exempt for B/ham, Leeds, London.

When I sell it will probably go to a taxi driver as i have already been asked by one! not that I will be selling any time soon tho'

TBH I think that may be an error on the checker as nothing diesel before Euro 6 should be exempt. 

[Gerg]

I can't see this happening I know, but, could it be that the 180 D-CAT is as clean as a Euro 6 (not that unlikely), and Toyota have re-submitted it for approval to the later Euro 6 values? (Very unlikely.)  The D-CAT was a NOx reduction system ahead of it's time!  Even if the mpg wasn't so good on account of it.

As an aside, I have a motorbike that is now Pollution-Charge liable in London by virtue of its age, as of this year.  But if I get it emissions tested at my expense (~£150+, I think), then apparently I can get it exempted if it passes with low enough values.  But that's all on an individual basis, obviously. 

[yossarian247]

12 minutes ago, Gerg said:

I can't see this happening I know, but, could it be that the 180 D-CAT is as clean as a Euro 6 (not that unlikely), and Toyota have re-submitted it for approval to the later Euro 6 values? (Very unlikely.)  The D-CAT was a NOx reduction system ahead of it's time!  Even if the mpg wasn't so good on account of it.

 

I got the reg numbers of half a dozen Avensis D-CATs, dating from 2009 to 2013, off Autotrader and ran them through the ULEZ checker and they all came back as being subject to the £12.50 charge. Unfortunately errors on the checker are not unknown and if it cant find the exact details from a reg number it sometimes says a vehicle is exempt when it isn't..

I think if Toyota could have got the D-CAT through the Euro 6 standards they probably would have stuck with it instead of going for BMW diesel engines in later years.

[saxo265]

Interesting but I can only go off the London/Birmingham ULEZ checkers & my car is exempt so quite happy, not that I will ever be driving in those zones!

[yossarian247]

How strange. Has the car ever had a registration number change/private plate as far as you know? 

[flash22]

2009 on would be a Euro 5 Engine so it will have a dpf

Diesel is all but dead, for consumer vehicles the emissions controls strangle the engines, with petrol/hybrid returning the same if not better MPG it doesn't make sense

Mazda has announced that its dropping it's ICE car's in favour for hybrid/BEV

[FROSTYBALLS]

14 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Mazda has announced that its dropping it's ICE car's in favour for hybrid/BEV

Mazda seem to be keeping diesel - https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/mazda-launch-innovative-diesel-engine-next-year

In the Mazda 3 hybrid, they used the Toyota Prius drivetrain.

[Catlover]

Interesting news.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Just checked our vehicle plate..

ULEZ applies £12.50 per day

But no LEZ applies 

Not that we head into those zones either!

[Gerg]

21 hours ago, yossarian247 said:

if Toyota could have got the D-CAT through the Euro 6 standards they probably would have stuck with it instead of going for BMW diesel engines

Of course you were right about the D-CAT engine not meeting Euro 6, but it's a close call.  Whilst tidying out some old junk a few days ago, I stumbled across some Toyota and Lexus brochures, amongst the many, that I still had from years back.

I just looked in the brochure at the Avensis 2008 D-CAT figures and they are quite impressive.  Although labeled a Euro 4, it easily met the Euro 5 limits that followed, and only missed the Euro 6 limit on NOx with 0.11 g/km against the required 0.08 g/km (Euro 5 was 0.18 g/km, Euro 4 was 0.25 g/km).  All the other measures are comfortably underneath the Euro 6 limits, so commendably low for the time.  

For the D-CAT Auris of the era it was 0.0867 g/km of NOx, says the brochure, so almost there....

Try to overlook any anorak-style interest I have in this - I used to occasionally visit the Johnson Matthey catalyst R&D facilities with my job.

[yossarian247]

35 minutes ago, Gerg said:

Of course you were right about the D-CAT engine not meeting Euro 6, but it's a close call.  Whilst tidying out some old junk a few days ago, I stumbled across some Toyota and Lexus brochures, amongst the many, that I still had from years back.

I just looked in the brochure at the Avensis 2008 D-CAT figures and they are quite impressive.  Although labeled a Euro 4, it easily met the Euro 5 limits that followed, and only missed the Euro 6 limit on NOx with 0.11 g/km against the required 0.08 g/km (Euro 5 was 0.18 g/km, Euro 4 was 0.25 g/km).  All the other measures are comfortably underneath the Euro 6 limits, so commendably low for the time.  

For the D-CAT Auris of the era it was 0.0867 g/km of NOx, says the brochure, so almost there....

Try to overlook any anorak-style interest I have in this - I used to occasionally visit the Johnson Matthey catalyst R&D facilities with my job.

A real shame that Toyota got so close and fell just short of the Euro 6 NOx limit. In that situation VW would have probably fiddled the figures!