2.0ltr Hybrid transmission info?

[superclarkey]

Just curious about what type of CVT comes in the MY2020 Corolla 2.0ltr Hybrid?

not owned a CVT before and I know there are many different types, belt, chain etc eCVT.

I noticed the vehicle (excel touring) can only pull 750kg so presume gearbox can’t handle much more, so got me interested.

I did a little google and several types are claimed to be in same car, so maybe different markets got different version etc? 

I saw online there was also paddle shifts on some, I presume we don’t have those in the uk models? 

Funny thing is the dealership had no idea, just “erm, CVT Mate” 😂 

please don’t just google it and post the first thing, someone that actually knows for a fact lol

thanks.

[flash22]

It's a eCVT part of the HSD system (planetary gear setup as the power is split 3 ways with a chain final drive) there are plenty of YouTube vids explaining how they work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/under-skin-latest-cvt-gearbox-technology

Edit. That's 450kg unbraked and 750kg braked according to the type approval for the estate

It all depends on the type approval if it capable of towing, The yaris hybrid isn't

PS. it's easier to post a link rather than explain a highly complex system

[superclarkey]

I actually understand how the systems work, I just didn’t know which type was fitted to the Corolla.

all it says on the sales information is “CVT” it doesn’t say what type.

[superclarkey]

The batteries Li-ion now? 

[flash22]

See the autocar link above its the HSD e-CVT

there is a recent thread on batteries 1.8 = Li-ion, 2.0 = Nicad and a big weight difference

[Gerg]

It is very simple, but a bit of a puzzle without a picture.

You could do worse than look at this animation:-

http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/PriusFrames.htm

Then select 'Understanding The Prius', then select 'The Power Split Device'.  It's an old site, but still relevant.

So no clutch of any description, no reverse gear (the electric motor just runs backwards), no complicated valves, pitot tubes or special oils.  No gears move in or out of mesh.

It's unusual.

[superclarkey]

14 minutes ago, flash22 said:

See the autocar link above its the HSD e-CVT

there is a recent thread on batteries 1.8 = Li-ion, 2.0 = Nicad and a big weight difference

Really? I asked the question when buying and I was happy that the car used Li-ion, really annoyed if it has Nicad batteries? Is the 10 year warranty still true?

they don’t have a clue what they are selling!!

 

[superclarkey]

24 minutes ago, Gerg said:

It is very simple, but a bit of a puzzle without a picture.

You could do worse than look at this animation:-

http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/PriusFrames.htm

Then select 'Understanding The Prius', then select 'The Power Split Device'.  It's an old site, but still relevant.

If its identical to the prius then I have changed the motor on one before so I know how that works!!

I thought the new boxes where better than old prius design.

[Gerg]

Ah, now I understand where your coming from!

Maybe this helps? - 

 

[superclarkey]

Am I being thick, I never remember finial drive chain... and I still can’t see it in that video?

i only skimmed through it but ai can see its gear driven.

[Gerg]

I know the Gen 2 Prius had a drive chain, the Gen 3 Prius (so Auris too) dropped the chain. The Gen 4 (which yours must be very closely related to), has gone to a 2-shaft design for compactness, I seem to remember reading, somewhere.  I had an idea that they were geared.  I did look at some of these Weber videos, but it was a while back!

I seem to think that the 2-shaft design gave extra scope for incorporating MGs with higher rotational speeds, so the car could run faster on EV etc.

The batteries are NiMH.  As someone said on a recent thread, better cold performance.

[Devon Aygo]

The 2.0 Hybrid is fitted with a P711 type transaxle:

HYBRID TRANSAXLE SYSTEM GENERAL GENERAL

1. OUTLINE

   1. A P711 hybrid vehicle transaxle is used.

   2. Containing the motor (MG2) for driving the vehicle and generator (MG1) for generating electrical power, this transaxle uses a continuously variable transmission mechanism with a compound gear unit that achieves smooth and quiet operation.

   3. This hybrid vehicle transaxle assembly consists primarily of a generator (MG1), motor (MG2), power split planetary gear unit, counter gear, final gear, differential gear unit and oil pump.

   4. By utilizing a pluriaxial configuration for the generator (MG1) and the motor (MG2), the overall length of the transaxle has been shortened. A compound gear that consists of the ring gear of the power split planetary gear, counter drive gear and parking lock gear is utilized to drastically reduce size and weight. By using high accuracy machining for the gear tooth surfaces, low-loss bearings and an oil sling type lubrication mechanism, driving losses have been reduced resulting in improved fuel economy and reduced noise.

   5. This transaxle has a 4-shaft configuration. The power split planetary gear unit, an oil pump and generator (MG1) are provided on the main shaft. The MG2 reduction gear and motor (MG2) are provided on the 2nd shaft. The counter driven gear and the final drive gear are provided on the 3rd shaft. The final driven gear and the differential gear unit are provided on the 4th shaft.

   6. A differential pre-torque mechanism is used. Straightline stability and acceleration performance during periods of low load and low differential rotation when the vehicle is being driven normally are ensured.

   7. Lubrication for each gear is performed via the trochoid oil pump of the main shaft and final driven gear slinging up ATF. Through the use of a lubrication structure (oil sling type lubrication method) in which the gears sling up ATF, reduction of oil pump drive loss and enhanced transmission efficiency of the powertrain system have been achieved. Also, a water-cooled type oil cooler which optimizes the flow of ATF is used to achieve high cooling performance, resulting in a high efficiency and high output powertrain.

      

      *1	Generator (MG1)	*2	Oil Pump
      *3	Motor (MG2)	*4	Final Driven Gear
      *5	MG2 Reduction Gear	*6	Final Drive Gear
      *7	Counter Driven Gear	*8	Planetary Ring Gear
      *9	Power Split Planetary Gear Unit	*10	Counter Drive Gear
      *11	Parking Lock Gear	-	-
      *a	Main Shaft	*b	3rd Shaft
      *c	2nd Shaft	*d	4th Shaft
      *e	Differential Gear Unit	*f	Compound Gear

2. SPECIFICATION

   Item		Specification
   Transaxle Type		P711
   Shift Position		P / R / N / D / S
   Power Split Planetary Gear Unit	No. of Sun Gear Teeth	30
   	No. of Pinion Gear Teeth	23
   	No. of Ring Gear Teeth	78
   MG2 Reduction Gear	No. of Drive Gear Teeth	16
   	No. of Driven Gear Teeth	49
   Counter Gear	No. of Drive Gear Teeth	53
   	No. of Driven Gear Teeth	49
   Final Gear	No. of Drive Gear Teeth	22
   	No. of Driven Gear Teeth	76
   Total Speed Reduction Ratio*1		3.193
   Fluid Type		Toyota Genuine ATF WS
   Fluid Capacity	Liters (US qts, Imp. qts)	3.8 (4.0, 3.3)
   Weight (Reference)*2	kg (lb)	96.7 (213.2)

   *1: The ratio of the combination of the counter and final gears.

   *2: Weight shows the figure with the fluid fully filled.

HYBRID TRANSAXLE SYSTEM CONTROL SEQUENTIAL SHIFT

1. FUNCTION

   1. The sequential shiftmatic system enables the driver to select an appropriate shift range among 6 stages of engine braking force by operating the shift lever or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly). By controlling the engine, generator (MG1) and motor (MG2), this system improves the generation response of the engine braking force. In addition, the engine speed is controlled to maintain high speeds, enhancing acceleration response when the driver depresses the accelerator pedal.

   2. By moving the shift lever to S, the automatic shifting mode will be switched to shift range selecting mode. By operating the shift lever or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly), driving in the shift range selected by the driver is possible, and the accelerator pedal characteristics and acceleration response can be selected.

   3. Performing a "-" (downshift) operation with the shift paddle changes the system to a temporary shift range selecting mode when the shift lever is in D. By operating the shift paddle in the same way as when in S, shift range selection is possible even in D. As a result, the level of engine braking force can be selected by operating the shift paddle without the need to remove hands from the steering wheel while driving.

   4. In shift range selecting mode, when low shift range is selected, the engine braking force becomes greater during deceleration and the motive force between the accelerator intermediate and fully open range becomes greater during acceleration.

      Table 1. Acceleration Characteristics when in Sequential Shiftmatic Mode

      Shift Range	Characteristics
      Low Shift Range	Change in the driving force output between when the accelerator pedal is intermediately depressed and the fully depressed position is increased, improving the vehicle response to the driver's pedal operation.
      High Shift Range	Change in the driving force output in accordance with changes in the accelerator pedal depression amount is decreased more than normal, thus enhancing accelerator control making it easy to maintain the vehicle speed during constant-speed cruising.

      Tip:

      The sequential shiftmatic system does not indicate that maximum vehicle speed and maximum motion performance have been improved. Also, when the shift lever is moved to S, accelerator characteristics in drive mode (Sport*1, Sport S/S+*2 and Eco) are disabled.

      *1: Models without adaptive variable suspension system

      *2: Models with adaptive variable suspension system

   5. An S mode position signal is output from the transmission control switch to the hybrid vehicle control ECU when the shift lever is moved from D to S. Then, the system switches to shift range selecting mode in order to enable shift range switching operation using the shift lever or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly).

   6. By performing a "-" (downshift) operation with the shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly) when driving with the shift lever in D, a shift-down signal is output from the shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly) to the hybrid vehicle control ECU the sequential shiftmatic system switches to the temporary shift range selecting mode, which makes it possible to perform shift range selection even with the shift paddle in D.

   7. In shift range selecting mode, by performing a "+" (upshift) or "-" (downshift) operation using the shift lever or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly), a shift-up signal or shift-down signal is output from the transmission control switch or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly) to the hybrid vehicle control ECU, and the shift range is changed. While using the selected shift range as the upper limit, an optimal shift point is automatically selected in accordance with driving conditions.

      

   8. Holding the shift lever to "+" (upshift) in S will change the shift range to the S6 range regardless of the current shift range (S1 to S5).

   9. In order to protect the transaxle, when accelerating while any range between the S1 range and the S4 range is selected in shift range selecting mode, sequential upshifts are automatically performed up to the S5 range by exceeding a predetermined vehicle speed in each shift range.

   10. The temporary shift range selecting mode with the shift lever in D is canceled in the following conditions:

       • The "+" (upshift) side shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly) has been operated for a certain period of time.

       • The accelerator pedal has been depressed and held for a certain period of time in the same shift range.

       • The vehicle has stopped.

       • The shift lever is moved to any position other than D.*

         Tip:

         *: When the shift lever is moved to S, the system changes to the S position shift range selecting mode.

   11. Limitations Regarding The Sequential Shiftmatic System

       1. Upon receiving a downshifting request issued by the driver through the operation of the shift lever or shift paddle switch (transmission shift switch assembly), this system limits the changing of the shift range if the vehicle speed exceeds the limit speed, and informs the driver by sounding the buzzer in the combination meter assembly.

          Table 2. Limit Speed for Downshifting

          Downshift Request	Limit Speed (Reference Value)
          6 → 5	-
          5 → 4	160 km/h (99 mph)
          4 → 3	119 km/h (74 mph)
          3 → 2	85 km/h (53 mph)
          2 → 1	47 km/h (29 mph)

[superclarkey]

You can see my point that there seems to be different info everywhere you look...  can’t wait to get the car on the ramp and actually look at what stuff is ACTUALLY on it.

I’m normally very good at googling stuff but the amount of different info is crazy. LoL 

 

[superclarkey]

I presume the P711 doesn’t come with these shifters? 
 

at last a part number/code to look up 🙂 is info defo for the 2.0 hybrid in the uk? 

[Devon Aygo]

As far as I'm aware all 2.0 Hybrid have Paddle shifters

[Wheresmywig]

No chain on the latest hybrid systems. Power is now fed through a series of final drive gears. 

[superclarkey]

I didn’t think there was a chain, but flash mentioned it.

[Catlover]

No chain in my Prius.

[flash22]

Yes I was thinking of the earlier e-cvt, Nicad was a pebkac i meant ni-mh - technology moves on hence why there is a truck load of information

Well at least its not a push belt design

[Timmon]

On 12/12/2019 at 8:33 PM, superclarkey said:

Really? I asked the question when buying and I was happy that the car used Li-ion, really annoyed if it has Nicad batteries? Is the 10 year warranty still true?

they don’t have a clue what they are selling!!

 

Yes, the 2.0 has Ni Cad not Lion and the same Battery warranty applies. I think it is to do with the more powerful electric motor. The batteries are capable of retaining more power, but are bigger and heavier, which is part of the reason why mpg is less.

I share your frustration on specs as there is much conflicting info out there, as many countries use different specs. I thought my car was coming with a CVT that incorporated a  fixed launch gear, but in the UK the CVT does not have this. That spec is for the USA. Then someone from the USA said I could not have a panoramic roof with 2ltr, but that applies to the USA not UK, etc, etc. I think the restriction on towing weight is due to belt driven CVT (that is what I was told by the dealer) if you want to toe a caravan, you need the 1.2 ltr manual transmission.

[TonyHSD]

No driven belt in ecvt transmission, US version with physical first gear is a standard cvt with belt and pulley and specifically for 2.0 petrol dynamic force engine. In the Uk 2.0 hybrid variant comes with pedal shifters at leats for the highest excell trim, don’t think they very useful because it is all artificial and in real world doesn’t help much. Specs are so different for the different regions, saloon for example bought from Ireland comes with a lot more toys that the ones sold in UK, estates in Europe higher trims comes with 18” wheels too, list goes on and on. Yes sales persons and auto journalists  most of the time has no idea what are they talking about and mislead many people, best to do a homework yourself before visiting dealer ships. 

[OXYGEN]

Yes, mine is 2.0 highest possible spec for my country with 18 wheels, sunroof and paddle shifters, but I don’t have BSM or electric tailgate. Not possible to pay extra for them, they just don’t offer such extras.

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 12/14/2019 at 6:37 PM, Timmon said:

...... if you want to toe a caravan, you need the 1.2 ltr manual transmission.

The 1.2T has been dropped from the Corolla and C-HR 2020 ranges for the UK.

[superclarkey]

I’m glad its not just me that is frustrated by specs and knowing what your actually getting!!

I’m happy that electric tailgate will be included but very angry at the lack of top spec wheels, naughty really just to get it through emissions!!

guess I won’t ever truly know what I have until it arrives and I go looking.

Toyota lost my money last time when I pre-ordered a Hilux for work, wanted the 2.8ltr diesel for towing 3500kg, then decided uk only gets 2.4ltr and 3200kg capacity... constantly short changing us!!

I do think the Corolla is over priced, and I got 8.96% off the car (£2900) which made it with options £29,750ish much more I would have bought a Tesla 😂 

[OXYGEN]

Totally agree with you.

 My experience was exactly the same. I was told, and read in the dealer brochures, that I get “everything possible” and specifically BSM. But when the car was delivered, it appeared there are several missing options.

At least for compensation they gave me lots of interior and exterior accessories.

But if it was possible, I would happily trade my 18 wheels for electric tailgate or BSM. Seems much more useful to me.