Rav4 plug-in - more detail

[Rav Rob]

12 hours ago, PeteB said:

I was tempted by 6the Outlander until I saw it had no spare wheel.  I liked the steering wheel paddles that changed the regen braking force.

The RAV4 Prime in the USA is the only PHEV I know of that has a spare wheel, and it will be interesting to see if the UK gets one when the car arrives here (current estimates next spring). 

I was surprised to hear from Kenth that the RAV4 PHEV in Sweden didn't get a spare.

It should have one no excuse, the only reason they left it off some UK ones being weight with the glass roof and trying to keep to the CO2 rating. On the PHEV the weight is irrelevant as intrinsically a PHEV waltzes through CO2 tests whatever. It amazes me they do still manage to make room for one, chassis designed for it from scratch.

The Outlander has a bodged up carry over ICE chassis, the auxiliary 12V Battery was sunk in a hasty added well, cut into the boot floor that removed some of the trim fixing points so they just left it to wobble about! it removed any chance of a spare. If you looked below the car behind the rear bumper there was a vast wasted space the boot level could have been so much deeper. If the chassis had been truly designed for a PHEV version it could have been done so much better. Toyota has been able to do this so it is a clever chassis.

I am wondering how the ride will be affected, the RAV is a absolutely brilliant motorway car, it rides so well, PHEV's have to stiffen the suspension for the weight so hopefully not spoilt it too much. Also the RAV isn't the keenest SUV for changing direction, the extra weight could make it more reluctant. 

[PeteB]

I'm actually delighted that I've got a full size, matching alloy spare that fits nicely under the boot floor (I wouldn't have a glass roof anyway).  Would have been nice if it had been an extra cost option, then I wouldn't have a £400 space saver gathering dust in my garage.

A number of YouTube reviewers in the US have said the handling of the PHEV (Prime to them) is still pretty good (long as you're not expecting it to be a sports car!), but it does get 19" wheels that are also wider than ours, so no room for a full size one in the spare wheel well, but a space saver is vastly better than gunge (IMHO).

[Rav Rob]

4 minutes ago, PeteB said:

I'm actually delighted that I've got a full size, matching alloy spare that fits nicely under the boot floor (I wouldn't have a glass roof anyway).  Would have been nice if it had been an extra cost option, then I wouldn't have a £400 space saver gathering dust in my garage.

A number of YouTube reviewers in the US have said the handling of the PHEV (Prime to them) is still pretty good (long as you're not expecting it to be a sports car!), but it does get 19" wheels that are also wider than ours, so no room for a full size one in the spare wheel well, but a space saver is vastly better than gunge (IMHO).

Yes and the Autocar review seems to have no gripes either.

The good thing about the Outlander was the weight affect on the motorway, it felt like a train! rock solid on the road, invincible.

The bad side was when we had snow, when it slides there is no stopping it! The tyres had the same limited grip on snow/ice as any car does but are being asked to hold back another half ton, I had some really very scary moments. Fortunately we don't get too much of that kind of weather these days, but I would seriously consider switching to Winter tyres during that time on a PHEV.

[VeryRAV4]

I'm on my second Excel hybrid (1 Mk4 + 1 Mk 5) and have to admit that initially I was looking forward to the PHEV. However, following the delays and now with the expected price tag of £46K-plus, I have reset my expectations and expect to keep my June 2019 XA50 for many years. I don't think I am going to miss much. I already get 600 miles to a tank, my average mpg since May has been between 58 and 62 mpg and my fuel cost per mile is therefore firmly anchored sub-10p. Even if I did ALL my driving on Battery, the cost of electricity would still work out at 6 pence per mile. Ok, so it might stretch the range by 40 or so miles, but I already have more miles available from the 55 litre tank of the standard HEV than I can cope with in one journey. A 4 pence per mile fuel saving would never pay for the additional cost of the car on the mileage I do. 0 to 100 km in 6 seconds? Impressive. But I've got too much grey hair to find that stimulating. I can just about hang on to the current version in Sport mode! I see the need for the vehicle, don't get me wrong. But when you already drive the most advanced power-split hybrid SUV on the market, the incremental cost, in my humble opinion, is impossible to justify. Very willing to be persuaded out of this position...

[HSDish]

17 minutes ago, VeryRAV4 said:

I'm on my second Excel hybrid (1 Mk4 + 1 Mk 5) and have to admit that initially I was looking forward to the PHEV. However, following the delays and now with the expected price tag of £46K-plus, I have reset my expectations and expect to keep my June 2019 XA50 for many years. I don't think I am going to miss much. I already get 600 miles to a tank, my average mpg since May has been between 58 and 62 mpg and my fuel cost per mile is therefore firmly anchored sub-10p. Even if I did ALL my driving on battery, the cost of electricity would still work out at 6 pence per mile. Ok, so it might stretch the range by 40 or so miles, but I already have more miles available from the 55 litre tank of the standard HEV than I can cope with in one journey. A 4 pence per mile fuel saving would never pay for the additional cost of the car on the mileage I do. 0 to 100 km in 6 seconds? Impressive. But I've got too much grey hair to find that stimulating. I can just about hang on to the current version in Sport mode! I see the need for the vehicle, don't get me wrong. But when you already drive the most advanced power-split hybrid SUV on the market, the incremental cost, in my humble opinion, is impossible to justify. Very willing to be persuaded out of this position...

I don't thiln You will be persuaded, and that's probably with all rights.

58-62 mpg sounds very good to me. Do check at fuelpump or at cars coumputer?

I’m living in, quite cold Sweden and I got an Prius+ 2017 which I’ve driven (quite gently, though) for about 22 months now (all seasons and with whinter tyres) and I'm averaging 5.1 L/ 100 km (about 55.39mpg I think) mixed driving,  when I checked regulary at fuelpump and according to my Fuelio app. (car computer says even a bit better).

[182_blue]

1 hour ago, VeryRAV4 said:

I'm on my second Excel hybrid (1 Mk4 + 1 Mk 5) and have to admit that initially I was looking forward to the PHEV. However, following the delays and now with the expected price tag of £46K-plus, I have reset my expectations and expect to keep my June 2019 XA50 for many years. I don't think I am going to miss much. I already get 600 miles to a tank, my average mpg since May has been between 58 and 62 mpg and my fuel cost per mile is therefore firmly anchored sub-10p. Even if I did ALL my driving on battery, the cost of electricity would still work out at 6 pence per mile. Ok, so it might stretch the range by 40 or so miles, but I already have more miles available from the 55 litre tank of the standard HEV than I can cope with in one journey. A 4 pence per mile fuel saving would never pay for the additional cost of the car on the mileage I do. 0 to 100 km in 6 seconds? Impressive. But I've got too much grey hair to find that stimulating. I can just about hang on to the current version in Sport mode! I see the need for the vehicle, don't get me wrong. But when you already drive the most advanced power-split hybrid SUV on the market, the incremental cost, in my humble opinion, is impossible to justify. Very willing to be persuaded out of this position...

Initially I was wondering if I should have waited for the PHEV but the extra 16k plus it would have cost just didn't make any sense!, not to mention the near £500 a year road tax it will cost! 

[Rav Rob]

3 hours ago, VeryRAV4 said:

I'm on my second Excel hybrid (1 Mk4 + 1 Mk 5) and have to admit that initially I was looking forward to the PHEV. However, following the delays and now with the expected price tag of £46K-plus, I have reset my expectations and expect to keep my June 2019 XA50 for many years. I don't think I am going to miss much. I already get 600 miles to a tank, my average mpg since May has been between 58 and 62 mpg and my fuel cost per mile is therefore firmly anchored sub-10p. Even if I did ALL my driving on battery, the cost of electricity would still work out at 6 pence per mile. Ok, so it might stretch the range by 40 or so miles, but I already have more miles available from the 55 litre tank of the standard HEV than I can cope with in one journey. A 4 pence per mile fuel saving would never pay for the additional cost of the car on the mileage I do. 0 to 100 km in 6 seconds? Impressive. But I've got too much grey hair to find that stimulating. I can just about hang on to the current version in Sport mode! I see the need for the vehicle, don't get me wrong. But when you already drive the most advanced power-split hybrid SUV on the market, the incremental cost, in my humble opinion, is impossible to justify. Very willing to be persuaded out of this position...

I wouldn't even try and persuade you as its not designed for you.

Its designed for people like me to lease as a company car, being over 2.0, unlike most other PHEVs, I would get reimbursed 17p per mile by my employer so would only need to average a comfortable 28mpg to not be out of pocket and infact as long as I better that, I even make a small tax free profit. If I had one of the German PHEV's which are all sub 2.0 I would only get 12p a mile so would have to keep over 40mpg over all distances to break even, not much fun as PHEVs are heavy so it means feather footed driving.

Compared to a regular SUV like a Discovery Sport that costs about the same even in base trim, over a 3 year lease the RAV PHEV could save me £10,000 in company car tax back into my pocket.

When I am home in the evening and weekends myself and my wife can run around locally using just electrical power far cheaper than petrol.

So unless your in this specific boat, you very much are better off with the regular car. enjoy!

[VeryRAV4]

3 hours ago, HSDish said:

I don't thiln You will be persuaded, and that's probably with all rights.

58-62 mpg sounds very good to me. Do check at fuelpump or at cars coumputer?

I’m living in, quite cold Sweden and I got an Prius+ 2017 which I’ve driven (quite gently, though) for about 22 months now (all seasons and with whinter tyres) and I'm averaging 5.1 L/ 100 km (about 55.39mpg I think) mixed driving,  when I checked regulary at fuelpump and according to my Fuelio app. (car computer says even a bit better).

I exaggerated, those figures are from the computer, so multiply by 98.5% (error when checked tankful to tankful averages 1.5%). Attachments below show 1) 15 minutes driving around a small city, 2) all my tanks of petrol since May 2020 and 3) one exceptional drive from Northampton to Surrey, 110 miles of fairly clear M1-M25-A3 and 10 miles of B roads. There must have been a following wind on that one. People who don't understand the efficiency of a power-split hybrid assume, I think, that I am making up the numbers or somehow deluding myself. Not so much on this forum, I expect.

[VeryRAV4]

36 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

I wouldn't even try and persuade you as its not designed for you.

Its designed for people like me to lease as a company car, being over 2.0, unlike most other PHEVs, I would get reimbursed 17p per mile by my employer so would only need to average a comfortable 28mpg to not be out of pocket and infact as long as I better that, I even make a small tax free profit. If I had one of the German PHEV's which are all sub 2.0 I would only get 12p a mile so would have to keep over 40mpg over all distances to break even, not much fun as PHEVs are heavy so it means feather footed driving.

Compared to a regular SUV like a Discovery Sport that costs about the same even in base trim, over a 3 year lease the RAV PHEV could save me £10,000 in company car tax back into my pocket.

When I am home in the evening and weekends myself and my wife can run around locally using just electrical power far cheaper than petrol.

So unless your in this specific boat, you very much are better off with the regular car. enjoy!

You too! That sounds like a triple win for P11D drivers. I have to laugh inwardly when I read about the Land Rovers. Yet again JLR got caught lying about its emissions and the EV range for its long-awaited p300e. It sounds as though the early adopters are getting about 30 miles of EV, but then they run straight into the brick wall of 2.2T SUV pulled around by its front wheels by a 1500 cc 3 cylinder turbo engine. There's no wonder they're reporting 20-30 mpg once the Battery has gone. Regeneration? In their dreams. 

[Rav Rob]

5 minutes ago, VeryRAV4 said:

You too! That sounds like a triple win for P11D drivers. I have to laugh inwardly when I read about the Land Rovers. Yet again JLR got caught lying about its emissions and the EV range for its long-awaited p300e. It sounds as though the early adopters are getting about 30 miles of EV, but then they run straight into the brick wall of 2.2T SUV pulled around by its front wheels by a 1500 cc 3 cylinder turbo engine. There's no wonder they're reporting 20-30 mpg once the battery has gone. Regeneration? In their dreams. 

Haha! Land Rover would be catastrophic for me, I would lose money every mile I drive for doing my job. Also the Across/Rav is pretty fully specced as standard. The LR starts at the same price and then you would have to hit the extortionate extras to get a car as well equipped, say goodbye £50,000+

And LR actually stands for Loves Recovery (trucks) too!

[robo1]

Just received an email from Toyota with further details about the new plug in RAV. https://www.toyota.co.uk/world-of-toyota/stories-news-events/2019/all-new-rav4-plugin?Category=PHEV&Customer=1642255&CampaignID=C8065&BrochureRCode=RC119177&TestdriveRCode=RC119178&SLVariant=SL1&utm_campaign=RAV4PHEVAnnouncementNov20&utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=email&utm_content=1SL1
 

Just love the marketing Pitch in the email ‘ Furthermore, the price is just as exciting. RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid Dynamic starts from £47,395, with the RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid Dynamic Premium from £50,895’

[crazydog]

Just received the same e-mail. At these prices, I'm out !!

[Terry10]

Silly money and a lot more than the Suzuki.

 

 

[182_blue]

WOW!!!!, approx £17000 more than my new excel cost me, that's alot of fuel to save before making any saving, probably about 100 years in my case!!!! 

[IanML]

They charge what they think the market will bear, and I would say they are not interested in maximising sales of PHEVs at the expense of HEVs.

As Rav Rob pointed out, the high cost is being subsidised by employers and government.

[MrNuts]

Ouch!

In my opinion, who needs 300hp? I want what I have power wise and a plug in option for TAX.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-la-motor-show/toyota-rav4-plug-hybrid-302bhp-phev-priced-£47395

[philip42h]

8 hours ago, MrNuts said:

Ouch!

In my opinion, who needs 300hp? I want what I have power wise and a plug in option for TAX.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-la-motor-show/toyota-rav4-plug-hybrid-302bhp-phev-priced-£47395

Volvo describe their PHEV offerings as "twin engine" - I'm not trying to compare technologies or prices but that term is perhaps useful. The RAV4 PHEV has a 180 bhp electric motor driving the front wheels while the Battery is charged and the car is running as an EV, and a 173 bhp petrol engine, also driving the front wheels, for use once the Battery is depleted (and a 54 bhp electric motor to help out at the rear). So while you can floor the accelerator to get access to the full 300 bhp, a moderate driver will tend to use one of the more modest 173 / 180 bhp engines available.

As for price, list price for a Dynamic AWD-i is from £38,270; list price for a Dynamic PHEV is from £47,395 - so the price for PHEVness seems to be around £9,125 ...

As much as I'd like one, I couldn't afford to pay that much more to get an Excel PHEV even if Toyota UK were to decide to make one available. So for now I'm glad that I didn't wait and am very happy with what I have. Maybe I'll win the lottery ... 🙂

[Rav Rob]

Makes the Suzuki look a good deal as its fully spec'd for the £45K. I will find out mid next year when the company car quoting system is open to me to see how the discounts/residuals affect the lease cost.

Otherwise its possibly a Kuga PHEV for me, an ST line with the drivers aids pack and winter pack has all you could want for £38K. (once they cure the burning Battery!)

Another one I may have as a choice by then is the new Hyundai Tucson which is coming in hybrid and PHEV, its pretty marmite on the outside but the inside is superb, a match for anything German and its loaded with new tech.  Can't imagine it will cost £47K - £50K either. I like the RAV but no way my company will stretch to those price.

[MrNuts]

13 hours ago, Rav Rob said:

Makes the Suzuki look a good deal as its fully spec'd for the £45K. I will find out mid next year when the company car quoting system is open to me to see how the discounts/residuals affect the lease cost.

Otherwise its possibly a Kuga PHEV for me, an ST line with the drivers aids pack and winter pack has all you could want for £38K. (once they cure the burning battery!)

Another one I may have as a choice by then is the new Hyundai Tucson which is coming in hybrid and PHEV, its pretty marmite on the outside but the inside is superb, a match for anything German and its loaded with new tech.  Can't imagine it will cost £47K - £50K either. I like the RAV but no way my company will stretch to those price.

I'm in the same boat as you, due Oct 2022, the Kuga is a good option as the engine is 2.5 like my RAV and i claim fuel using HMRC rates, so winner as opposed to VW offerings using a 1.4l engine. so 17p per mile vs 11p per mile, make a huge difference.

[Rav Rob]

4 hours ago, MrNuts said:

I'm in the same boat as you, due Oct 2022, the Kuga is a good option as the engine is 2.5 like my RAV and i claim fuel using HMRC rates, so winner as opposed to VW offerings using a 1.4l engine. so 17p per mile vs 11p per mile, make a huge difference.

Ditto! also on HMRC rates, so below 2.0 = 40+ mpg break even, above 2.0 = 28 mpg break even. Having run a PHEV before, the lower rate is hard to live with so it excludes virtually all German, Swedish and British (Indian!) PHEVs.

No point saving lots of tax if you run the risk of being out of pocket on fuel reimbursements doing your job which is why this time I went for the RAV4.

My company also sets a 130g/km ceiling on petrol cars and under WLTP only the 2WD 'poverty' RAV model in MY2021 scrapes under that so no more RAV4 for me I am afraid.

Kuga non plug-in hybrid is 130 in highish ST-Line and you can add packs to upgrade it more, or of course the PHEV is an option. I suspect the 2021 Tucson hybrid will be in limit too.

[2bikes]

Apparently the RAV 4 prime has failed the moose  test !! confirmed by Toyota them selves when they repeated it ,you  thought they would have learnt from last time .A fix is coming say Toyota. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

.... as did the Mitsubishi Outlander Plug in (hardly a new model) and the Volvo XC40 Recharge T4.

[182_blue]

3 hours ago, 2bikes said:

Apparently the RAV 4 prime has failed the moose  test !! confirmed by Toyota them selves when they repeated it ,you  thought they would have learnt from last time .A fix is coming say Toyota. 

I cant remember the last time I saw a moose in Nottingham 😂

[2bikes]

21 hours ago, 182_blue said:

I cant remember the last time I saw a moose in Nottingham 😂

Substitute moose with knob head cyclist with no lights in the uk 😏the test still stands .

[182_blue]

15 minutes ago, 2bikes said:

Substitute moose with knob head cyclist with no lights in the uk 😏the test still stands .

I can't say I care about such people.