Prius PHEV 2015 (gen1) / VS / Prius PHEV 2017 (gen 2) ?

[HSDish]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:03 PM, Ten Ninety said:

Whilst it would obviously go a lot further than your Gen1, given that (if I recall correctly) you live in Sweden, I'd say getting 50km from a charge would be a very rare occasion. Based on my experience, the outside temp needs to be at least 14-15 degrees to get near that, and that's with committed eco-driving at speeds below 60mph.

Range falls off as the temperature drops, dramatically so once it's below 10 degrees. Once it goes below 3-4 degrees, range won't be above 20 miles. 15-16 miles is probably the best you might get once below zero.

It is possible to heat the car without the engine but, as already mentioned, the ICE kicks in if you push the front demist button. You can pre-heat when plugged in, but for some unfathomable reason the pre-heat function fogs up the inside because it doesn't activate the dehumidifying part of the air con! It clears slowly once you push Start, but if you need to get going quickly you'll need the ICE running.

What trim level does Your gen 2 has? Do You use 15" wheels (winter tyres?) ? Do You know if there's any "comfort" ( ie are "lether" more up bolstered/softer) differences between "leather" and fabric seats in gen 2?  

[HSDish]

54 minutes ago, HSDish said:

In Sweden You have to use winter tyres from about dec- march , if it's " winter state of the road"( freeze) and it is now and then. Not so much this year though

Got these winter/friction tyres on our Prius 2015 PHEV -

Goodyear ultragrip Ice 2  195/65 R 15 95T XL

Quite easy rolling .

EU code ..

Roll – C

Wet – E

Sound – 65 db

[Ten Ninety]

1 hour ago, HSDish said:

What trim level does Your gen 2 has? Do You use 15" wheels (winter tyres?) ? Do You know if there's any "comfort" ( ie are "lether" more up bolstered/softer) differences between "leather" and fabric seats in gen 2?  

Mine is an Excel, on 15" wheels with Bridgestone Ecopia summer tyres running at 39psi. I did sit in a Business Edition and I believe the leather seats are exactly the same as the fabric covered ones - both rather too hard for my liking, and lacking adjustment.

If you're comparing range, it's probably worth noting that I have the seat heater permanently on the Low setting and the temperature set to 23 degrees. That's warmer than many people would choose, and would go some way to explaining the extreme difference between my winter and summer ranges. If you're prepared to run in less balmy conditions than I prefer, you'll go further. That may be offset slightly by the fact that my car's used for very little other than communting, so I'm invariably on my own and rarely carrying any extra baggage. Not that my wife would appreciate being referred to as such!

[HSDish]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

Mine is an Excel, on 15" wheels with Bridgestone Ecopia summer tyres running at 39psi. I did sit in a Business Edition and I believe the leather seats are exactly the same as the fabric covered ones - both rather too hard for my liking, and lacking adjustment.

If you're comparing range, it's probably worth noting that I have the seat heater permanently on the Low setting and the temperature set to 23 degrees. That's warmer than many people would choose, and would go some way to explaining the extreme difference between my winter and summer ranges. If you're prepared to run in less balmy conditions than I prefer, you'll go further. That may be offset slightly by the fact that my car's used for very little other than communting, so I'm invariably on my own and rarely carrying any extra baggage. Not that my wife would appreciate being referred to as such!

Thanks again.

Appreciate your ino.

Im a bit thoughtfull abot the seats, to . I think the gen 2 PHEV seats are even a bit harder than in our gen1 PHEV and definitely harder than in our Prius + 2017.

Im about to test drive an other (used) gen 2 this friday , hopefully.

A lot of things to consider 

[HSDish]

Our Prius gen 1 PHEV can be driven in about 75 km/h (46.6 miles/h I think) in HV mode and about 85 km/h (52.8 miles/h I think) on Battery on flat road.

How fast can gen2 drive in HV and EV mode on Battery on flat road ?

[Ten Ninety]

Theoretically, if in EV mode, it will switch to HV automatically once you hit 84mph. In practice, the ICE will kick in anyway when significant accelerative power is needed at lower speeds.

Somewhat annoyingly, the car doesn't tell you when this happens because it's officially still in EV mode - you've got to listen for the engine (which is usually drowned out by the road noise) to realise it's happened, or spot that the realtime mpkWh display (if you're displaying it) has gone mysteriously blank. Once engaged, the ICE will need to do its full warm-up cycle, so it will then keep running long after it's needed for accelerative purposes. That said, if you drive reasonably 'carefully' in Eco mode then it's perfectly possibly to never engage the ICE - at lower speeds you have to be quite harsh with the throttle (e.g. overtaking, pulling out into a stream of traffic) to trigger it. It gets progressively harder to avoid above 70mph, and you'd really need to crawl the last few mph up to 84 and hope there's no headwind or traffic in the way.

If you're determined to avoid the ICE starting at all, then EV City mode does a good job of that - it really is only emergency full-throttle engagement. Howevever, that only works at lower speeds (not sure exactly when it drops out. Maybe around 60 mph?).

In HV mode I don't know what the limit for ICE-off running is - possibly the same. It's definitely much higher than the old drivetrain, which makes a significant difference to mpg when in HV mode because it's easily possible to spend 60-70% of a summertime HV journey travelling with the engine off, even starting with no charge in the Battery.

[Catlover]

Very interesting, Jay.

[HSDish]

13 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

Theoretically, if in EV mode, it will switch to HV automatically once you hit 84mph. In practice, the ICE will kick in anyway when significant accelerative power is needed at lower speeds.

Somewhat annoyingly, the car doesn't tell you when this happens because it's officially still in EV mode - you've got to listen for the engine (which is usually drowned out by the road noise) to realise it's happened, or spot that the realtime mpkWh display (if you're displaying it) has gone mysteriously blank. Once engaged, the ICE will need to do its full warm-up cycle, so it will then keep running long after it's needed for accelerative purposes. That said, if you drive reasonably 'carefully' in Eco mode then it's perfectly possibly to never engage the ICE - at lower speeds you have to be quite harsh with the throttle (e.g. overtaking, pulling out into a stream of traffic) to trigger it. It gets progressively harder to avoid above 70mph, and you'd really need to crawl the last few mph up to 84 and hope there's no headwind or traffic in the way.

If you're determined to avoid the ICE starting at all, then EV City mode does a good job of that - it really is only emergency full-throttle engagement. Howevever, that only works at lower speeds (not sure exactly when it drops out. Maybe around 60 mph?).

In HV mode I don't know what the limit for ICE-off running is - possibly the same. It's definitely much higher than the old drivetrain, which makes a significant difference to mpg when in HV mode because it's easily possible to spend 60-70% of a summertime HV journey travelling with the engine off, even starting with no charge in the battery.

Thanks again .

 

Found this at page 93 in PHEV gen 2 manual.

" Switching to the hybrid Battery (traction battery) charge mode Press and hold the EV/HV mode selection switch. Take your hand off the switch once the hybrid Battery charge mode indicator starts to blink. The hybrid Battery charge mode indicator illuminates when the switch to hybrid battery (traction battery) charge mode is complete. When the hybrid battery (traction battery) is fully charged*, the hybrid battery (traction battery) charge mode is automatically canceled and the operation mode will be switched to HV mode. The hybrid battery (traction battery) charge mode will be canceled by pressing EV/HV mode selection switch or EV City mode switch. *: The maximum charge amount in the hybrid battery (traction battery) charge mode is approximately 80% of the fully charged capacity for the charging from an external power source"

The Swedish manual just says "hybrid battery" nothing about " (traction battery)

Does it mean that it's possible to charge to EV mode from running ICE ?

[QuantumFireball]

Yes, the current PHV has a "charge mode", but it's not really an efficient driving solution.

[Ten Ninety]

More on various experiences of Charge mode here:

 

 

[HSDish]

Thanks to both Jay and Aaron.

 

My local Toyota dealer will have an resonable priced and with good trade in deal, White Pearl Metallic 2017 Prius PHEV ”Active trim level” with 3100km / 1926.25 miles on the clock,  in about two weeks ( I first thought it was there to test today).

This car has even got an Block and cab heater installed . (usefull in my garage)

In Sweden we have three trim levels of Gen 2 PHEV –  ”Solar pak” with solarcell roof bot no HUD, RCTA or Blind spot warning - ”Active” (mid) and - ”Executive” which is the highest.

 

So… because we now need to drive our gen 1 car some 60 km trip (about 37.28 miles I think) four times a week,(regularly) without charging and most of that distance are at highway speed 110 km/h ( 68.3 miles/h I think) . And I think that gen 2 will manage most of those trips on EV

Our gen 1 just manage to be driven at about 80 km/h speed ( 49.7 miles /h I think) at EV mode (Battery)  but as I can understand gen 2 can manage to be driven at about 120 km/h (74.5 miles /h) and thats an advantage

 

Plus that Gen 2 got heatpump (advantage for shorter trips in colder weather)

 

I’m about to give that Gen 2 a serious test and consideration . The thing that possibly worries me a little is Gen 2’s a bit lower and a bit harder seats.

[johalareewi]

Deleted

[johalareewi]

On 2/17/2020 at 3:09 PM, QuantumFireball said:

Changing 2 of my 4 tyres from summer to all-season seemed to make a marked reduction in EV range, but if you need winter tyres for winter then I guess there's not much that can be done there.

You can get low rolling resistance winter tyres and also LRR all season tyres. My previous gen3 prius had Michelin Alpin winter tyres and my current plug in has nokian weatherproof tyres.

[HSDish]

Is there any differences in the use/ability of the AC button on the carkey , between gen 1 and gen 2 ?

[HSDish]

On 2/28/2020 at 4:21 PM, HSDish said:

Is there any differences in the use/ability of the AC button on the carkey , between gen 1 and gen 2 ?

Do You Prius PHEV Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners use Your AC button (on the car key) at all ?

Personaly I've not used it that much, but I think it sounds like a good feature .

[Ten Ninety]

2 hours ago, HSDish said:

Do You Prius PHEV Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners use Your AC button (on the car key) at all ?

Personaly I've not used it that much, but I think it sounds like a good feature .

I use it every day, because in the UK Toyota crippled the specification and deleted the climate prep option which allows you to automatically pre-heat (or cool) the car when using a timed charge. They left it in the owner's manual of course, just to mock us. Maybe your European spec includes climate prep, in which case I imagine the key fob wouldn't be used a lot.

I'm also interested to know whether you get the crippled headlights in Europe. In the UK, despite the false advertising in the brochure, when in auto mode the headlights don't steer around corners and the main beam doesn't go 'wide' at low speeds - it doesn't actually do anything at all until you reach 40mph. If you have a chance to test the car in the dark, perhaps you could let us know.

[HSDish]

25 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

I use it every day, because in the UK Toyota crippled the specification and deleted the climate prep option which allows you to automatically pre-heat (or cool) the car when using a timed charge. They left it in the owner's manual of course, just to mock us. Maybe your European spec includes climate prep, in which case I imagine the key fob wouldn't be used a lot.

I'm also interested to know whether you get the crippled headlights in Europe. In the UK, despite the false advertising in the brochure, when in auto mode the headlights don't steer around corners and the main beam doesn't go 'wide' at low speeds - it doesn't actually do anything at all until you reach 40mph. If you have a chance to test the car in the dark, perhaps you could let us know.

There's no "climate prep" in my Gen 1 as far as I can understand ( only AC button on  car key)

I hope my local dealer gets the used Gen 2 that I'm intressted in, next week. If so I will ask them to borrow the car for at least a day and night so I can do an proper test, includig driving in the dark.

[QuantumFireball]

I use the remote AC button on mine in the summer, but with no heating (without the ICE running) in winter it's not that useful.

[Cjohnston1982]

I use the remote AC button to defrost the windscreen. It only operates for 10 mins but it works well

[HSDish]

Thanks to both QuantumFireball and Cjohnston 1982.

I've just used the remote AC button some times in the summer (bought my Gen 1 summer of 2019) for cooling,  too.

Tested some days ago when the outside temp. was about 7 degrees C and the car AC set to 20 degrees C but I couldnt find out if it worked.

The ICE didn't kick in (good thing I think) and I tested when the car was connected to the charger, by the charge cable.

Is it possible to run the AC by the remote AC button when the car is at charge ?

If so, does the charging start again if the Battery is fully charged and I press the remote AC button ?

(apologize for my bad English and hope You understand)

[QuantumFireball]

My car's indoors when charging so I don't really have a need to use remote aircon when it's plugged in.

The ICE will never start the remote aircon.

[HSDish]

On 3/1/2020 at 8:49 PM, HSDish said:

There's no "climate prep" in my Gen 1 as far as I can understand ( only AC button on  car key)

I hope my local dealer gets the used Gen 2 that I'm intressted in, next week. If so I will ask them to borrow the car for at least a day and night so I can do an proper test, includig driving in the dark.

Got info. from my local dealer right now and I can testdrive the used White Pearl Metallic 2017 Prius PHEV in the beginning of next week.

[HSDish]

On 3/1/2020 at 8:19 PM, Ten Ninety said:

I use it every day, because in the UK Toyota crippled the specification and deleted the climate prep option which allows you to automatically pre-heat (or cool) the car when using a timed charge. They left it in the owner's manual of course, just to mock us. Maybe your European spec includes climate prep, in which case I imagine the key fob wouldn't be used a lot.

I'm also interested to know whether you get the crippled headlights in Europe. In the UK, despite the false advertising in the brochure, when in auto mode the headlights don't steer around corners and the main beam doesn't go 'wide' at low speeds - it doesn't actually do anything at all until you reach 40mph. If you have a chance to test the car in the dark, perhaps you could let us know.

I will borrow an White Pearl Metallic 2017 Prius PHEV for a test tomorrow 20120-03-11  -  03-12 from my local dealer. Will try to find out Your questions then.

I think I remember that You said You bought Your PHEV used. Is it maybe possible that the former owner could have had the AHS system shut down by Toyota (as showed in manual page 712)

[Ten Ninety]

4 hours ago, HSDish said:

I will borrow an White Pearl Metallic 2017 Prius PHEV for a test tomorrow 20120-03-11  -  03-12 from my local dealer. Will try to find out Your questions then.

I think I remember that You said You bought Your PHEV used. Is it maybe possible that the former owner could have had the AHS system shut down by Toyota (as showed in manual page 712)

If you do get a chance to see whether the headlights respond when turning the wheel to light up the corner, and whether you get anything other than standard dipped beam below 37mph, that would be interesting to know.

You make a good point about the system possibly being disabled by a previous owner, but it is actually working above 37mph. I also got confirmation from Toyota UK that this is how it's 'supposed' to work in the UK, despite the UK sales brochure suggesting otherwise.

[HSDish]

1 hour ago, Ten Ninety said:

If you do get a chance to see whether the headlights respond when turning the wheel to light up the corner, and whether you get anything other than standard dipped beam below 37mph, that would be interesting to know.

You make a good point about the system possibly being disabled by a previous owner, but it is actually working above 37mph. I also got confirmation from Toyota UK that this is how it's 'supposed' to work in the UK, despite the UK sales brochure suggesting otherwise.

I'll do my best.