Corolla 2.0 - questions from a prospective buyer

[Timmon]

23 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

55mpg right at the moment is pretty good, it’s very windy and raining these two affect the economy a lot. If you drive 2.0 you will be probably getting around 45mpg for the same journeys. 

Agreed, I'm on about 45-46 at the moment. Very happy, last car would have been about 30 this weather. My T often disagrees though, claiming 55 or more on certain trips, but I don't reset the on board computer every time, so I get a 2 week average.

[King Crimson]

Are you guys calculating mpg yourselves or go with the on board computer calculation? I have the 1.8 and the on board computer says that i'm on 4.2l per 100 km or 67mpg when converted to U.K mpg. Since i don't calculate the consumtion myself i just see how many times i visit the gas station every month. Pretty much every 3 weeks i refuel back to full, the most that i have gone without refueling was 3.5 weeks and the least 2 weeks and 5-6 days, i usually drive at speeds close to 80km/h and sometimes to 100. I live in Athens, Greece with really few rainy days and relatively warm weather, right now during the day it's about 20 degrees celcius and 10 degrees during the night. And the weather will only keep getting better, with this kind of climate is propably the best place to have a hybrid or a fully electric car. Here it's summer from the beggining of May and ends by mid November. My consumtion went a bit higher during the winter at about 4.5 l per 100km or 62mpg, especially in late december to early January when it was about 6 degrees celcius during the day and -1 to 0 degrees celcius during the night. 

 

P.S I reset my consumtion every day

[OXYGEN]

10 hours ago, King Crimson said:

Are you guys calculating mpg yourselves or go with the on board computer calculation? I have the 1.8 and the on board computer says that i'm on 4.2l per 100 km or 67mpg when converted to U.K mpg. Since i don't calculate the consumtion myself i just see how many times i visit the gas station every month. Pretty much every 3 weeks i refuel back to full, the most that i have gone without refueling was 3.5 weeks and the least 2 weeks and 5-6 days, i usually drive at speeds close to 80km/h and sometimes to 100. I live in Athens, Greece with really few rainy days and relatively warm weather, right now during the day it's about 20 degrees celcius and 10 degrees during the night. And the weather will only keep getting better, with this kind of climate is propably the best place to have a hybrid or a fully electric car. Here it's summer from the beggining of May and ends by mid November. My consumtion went a bit higher during the winter at about 4.5 l per 100km or 62mpg, especially in late december to early January when it was about 6 degrees celcius during the day and -1 to 0 degrees celcius during the night. 

 

P.S I reset my consumtion every day

Kalimera,

For easier and more realistic tracking of your consumption I suggest you to use Spritmonitor app/site. You just need to have some discipline to populate data on every visit to the gas station. But then you will have really nice track and statistics. Check the mpg data link on my signature.

[AndrueC]

I calculate pump to pump myself. The car was showing 62.3 when I filled up. It's typically around 10 to 15% understating but on one memorably occasion shortly after I got the car it was a whopping 30% out.

[King Crimson]

32 minutes ago, OXYGEN said:

Kalimera,

For easier and more realistic tracking of your consumption I suggest you to use Spritmonitor app/site. You just need to have some discipline to populate data on every visit to the gas station. But then you will have really nice track and statistics. Check the mpg data link on my signature.

Καλημέρα, i will give it a try.

 

9 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

I calculate pump to pump myself. The car was showing 62.3 when I filled up. It's typically around 10 to 15% understating but on one memorably occasion shortly after I got the car it was a whopping 30% out.

I think the longer you go without resetting the computer the more unrealistic your fuel consumtion will be. 

[OXYGEN]

I am impressed what consumption you manage to achieve in Athens.

Driving in Greece and at home in Bulgaria is very different from what is in UK - much more nervous and with constant acceleration and hard brakes to keep up with traffic.

For example, three weeks ago I was in Athens. I was trying to drive economically on the big boulevard by the sea from Glyfada towards Piraeus. The traffic was so nervous of me driving "slowly", there was even a big lorry truck that angryly overtook me while using the horn, only to jump on the brakes in front of me few seconds later on the next traffic light...

So it seems those hybrids are really tolerant to the style of driving compared to weather/road surface conditions, which in comparison kill the economy way severely than normal ICE cars.

[TonyHSD]

Lol, in Athens you have almost the perfect road conditions at the moment. 80-100km/h 50-60mph those are the most economical speeds for any car and temperatures around 20C., great👍 No one ever need to try driving with traffic flow, especially when most of the drivers are people who doesn’t respect the rest of the road users, Highway Code and all rules in general, signs, speed limits. We are all different and as long as anyone doesn’t drive irritatingly slow it is absolutely fine, here in UK at the moment it is so bad to drive that very often I feel worse than in your countries, even the roads are rubbish like never before, I am telling you it is worse than Bulgaria and Greece now, positive! Drivers discipline and respect are things  from the past and here is were all the problems begins. , plus when you see all those drivers including lorry drivers that are the worst.,  driving like lunatics without any sense why should anyone try to keep up with them?! Toyota 1.8 not enough powerful to keep up, really? Even 2.0 it’s not enough, 2.5 hybrid not enough, actually no any car is ever enough if drivers thinking that way. One of the worst cars in today’s time is enough if you ask me, Mitsubishi Mirage 1.0 is enough if you respect other drivers, complying with rules etc. These madness must end, and will be when all cars become driverless, commuting and track days drive are two different things, Remember. And here is latest: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8095045/Drink-driver-loses-control-flips-car-narrowly-missing-wiping-elderly-pedestrian.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8095161/Driver-banned-lorry-driven-speed-left-dangling-dual-carriageway.html
 

These are normal scenes from beautiful Modern Britain . 

 

[OXYGEN]

Maybe you are right Tony. But it has to be still better than around here.

From my perspective, I am always more confident, relaxed and feel more secure driving in western Europe/UK. Last time I was in UK, it was for couple of weeks in Nottinghamshire in winter of 2018. From a pedestrian point of view I observed stopping on crosswalks, cars tolerant with bicyclists/motorcyclists, etc. In Greece for example, crosswalks are just something painted on the road. No one stops. In Bulgaria it is a bit better, but one stopping for pedestrian need to first check rear view mirror...or might have rear bumper issues 😄

And the worst thing in Bulgaria. And why, you like it or not, need to keep with traffic. Too many impudent drivers that switch lanes in their favor. For example a traffic light with two lanes - one for going ahead and one for left turn. Left turn is rarely used so that lane is almost empty. The other one has more than 20 cars. A dumb ***** driver comes but does not want to wait in his lane, so goes in the one for left turn and right before the junction returns back in the forward lane cutting the cars there. Now imagine 5-10 such drivers and you can wait to cross several green lights...Then imagine 5-10-20 such junctions on your trip and the time can grow from 20 minutes to more than an hour. So to avoid this you have no option but stay close to the car in front of you, not allowing such bast*rds to fit back.

 

PS. Sorry for the off topic, but I hope it brings light in understanding different driving styles and why same cars result in very different consumption in different countries. We have been touching this topic several times in different posts and I got the impression that some people have not experienced eastern style driving conditions.

[King Crimson]

5 hours ago, OXYGEN said:

I am impressed what consumption you manage to achieve in Athens.

Driving in Greece and at home in Bulgaria is very different from what is in UK - much more nervous and with constant acceleration and hard brakes to keep up with traffic.

For example, three weeks ago I was in Athens. I was trying to drive economically on the big boulevard by the sea from Glyfada towards Piraeus. The traffic was so nervous of me driving "slowly", there was even a big lorry truck that angryly overtook me while using the horn, only to jump on the brakes in front of me few seconds later on the next traffic light...

So it seems those hybrids are really tolerant to the style of driving compared to weather/road surface conditions, which in comparison kill the economy way severely than normal ICE cars.

That's exactly the road that i drive everyday, I live in Palaio Faliro which is close to Piraeus and drive a few km's away from glyfada (there road has also been recently paved, isn't it great how quiet it is?). Yes drivers are really nervous but usually at 80 km/h and staying in the middle lane most people won't bother you and i've never experienced any kind of road rage like what you are describing in the few years that i have been driving this road (but i am sure it happend and it comes to no suprise to me)  when i leave for work in the morning the road is almost empty, on my way back though it's always full of traffic so i don't waste much fuel on my way back home. What really helps though is that i am pretty good at staying in ev mode and not using the brakes too much and letting the car glide without using the accelerator, for example i try to see as far ahead as possible and check if someone is braking or the warning lights (i have no idea how they are called or if you guys have them in your countries but they are those traffic lights that blink when the next traffic light will go red so that you are prepared to stop.) so when those are on i let go of the accelarator i come almost to a complete stop with very little use of the brakes.

 

25 minutes ago, OXYGEN said:

Maybe you are right Tony. But it has to be still better than around here.

From my perspective, I am always more confident, relaxed and feel more secure driving in western Europe/UK. Last time I was in UK, it was for couple of weeks in Nottinghamshire in winter of 2018. From a pedestrian point of view I observed stopping on crosswalks, cars tolerant with bicyclists/motorcyclists, etc. In Greece for example, crosswalks are just something painted on the road. No one stops. In Bulgaria it is a bit better, but one stopping for pedestrian need to first check rear view mirror...or might have rear bumper issues 😄

 

 

 

Yes crosswalks are almost faded out here and you can barely tell that they are there and 99% of drivers won't stop when they see a pedestrian trying to cross the road, right across the street from where i live most drivers just drive like maniacs going like 60 km/h or even more in a 20-30 km/h zone with tons of children running around when they come back from school since there is a school 500 meters away. I think greece is the country with the most deaths in europe, crazy bikers overtaking you while they only have 0.5 cm of space of course with no protective gear or at least a helmet. Anyway i went really of topic as well but i am also really frustrated how everyone on the road just doesn't care about their own and others safety.

[Timmon]

I only use the car computer, so go by that. I don't get too scientific about it. I fill up about the same number of times as I did with my old car. The difference is that my old car had a 65 ltr tank, the Corolla 41 ltrs. So the reduction in cost on my credit card is impressive!

[King Crimson]

53 minutes ago, Timmon said:

I only use the car computer, so go by that. I don't get too scientific about it. I fill up about the same number of times as I did with my old car. The difference is that my old car had a 65 ltr tank, the Corolla 41 ltrs. So the reduction in cost on my credit card is impressive!

Yeah i'm not THAT interested in calculating everything as well, i'm just trying to be relatively economical and not drive too hard. What i am interested in though is to see the difference between U.K consumtion and Greek consumtion (or countries with equivalent weather) that's why i'm thinking of using the app that Nikolay suggested.

[Timmon]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:49 PM, King Crimson said:

Yeah i'm not THAT interested in calculating everything as well, i'm just trying to be relatively economical and not drive too hard. What i am interested in though is to see the difference between U.K consumtion and Greek consumtion (or countries with equivalent weather) that's why i'm thinking of using the app that Nikolay suggested.

Good idea. In the UK, we have had a bad winter for rain and wind, so I guess a lot of power is used with wipers and headlights even during the day, plus wind and water resistance. But we have not had really cold temperatures, and no prolonged spell of below zero. Had I had this car 2 years ago, when it was minus 4 C even during the day in March, and for a few weeks, I wonder what MPG we would have had then. I suspect much lower! The Battery would have been struggling.

[TonyHSD]

Hi, between summer and winter in hybrids difference is around 10mpg, but all depends of use. I personally keep the car in ready mode to heat the cabin for few hours every night and this affects the consumption too. I don’t really think that hybrids are any how worse than standard cars in cold weather, only petrol or diesel cars gets higher consumption too, maybe drivers just don’t bother keep an eye on it that much in comparison with hybrids owners. Batteries like room temperature around 20C , and because our hybrids batteries are air cooled or heated from the cabin best is to keep the interior at around 20-22c all the year. Wind, rain, hills Or extra load are even greater enemy to the hybrid fuel consumption than the cold weather imo. The difference between countries if we exclude the air temperature as factors and fuel type and quality would depends of the place the cars are driven not geographically like in Greece, England or Bulgaria. Hybrids love speed around 30-50mph, and small towns and A and B roads between towns and villages, or driving in cities at nights when not much of a traffic., with Prius before I was getting same as official figures or better in the above conditions. Now mostly motorways and I am getting 60mpg summer and 48-50mpg winter. 
Regards  

[OXYGEN]

Another killer of the Battery and the mpg that I am observing several times lately - wet roads especially with puddles.

On my way home the last 2 km I always drive almost only in EV mode. Depending on the traffic and if I can pulse and glide, it takes me 1 or 2 bars of the Battery. This has been the case ever since I got the car. Even temperatures of around 0 or -5 have not increased the Battery consumption very much.

And then last few weeks it started raining here. And the battery killer appeared - the wet roads with lots of puddles. Now the same part of my journeys sucks 3 or even more bars. I can see how in the same stretch of my street where usually I can keep 50km/h in EV mode, with rain the car really struggles to accelerate to it or even keep it. So if I try to press the gas more trying to keep the speed, the car starts the ICE. Also on places where I know that I can glide exactly from one building to another, the puddles and water now almost stop the car about the half of that same stretch.

I have never observed this so noticeably in my previous petrol car. And I spoke with a friend with Hyundai Kona. He said that it is not such big difference for him. But he has way more powerful electric motor and enormous battery.

Our tiny motors and batteries are extremely sensitive to such road conditions.

[TonyHSD]

14 hours ago, OXYGEN said:

Another killer of the battery and the mpg that I am observing several times lately - wet roads especially with puddles.

On my way home the last 2 km I always drive almost only in EV mode. Depending on the traffic and if I can pulse and glide, it takes me 1 or 2 bars of the battery. This has been the case ever since I got the car. Even temperatures of around 0 or -5 have not increased the battery consumption very much.

And then last few weeks it started raining here. And the battery killer appeared - the wet roads with lots of puddles. Now the same part of my journeys sucks 3 or even more bars. I can see how in the same stretch of my street where usually I can keep 50km/h in EV mode, with rain the car really struggles to accelerate to it or even keep it. So if I try to press the gas more trying to keep the speed, the car starts the ICE. Also on places where I know that I can glide exactly from one building to another, the puddles and water now almost stop the car about the half of that same stretch.

I have never observed this so noticeably in my previous petrol car. And I spoke with a friend with Hyundai Kona. He said that it is not such big difference for him. But he has way more powerful electric motor and enormous battery.

Our tiny motors and batteries are extremely sensitive to such road conditions.

Hi Николай , 

I agreed with you, the wet roads and wind, plus hills or extra load, more people in the car etc, these are killers for Toyota hybrids. It is not because of the size of the Battery or electric motors but because of the way the torque is delivered to the wheels, Toyota doesn’t have gears but power split device and to get the car going all inside transmission needs to rotate at greater speeds MG2 > more Battery power and MG1+ICE > more petrol. And here in similar situations is where you can here the “whining “ noise that journalists dislike and compare with standard cvt. You have electric motors in your Corollas that rotates up to speeds of 19000rpm if car pushed to the limits. That guy is amazing teacher, you can watch his Toyota videos if you haven’t yet, they are super interesting and educational: 

Regards 

[TheTJW]

So, does the Toyota app allow you to look at stats like fuel usage, plus other useful things like starting the heater remotely - UK version etc..?

[Timmon]

5 hours ago, TheTJW said:

So, does the Toyota app allow you to look at stats like fuel usage, plus other useful things like starting the heater remotely - UK version etc..?

The My T app shows MPG, and quite a few stats, like distance travelled, % in EV mode, where you travelled, where your car is now, where you accelerated or braked to hard, and where you did it just right, coaching tips, Time spent driving by time period and mileage, etc. A lot of good info. Coaching tips you take as you find. I find it would be dangerous to try to get good marks when you enter / leave a roundabout, as you have to get going, and so accelerate hard into a gap, many times. My T hates that!

But starting the heater remotely, I am not sure what you mean? I control my heater and air con in the car!

[King Crimson]

2 hours ago, Timmon said:

The My T app shows MPG, and quite a few stats, like distance travelled, % in EV mode, where you travelled, where your car is now, where you accelerated or braked to hard, and where you did it just right, coaching tips, Time spent driving by time period and mileage, etc. A lot of good info. Coaching tips you take as you find. I find it would be dangerous to try to get good marks when you enter / leave a roundabout, as you have to get going, and so accelerate hard into a gap, many times. My T hates that!

But starting the heater remotely, I am not sure what you mean? I control my heater and air con in the car!

He means to start the heater wiressly so that before you get in the car your cabin is already warm. I'm 99% sure this feature doesn't exist.

[nielshm]

Have any of you done a change from winter tyres to summer tyres? How did that feel? Lower noise, higher mpg's? Or just the same?

I get my summer tyres next friday, and I just can't wait. I can't wait to see, what the car really can do. Higher temps, less wind and rain. In dry conditions and temps around 9-10C, I get close to 60 mpg on longer drives - but with winter tyres. On 60 mile long drives my EV time is 24% according to MyT.

[Catlover]

Niels, you will probably get a better mpg result by improving driving technique. Not being disrespectful because I don’t know how you drive now, and that’s why I said “probably”.             
I noticed a difference this last couple weeks as temperature going up, many days now 7-8 degree, though we had a couple at 10-11 degree. Lat night did 18 mile return journey and did 67 mpg. During summer that more likely to be 75 mpg.              
I have noticed that if I do a journey, even about 5 miles, stop (bit of shopping) that when I then drive the mpg seems to be very good, as if the heat under the bonnet has permeated the whole system and the system likes it. Anyone else noticed that?

[nielshm]

6 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Niels, you will probably get a better mpg result by improving driving technique. Not being disrespectful because I don’t know how you drive now, and that’s why I said “probably”.             
I noticed a difference this last couple weeks as temperature going up, many days now 7-8 degree, though we had a couple at 10-11 degree. Lat night did 18 mile return journey and did 67 mpg. During summer that more likely to be 75 mpg.              
I have noticed that if I do a journey, even about 5 miles, stop (bit of shopping) that when I then drive the mpg seems to be very good, as if the heat under the bonnet has permeated the whole system and the system likes it. Anyone else noticed that?

If I do short drives, my mpg sucks. The car will do a full engine heat up, Battery will start to charge etc., and with only a few miles to go, mpg's very low. I expect my heating cycle to be very short, as outside temp goes up, and it will affect my mpg.

And that's just the way it is, I can't do anything to change that.

If I remember correctly, the Prius may have some fancy heating device. It makes sense, as the Prius was the flagship of Toyotas hybrids, and would beat a similar powered Auris by 20%

[Catlover]

2 hours ago, nielshm said:

If I remember correctly, the Prius may have some fancy heating device. It makes sense, as the Prius was the flagship of Toyotas hybrids, and would beat a similar powered Auris by 20%

Not heard about that Neils, something new to learn about.

I know the design of the Prius adds to iits effectiveness in having a low coefficient of friction ie its shape and being low to the ground, even the underbody design helps it slip through the air.

[nielshm]

23 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Not heard about that Neils, something new to learn about.

I know the design of the Prius adds to iits effectiveness in having a low coefficient of friction ie its shape and being low to the ground, even the underbody design helps it slip through the air.

Something like this, highlighted as a new feature in Gen 4.

Fuel efficiency in cold weather conditions has also been improved thanks to a new system which uses a coolant water selector valve to accelerate engine warm-up, while maintaining cabin heater performance.

[Gerg]

Is there not some heat recovery on some Prius gen3 and gen 4s that the Corolla does not have?

This picture is of a Prius gen4 exhaust, the arrows point to the water  delivery and return attachment pipes for heat reclamation and faster warm-up, don't they?

I have seen the same feature on a Prius gen3 plug-in (strictly a gen1 plug-in!).

[AndrueC]

I thought some Prius had a 'thermos flask' that stored coolant to keep it warm? Also don't some have motorised louvers for the radiator grill?