Yaris hybrid key problem

[Itsfine]

2014 Yaris Excel.

I have a problem with the key.  When I start up. I get a yellow key symbol flashing. If I wait a couple of minutes it disappears.  Also sometimes, when I switch off, the yellow light flashes and the alarm beeps.  I have to start up again and switch off again.

It was suggested that it could be a Battery problem so I have new batteries in both fobs.

My local dealer says they don't know what it is as they have not come across it before.

I am concerned that I might get stranded if next time I stop it won't start.

Any ideas would be welcome.

Thanks

[flash22]

If you have the ignition on and open the door the key reminder ding's

What brand batteries did you fit ? These fobs eat the cheap batteries, or If they are old and slightly discharged (The fob's do not like low voltage)

If you have the Smart entry and Keyless Go , You can get in the car with the key (if the lock/unlock buttons don't work) all you do then is put the fob on the start button until you hear the steering lock then with your foot on the brake press and hold the start button or press the start button twice

[Itsfine]

Thanks flash22. The dealer fitted the new batteries but I will check them and also try the procedure you suggest. Do you know what minimum voltage the batteries should be?  Also, if the car Battery (not the main battery) is low, would that affect the key operation?

[Gerg]

9 hours ago, Itsfine said:

Do you know what minimum voltage the batteries should be?

When the fob batteries are new they measure just over 3.3 volts.  By the time they have discharged to 3.05 volts then I would expect them to start becoming unpredictable in use.  If your batteries are below 3.3 volts already, then they weren't new ones when they were fitted - even rubbish no-name batteries should last longer than a few weeks. 

[flash22]

Did they really change them tho ?

Some cheap no name batteries come slightly discharged they also make low energy batteries

Get either Duracell or Energizer CR2032 (£4 for 2 in Wickes)

They are very simple to change, Just get the new batteries out of the packet first (some have a film peel on the back too)

[Itsfine]

Thanks both for your advice.  With COVID restrictions it may be while before I can get out for a test run!

Anyway, I have checked the batteries and they are reading 2.99 and 3.02 and do not have any maker's logo so that seems to line up with your info. In future I will change them myself to be sure they are actually being changed! I will buy some Duracell or Energizer as soon as I can.

Thanks again

[Itsfine]

Back here again.  Now that I'm back on the road, the same problem occurs.  I go through the usual routine and on 60% of staring occasions the yellow warning light comes on.  All batteries are charged and regardless of which key is used the problem remains.  The warning light shows for about 15 seconds and the warning bleeps and the car will go with the light showing.

Video is attached and any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[flash22]

That shows the key is out of range - if you turn off the keyless start in the touch2 customisation menu then start the car by putting the fob over the button then pressing start (foot on the brake for ready mode)

Did you replace the Battery ?

Do you have both keys in the car or one nearby ?

the batteries may test fine voltage wise but without a load it will read higher, test using a 100 ohm resistor

[Itsfine]

This has only started happening this year.  Have tried the 'fob over the button' without any improvement.  The fobs have brand new batteries and both are frequently in the vehicle as my regular passenger also driver the car. At first I wondered if the auxiliary Battery was low but quite ofter it starts fine at first but then alarms after a short stop en route.

[Gerg]

10 hours ago, Itsfine said:

Have tried the 'fob over the button' without any improvement.

This mode of starting will allow the car to start when the lithium button cell inside the ignition key has gone flat or stopped working.  It won't stop the dashboard warning light from showing - it just stops you getting stranded with a duff key Battery.

The auxiliary Battery (I am taking this as the 12v 'conventional' car battery) should not cause this dash alarm, especially if it happens at the end of a journey - when the Battery will have just been taking a charge.

Are you keeping your keys (when in the car) in an 'anti-theft' RFI-proof pouch?  I am meaning the ones that have become popular in the last few years.  If you are, then this could give some strange results.  Also, have you started keeping your keys in a different location in your home (relative to the car) since the problem started?  

The key fob has two completely separate security modules inside it.  The one that is powered by the button cell allows the car to detect the key is present at a short distance, operate the fob open/close buttons, and in your case, operate the keyless entry (so you can open the door by just touching the handle).  The second module (sometimes called the 'immobiliser chip') uses no batteries, this is actually powered wirelessly from the car dashboard, when it gets close enough to it. The second, universally adopted one, became common 25-odd years ago and is responsible for the massive reduction in car theft about 20 years ago.  It is this module that you are calling on when you hold the key directly over the start button - this is the 'back-up' mode of operation.

I would look at the key fob battery voltages again, as even when not being actively used, the key fobs are permanently checking for radio signals from the car, not least to enable a 'security handshake' to take place between the key and the car if you were to open it with the key in your pocket - so the key fob uses button cell battery power even when sat 'idle'.

Savers, the chemist chain, have a blister pack of Panasonic brand CR2032 cells (is that your size?), on sale for £2 for 6, or at least they did in February.  Worth a punt if you have a Savers near you.

HTH

[Mick F]

10 hours ago, Itsfine said:

This has only started happening this year.  Have tried the 'fob over the button' without any improvement.  The fobs have brand new batteries and both are frequently in the vehicle as my regular passenger also driver the car. At first I wondered if the auxiliary battery was low but quite ofter it starts fine at first but then alarms after a short stop en route.

I am surprised that you can operate the car with BOTH fobs inside.  To my mind, the car would be confused with both in there.

Have you always done this, or is it something you've been doing only this year?  Could this be the problem?

Ours is a 2014 Excel and ours is still under warranty as we took Toyota's offer of a two year warranty extension.  Excellent value and with AA membership too.

Mick.

[flash22]

Ah its getting confused wrap the other key in foil or put it in a tin, With the manual start make sure its Keyless is disabled in the menu

[Itsfine]

7 hours ago, Gerg said:

This mode of starting will allow the car to start when the lithium button cell inside the ignition key has gone flat or stopped working.  It won't stop the dashboard warning light from showing - it just stops you getting stranded with a duff key battery.

The auxiliary battery (I am taking this as the 12v 'conventional' car battery) should not cause this dash alarm, especially if it happens at the end of a journey - when the battery will have just been taking a charge.

Are you keeping your keys (when in the car) in an 'anti-theft' RFI-proof pouch?  I am meaning the ones that have become popular in the last few years.  If you are, then this could give some strange results.  Also, have you started keeping your keys in a different location in your home (relative to the car) since the problem started?  

The key fob has two completely separate security modules inside it.  The one that is powered by the button cell allows the car to detect the key is present at a short distance, operate the fob open/close buttons, and in your case, operate the keyless entry (so you can open the door by just touching the handle).  The second module (sometimes called the 'immobiliser chip') uses no batteries, this is actually powered wirelessly from the car dashboard, when it gets close enough to it. The second, universally adopted one, became common 25-odd years ago and is responsible for the massive reduction in car theft about 20 years ago.  It is this module that you are calling on when you hold the key directly over the start button - this is the 'back-up' mode of operation.

I would look at the key fob battery voltages again, as even when not being actively used, the key fobs are permanently checking for radio signals from the car, not least to enable a 'security handshake' to take place between the key and the car if you were to open it with the key in your pocket - so the key fob uses button cell battery power even when sat 'idle'.

Savers, the chemist chain, have a blister pack of Panasonic brand CR2032 cells (is that your size?), on sale for £2 for 6, or at least they did in February.  Worth a punt if you have a Savers near you.

HTH

Thanks for all this information.  I'm very grateful for your input.  The 'over the button' was suggested to me earlier but without any explanation other that a poor Battery.  I have changed the batteries with quality replacements so I know they should be ok. I just have the keys in my pocket so no shielding.  My Yaris does not have door touching feature, just press the icon on the fob. Nothing has changed since first buying the car.  The problem started after my last service at the end of last year.  I asked my dealer about it but was told that they did not know why it was happening and I asked if there had been a software update but was told not. It was just a brush off with 'never heard of this before'.  I have the extended warranty but if they say there is nothing wrong I don't know what I can do.  I had planned to upgrade this year but if they can't fix this I won't be, I'll look for some other marque.

[flash22]

Have you had the codes read ? It may have logged something

rewatching the video 1 sound and flashes for 15 seconds - Key Not found

 

yaris keyless go errors.pdf

[Itsfine]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

Have you had the codes read ? It may have logged something

rewatching the video 1 sound and flashes for 15 seconds - Key Not found

 

yaris keyless go errors.pdf 242.58 kB · 1 download

That's right Bob.  But if the key isn't found why does it still drive? I can set off with the light flashing, then it stops again after 15 secs.  When it flashes when I turn off, I have to start again, put it into drive, then back to park and switch off again to clear.

Do you know how long does it keep the logs before overwriting?  Sometimes it works fine for a week or so then fails regularly for another few days and it's difficult to get a service appointment at the moment.

[flash22]

Try dropping the key in the cup holder

it will log historic codes up till its cleared or xx amount of key/fob cycles

[Mick F]

2 hours ago, Itsfine said:

 I have the extended warranty but if they say there is nothing wrong ............

Then you need to go back and back and back again.  Show them the video.

Let THEM sort it out.  That's what you've paid for.

Mick.

[Itsfine]

Thanks to you all.  I feel I am armed with more information now so will know if they are bull*****g .