Toyota: advice on 12v battery maintenance

[AisinW]

I would go to different dealership to get replacement one. I believe there is enough Yuasa s34b20r Battery online too. It does not make sense your dealership cannot get one.  Right now, we can get it from Amazon or eBay easily. You can ask or call Toyota GB head quarter to resolve this issue.  Toyota is known to listen to direct complaint and address the issue with the manager of the dealership directly. 

It is not acceptable for a new car owner not to get Battery replacement on spot. The dealership must provide you a replacement car until they get the 12v Battery issue fixed. 

[Cyker]

Ha, that reminds me of a story recently about a Tesla that was delivered with no brake pads on one wheel, and it was taken to a tesla service centre where this was 'diagnosed', and it sat for 4+ weeks, the reason given was they didn't have any brake pads in stock  

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Redjohn said:

come on Toyota get the stock and replace the batteries as you are supposed to be one of the best car manufactures going, but seems lacking on the after sales side.

As Toyota Owners Club hasn't any connection with Toyota, and Toyota don't visit the Club, Toyota won't see this comment.

Aside from that, presumanly Yuasa supply the batteries from their factory in Wales, and we don't know how their production has been affected by Covid, etc.

[IanML]

They are apparently available on eBay for £139.44 +£20 postage.  

[AisinW]

Yes, we can buy from different online reseller or visit Yuasa website. Yuasa has list of the retailers that sell their batteries but you need to call particular store if they have it in stock.  

If the dealership keep pressing not changing the Battery and tell you they have no spare, you can buy that exact Yuassa Battery, get the receipt and ask for reimbursement. But first, call Toyota Headquarters in UK. they are pretty helpful. 

[Redjohn]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:19 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

As Toyota Owners Club hasn't any connection with Toyota, and Toyota don't visit the Club, Toyota won't see this comment.

Aside from that, presumanly Yuasa supply the batteries from their factory in Wales, and we don't know how their production has been affected by Covid, etc.

Thanks for the info, I did realise that Toyota didn’t visit this forum, just wanted to vent my frustration, sorry guys won’t do this again.  Update: as of today the dealer has charged the Battery to 80% and it passed its first test, now waiting 48hrs to see if anything untoward starts to drain it.  just a case of waiting….  I would have thought that these days with a new Battery it would at least hold its charge for a month before having too much drainage effect, but hey ho, it is what it is. 

[Redjohn]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:08 PM, Catlover said:

Toyota do not make the batteries. Maybe the manufacturer has been hit by covid and lot of their workforce not in….. production down. That could be the reality of what is going on in the world. And just because restrictions are being lifted next Thursday in the uk, that doesn’t reflect what mess covid is still causing in other countries, particularly Asia.

Yes that’s a fair point Covid is being used in most cases for failings but that’s not a reason for making and selling defective components (not these days) I do believe that these batteries are made in wales!!! UK.  Toyota don’t make them but they fit them to their cars, so are they not responsible if these items fail irrespective of who actually makes them!!  In a way it’s like saying if I buy a TV and it fails after 10 months due to a power unit within the body and this is made by another manufacturer but fitted to this model, we are not responsible if it has a defect and you will have to wait for them to repair it, as it’s not our problem.  I know it’s not quite the same situation but you must surely get what I mean.  We don’t make them, so are not responsible if any thing goes wrong (in a nutshell). Or have I got it all wrong?

[AisinW]

Toyota europe use some parts that are sourced locally. Like rear brake from Bosch, 12V from Varta Germany, rubber bushing from local UK company not NOK Japan,  philips bulb, etc. 

You have a simple problem, simple solution, get a 12V replacement for free up to 3 years anyway. Otherwise, you can just spend £180 for a new Battery yourself from online resaler if Toyota do not give you on spot. It is nothing compared to your health from anger and worried. 

Toyota had problems from supliers in the past like Delphi throttle sensor that cause unintended acceleration in 2008, cracked dashboard from heat in 2000-2015, they replaced them for free unlimited miles and years, like my 04 Sienna in 2017. It is not Fiat Crysler that deny any warranty claim. 

Sometimes Toyota release voluntary campaign, engine blocks that consume oil too much even outside warranty period 2007-2009 camry, 2011-2015 Prius brake booster, etc.  It is always a good idea to call headquarters for any issue.

35 minutes ago, Redjohn said:

Yes that’s a fair point Covid is being used in most cases for failings but that’s not a reason for making and selling defective components (not these days) I do believe that these batteries are made in wales!!! UK.  Toyota don’t make them but they fit them to their cars, so are they not responsible if these items fail irrespective of who actually makes them!!  In a way it’s like saying if I buy a TV and it fails after 10 months due to a power unit within the body and this is made by another manufacturer but fitted to this model, we are not responsible if it has a defect and you will have to wait for them to repair it, as it’s not our problem.  I know it’s not quite the same situation but you must surely get what I mean.  We don’t make them, so are not responsible if any thing goes wrong (in a nutshell). Or have I got it all wrong?

 

[Catlover]

I do not disagree with you John, but I do think there is much wrong with the product ie standard fit seems to Yuasa, but cars alternative makes fitted suffer to. The problem as I see it is this…. manufacturers try to make cars as light as possible. Toyota, some years ago, decided to put low amphour batteries in their Auris and Prius hybrids to save weight and space (they are physically small). The wife’s car, a 2010 Auris hybrid has one, the 59 plate Prius I had has one. Everything has been absolutely fine UNTIL covid came along. Then cars were not used as much, went days without being run, then came the first winter, 2019-20, and the cold. batteries do not like cold, any Battery, so now there is a combination of both lack of I use and cold. All of a sudden this forum was full of cars not starting. Toyota put out a procedure to help batteries, it’s well documented on here ie put car into ready mode for 40-60 minutes twice weekly if car not used. Cars being used regularly for more then a run to the local shop seem to be ok, others are struggling. More then a few on here bought an emergency start Battery, about the size of a 6” screen phone, others have bought a smart slow Battery charger. Both a good devices but we shouldn’t have to do that.                
I do think the excessive problems that seem to happen with the CHR and now the Gen4 Yaris may have more underlying problems, a power drain somewhere, and that needs to be addressed by Toyota.   
In short, generally speaking, for the current situation we are dealing with the 12 battery is too small power wise and I not sure a bigger powered battery will fit in the space the current battery will go.       
Yes it is up to Toyota to sort. The lack of supply of batteries, where OUR conversation started, could be due to slow production due to the covid, that, and other things, have slowed down production of cars. Not only Toyota but all brands at risk……..and of course shortage of new cars have meant the price of used cars shooting up, which means better trade in when buying new.

[Catlover]

Taken from a suppliers advert for a 12v Battery 45ah genuine Toyota (Yuasa). see the advice the further down warranty details. This company maybe a Battery dealer, or Toyota dealer, I dont know.

PLEASE LEAVE THE CAR RUNNING FOR AT LEAST 1 HOUR AFTER INSTALLING THE NEW Battery SO THAT IT CAN REACH TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL. BATTERY NORMALLY FAILS DUE TO REDUCED VEHICLE USAGE OR FREQUENT SHORT JOURNEYS. BATTERY IS AN ELECTROMECHANICAL DEVICE WHICH NATURALLY LOSES CHARGE OVER TIME AND LOSES CHARGE EVEN FASTER IN HIGH SPRING AND SUMMER. EVEN WHEN VEHICLE IS OFF & LOCKED, ALARMS AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEM WILL DRAIN THE BATTERY BECAUSE BATTERY IS STILL CONNECTED TO FUNCTION ALARM & OTHER VEHICLE INTERNAL COMPONENTS.

ALL HYBRID CARS REQUIRED MORE THAN 40MINS DRIVE OR AT LEAST 1HOUR IN “READY” MODE. IF NOT USING CAR REGULARLY LEAVE THE CAR RUNNING FOR AT LEAST 1HOUR TWICE A WEEK. IF BATTERY LEVEL IS DROPPED BELOW 80% AND NOT QUICKLY RECOVERED BY RECHARGING THEN IT WILL CAUSE PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY. DAMAGE OCCURS BELOW 10.5VOLTS. BATTERIES ARE NOT DESIGNED TO GO BELOW 12VOLTS BY THEMSELVES AND CAN ONLY GO DOWN BECAUSE OF OVER DISCHARGE. YOU CAN MONITOR THE BATTERY STATE OF CHARGE.

also......

 

WARRANTY TERMS AND CONDITIONS

• In the unlikely event where the battery develops a fault within the warranty period mentioned above we require customer co-operation, patience & report to swiftly process the claim.

• Every battery has a unique serial number and provided with warranty certificate if you have not received the stamped warranty certificate you need to inform us within 7days of purchase.

• We reserve the right to reject the claim if the warranty certificate is not provided along with other information requested at time of claim.

• In order to make a claim, the buyer needs to provide the warranty certificate along with the battery diagnostic report.

• Battery diagnostic report can easily be obtained from Toyota, Lexus, RAC, AA, Green Flag or any reputable Service shop equipped with battery diagnostic system.

• If a buyer is unable to provide the battery diagnostic report he or she will be responsible for returning the battery to us at their own expense until it is diagnosed and deemed to be faulty.

• If the buyer sends us the battery for diagnosis in order to make a warranty claim and the diagnostic report shows the battery is over discharge & dropped below the 10.5v we will reject the claim & buyer will be responsible for return postage cost.

• If our diagnosis report shows that the battery is healthy and only needs a charge we will reject the claim and the buyer will be responsible for return postage cost.

• Any information provided in relates to battery claim e.g mileage, vehicle registration, it will be verified through car VOSA.

• Battery warranty will be voided automatically if the vehicle is driven less than 300Miles per month or 3600miles per year.

Following are required for the proof of Battery Warranty Claim

• Warranty Certificate

• Diagnostic Report issued by Toyota / Lexus Dealer, RAC, AA or Green Flag

• Car Make & Model

• Current Mileage

• Vehicle Mileage when the battery was fitted

 

[Roy124]

Catlover, regarding Battery capacity.  As I mentioned before, my dealer replaced the 45ah Battery with a 52ah.  Same footprint and I think same height. 

Regarding your quote :

"DAMAGE OCCURS BELOW 10.5VOLTS. BATTERIES ARE NOT DESIGNED TO GO BELOW 12VOLTS BY THEMSELVES AND CAN ONLY GO DOWN BECAUSE OF OVER DISCHARGE. YOU CAN MONITOR THE Battery STATE OF CHARGE." 

And 

"the diagnostic report shows the battery is over discharge & dropped below the 10.5v we will reject the claim"

Effectively this voids the warranty as low voltage is  probably why you want to claim anyway. If there is over discharge then it's either because the lights were left on or the car caused the flat.  In the latter case your claim would be against the car dealer.  The crux is whether you knew about running the car for an hour every two weeks. 

[Roy124]

Dealer: "This is the super new hybrid, it will give you 50% more range on a full tank. Of course you will need to run it every week to keep the Battery charged" 

Buyer: "Oh, I often go away for 2 or 3 weeks holiday.  I think I'll go for...." 

Years ago I went away for 4 months, when I came back it never crossed my mind that it would not start. 

[IanML]

Years ago, cars did not have all manner of gadgets which consume power with the power source off.  Also, batteries were made somewhat better - now they compete on price, and they skimp on materials.

If you are contemplating a few weeks away, you could do what someone in Florida has done.  Fed up with the 42 Ah 12V Battery of his EV conking out, he replaced it with two 20Ah lithium-ion batteries in parallel.  He hasn't looked back.

[Roy124]

Ian, the point is we should not have to jump through hoops because the batteries are not as good as yester and for obvious reasons the manufacturers or dealers don't want to highlight problems. 

[AisinW]

I am not sure what happened to 35Ah Battery in Corolla and Yaris. My Auris uses 35Ah, and at 6y old it still holds 12.45V when fully charged and never fails.  

I recently bought NOCO5 because it has the best internal parts and tried repair mode. It does 1 Amp pulse charged for 4 hours at max 16.5V, so make sure disconnect it from the car. After 1 trials, the full charge increases to 12.6V.  It is aging so I am afraid doing it again may degrade the Battery instead of helping from etching the leads. Overcharging can remove some sulfation and increase the capacity by reduce the internal resistance by eating the electrodes.

You can try 45Ah S46B24R Battery that may fit snugly on Corolla or Yaris. It is 4cm longer. It is the same battery that older Prius uses. 

[KWr]

Can anyone recommend an intelligent Solar powered trickle charger I can purchase,  for use whilst car is left in airport for two weeks.

Currently awaiting 1st Hybrid  car purchase. Imminent delivery.

Toyota Corolla 2lt GR Sport

[Parts-King]

2 minutes ago, KWr said:

Can anyone recommend an intelligent Solar powered trickle charger I can purchase,  for use whilst car is left in airport for two weeks.

Currently awaiting 1st Hybrid  car purchase. Imminent delivery.

Toyota Corolla 2lt GR Sport

Ring make a number of solar chargers, make sure you get one with an OBD plug so you can easily plug it in, they work well enough to keep the Battery topped up, just needs daylight, does not need to be fully sunny to work 

[KWr]

OBD Plug ??

[IanML]

40 minutes ago, KWr said:

OBD Plug ??

Google it.  Idea is to plug into car's diagnostic connector.  Plugging into cigarette lighter usually does not work, as it is disconnected with the ignition off.

[AisinW]

48 minutes ago, KWr said:

Can anyone recommend an intelligent Solar powered trickle charger I can purchase,  for use whilst car is left in airport for two weeks.

Currently awaiting 1st Hybrid  car purchase. Imminent delivery.

Toyota Corolla 2lt GR Sport

2 weeks is not a problem on new Battery. My 6y old Battery still have enough power when I left it for 3 weeks from summer vacation. You need to unplug the 30A DC/CUT, That fuse feeds the remote and body-ECU in standby mode. The brake will still engage if you open the driver door, but you cannot use the remote or light inside the cabin  you need mechanical key to open the door. 

Trickle charge without sophisticated Volt and Ampere regulator is not good, it will overcharge and degrade the Battery more. Minimum it has the ability like Lidl/Aldi charger that regulate to 70mA once the charger reaches 14.5V, and stop completely at 15V. The actual battery voltage after the charger is removed is about 12.9V. 

 

 

[Parts-King]

1 hour ago, KWr said:

OBD Plug ??

A separate plug that goes into the On Board Diagnosis port, it charges through there 

THIS LINK

[Redjohn]

On 1/23/2022 at 12:48 PM, Catlover said:

I do not disagree with you John, but I do think there is much wrong with the product ie standard fit seems to Yuasa, but cars alternative makes fitted suffer to. The problem as I see it is this…. manufacturers try to make cars as light as possible. Toyota, some years ago, decided to put low amphour batteries in their Auris and Prius hybrids to save weight and space (they are physically small). The wife’s car, a 2010 Auris hybrid has one, the 59 plate Prius I had has one. Everything has been absolutely fine UNTIL covid came along. Then cars were not used as much, went days without being run, then came the first winter, 2019-20, and the cold. batteries do not like cold, any battery, so now there is a combination of both lack of I use and cold. All of a sudden this forum was full of cars not starting. Toyota put out a procedure to help batteries, it’s well documented on here ie put car into ready mode for 40-60 minutes twice weekly if car not used. Cars being used regularly for more then a run to the local shop seem to be ok, others are struggling. More then a few on here bought an emergency start battery, about the size of a 6” screen phone, others have bought a smart slow battery charger. Both a good devices but we shouldn’t have to do that.                
I do think the excessive problems that seem to happen with the CHR and now the Gen4 Yaris may have more underlying problems, a power drain somewhere, and that needs to be addressed by Toyota.   
In short, generally speaking, for the current situation we are dealing with the 12 battery is too small power wise and I not sure a bigger powered battery will fit in the space the current battery will go.       
Yes it is up to Toyota to sort. The lack of supply of batteries, where OUR conversation started, could be due to slow production due to the covid, that, and other things, have slowed down production of cars. Not only Toyota but all brands at risk……..and of course shortage of new cars have meant the price of used cars shooting up, which means better trade in when buying new.

Cheers Catlover, and thanks to everyone who has given me advise on this topic. An update: As of this morning (Monday) The dealership have had my vehicle over the weekend to full charge the Battery, have now bench tested it (think that’s the right terminology) and it’s testing find. So now to see if anything in the vehicle is draining it!!!  But I will only know that when it’s back with me on Tuesday!!!! I was not aware to the fact that I must place the vehicle in ready mode for 40 or so mins if not used regularly when I purchased and took delivery. I am now, due to the AA’s advise in Nov 21. So taking this info forward and sitting in the car once a week and doing the shop, auntie visit run along with One 100+ Mile journey once a month, in theory should be enough. So Jan 22 another call out, same advise (replace battery). So it’s going to be “ let’s just see how it goes” nothing more I can do until it fails again. But the problem will be when we go on a two weeks holiday (won’t be able to follow the guidelines) as car will be at the airport car park. Vehicle only 10 months old from new, so won’t be buying a new Battery any time soon as it’s under warranty that’s the easy way out and Toyota should be investigating this problem. I now have a booster pack (just in case).

thanks again guys for the input, really appreciate this.

john   

[AisinW]

Do you have OBD2 scanner? You can check what is the voltage in ACC and IGN ON mode by pressing the power buttons 2x without pressing the brake pedals. You can use Torque Pro Apps. It should be above 12 V on new or good Battery. If it is below 11.5V, it is a dying Battery. 

Dealership can do test how much current is drawn with ampere meter on the Battery.  Our car will stop draining any current after 20 minutes  the car is locked. In the first 20 minutes, it drains about 100 mA from body smart keys system. 

[Redjohn]

8 minutes ago, Redjohn said:

Cheers Catlover, and thanks to everyone who has given me advise on this topic. An update: As of this morning (Monday) The dealership have had my vehicle over the weekend to full charge the battery, have now bench tested it (think that’s the right terminology) and it’s testing find. So now to see if anything in the vehicle is draining it!!!  But I will only know that when it’s back with me on Tuesday!!!! I was not aware to the fact that I must place the vehicle in ready mode for 40 or so mins if not used regularly when I purchased and took delivery. I am now, due to the AA’s advise in Nov 21. So taking this info forward and sitting in the car once a week and doing the shop, auntie visit run along with One 100+ Mile journey once a month, in theory should be enough. So Jan 22 another call out, same advise (replace battery). So it’s going to be “ let’s just see how it goes” nothing more I can do until it fails again. But the problem will be when we go on a two weeks holiday (won’t be able to follow the guidelines) as car will be at the airport car park. Vehicle only 10 months old from new, so won’t be buying a new battery any time soon as it’s under warranty that’s the easy way out and Toyota should be investigating this problem. I now have a booster pack (just in case).

thanks again guys for the input, really appreciate this.

john   

Just to add to the above, it’s ok Toyota  saying to run the vehicle for so long, the only problem with this advise is you have to sit in the vehicle, as leaving it running (live) whilst on a road is against the law and you can and most likely will be fined. Then if so happen to be soo unlucky to have someone drive off with it your insurance will be invalid (either if it’s on road or off road) so no payout, now that would be the icing on the cake.

[KWr]

Thanks AisinW for advice re readings etc,but they are totally beyond  my understanding at the moment.

Just want a simple "Intelligent Solar trickle charger"for when I go on hols in March. Don't want to be locked out at Airport in the early hours of the morning.

1st experience with an Hybrid,just had call that car is coming Tues 1st Feb.

Just concerned re all reports of Batteries letting people down!!