Toyota: advice on 12v battery maintenance

[Parts-King]

Your dealer can order a "Ring" one for you, give them a call, sorted!

[KWr]

Ain't got a dealer yet, cars on private lease. Would imagine the dealer will charge a Premium price.

If you could give me info on which type/model number to get ,it would be appreciated.

I would then check on line.

[Parts-King]

They do models from 1.5W up to 6W don't forget the OBD plug as well 

AMAZON LINK

[KWr]

Parts-King,really  appreciate your advice.

Just seen AA Solar Trickle charger, complete with OBD.

Does it need to be of a certain Wattage/Voltage, for 2ltr Corolla Hybrid?

[Parts-King]

Not really, they trickle charge, a good, new Battery would charge on a 1.5W, if you were worried it was too low, just go for the more expensive 6W version 

[AisinW]

I think, removing the 30A fuse on D/C CUT inside the Fuse/Relay box is more than enough and safer. Connecting things to OBD2 port in long term could be problematic.  I am not sure if there is electrostatic or voltage spike protections that can fry ECU. 

Alternatively, you can buy Supercapacitor Jumpstarter that does not need to be charged and more durable than any Lithium ion Battery in elevated temperature. https://youtu.be/1O1-q3t4FPs .  

Supercapacitor can accumulate enough energy even in flat 12V Battery to start 3L  diesel car.

 

[Dala]

"When a vehicle battery’s charge level drops below 80% and it is not recharged back above this, permanent damage will begin to occur" - Is the value 80% = 11.66V correct?

interesting information is: "Battery warranty will be voided automatically if the vehicle is driven less than 300Miles per month "

The car Battery is not listed as a starter, but as an auxiliary.

The manufacturer writes:  : State of charge indicator - Provides a general visual indication of state of charge. 
Does anyone know that there is an indicator on the Battery? 

source: https://news.yuasa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/LIT066-Yuasa-Vehicle-Battery-Range-Web-1.pdf

[AisinW]

What usually we used as a good parameter is 11.8V for wet cell or 12V for AGM  as the minimum voltage before permanent sulphation damage occurs.  

Our Yuasa S46B24R or S34B20R AGM open voltage(no load) usualy at full charge between 12.8-13V. Floating between 12.2-12.6V under normal driving is fine too. 

With display check in ACC mode, ignition OFF, good 3-5 years  old Battery is about 11.7-12V. With the headlights on for 1 minute, it should not drop below 10V. 

The Car has the best management on the Battery as overcharging cause corrosion and shortlife.  That's why NOCO5 stop at 14.6-14.8V, leaving the open voltage at 12.8V. No overcharging problems. £14 AldiXS or Lidl charger is smart too with cutoff voltage at 15.1V, about 13V on the Battery. Don't use unknown brands from Amazon 5A charger, it has very wild voltage.

[Dala]

3 hours ago, AisinW said:

... 12V for AGM  as the minimum voltage before permanent sulphation damage occurs....

12V for AGM?

I measured when the car was not running:
day 1: (second day): 12.4V - 12.5V
Day 2: 12.2V-12.4V
Day 3: 12.1V-12.2V
Day 4: 12.0 V - 12.1 V
Day 5: 11.9V - 12.0V
Day 6: 11.8V
day 7: 11.7V 

Isn't it possible that the car Battery is being discharged by the Toyota MYT satellite system? 

[IanML]

I suggest you measure the discharge current with a clamp meter.

[Dala]

I'm reading the signal from inside the car over application Pandora
device consumption is <7 mA 

[AisinW]

22 minutes ago, Dala said:

I'm reading the signal from inside the car over application Pandora
device consumption is <7 mA 

If you do not have Clamp meter, you can use Fusebox on the engine bay with Multimeter. It is not good to connect anything to the car when you park, it may drain your Battery.   I measure from the 30 AD/C CUT mini fuse voltage drop for about 0.1 mV or 50 mA in the first 20 minutes after I locked the door. After that, it is completely 0 in D/C Cut.   For the past 6 years, I never had a problem with the 12V Battery yet. https://meet.google.com/nib-gbkj-vqj  It never drop below 12V under no load. 

I am speculating about AGM minimum voltage before permanent sulphation. What I know wet cell is 11.8V or about 30%.   So, it could be 11.9-12V open voltage.  If your car draining some current, you will not get open voltage reading. Ideally, you disconnect the Battery to match that chart.  Ideally we should have 12.3-12.9V.

 

[Dala]

Pandora is car alarm with consumption <7 mA

https://www.pandora-alarm.eu/pandora-smart-pro/

[AisinW]

Just now, Dala said:

Pandora is car alarm with consumption <7 mA

https://www.pandora-alarm.eu/pandora-smart-pro/

I am afraid Pandora consume more than they stated.  My Battery is still above 12V after 1 week and it is already 6 years old.  My highest typical voltage is only 12.5V now, never gets higher than that even after 1 hour drive.

[Dala]

Yes you're right
condition car Battery will be different under low power consumption

https://workshoppist.com/agm-battery-state-of-charge/

[Miffymiffmiffed]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:36 PM, JackieP said:

Thank you for replying. I'm assuming ready mode is foot on brake and press start button. Guess take a good book to read and sit there for an hour. Toyota don't show that in their adverts. Not everyone has the time or inclination to sit there for an hour. It's not ideal is it?

Hi

I have a dec 2020 Yaris hybrid and I’ve just had my 12v Battery go flat for the second time.

today I also discovered my AA breakdown cover expired in November and nobody wrote to invite me to renew  it, leaving me stranded on my own drive this morning.

I fortunately managed to cadge a jump start, and have been for a spin, so immediate problem has been resolved, but AA man that came out last time said this was a common problem with Toyota hybrids, as he said (quote) ‘Toyota use ******* batteries’.

I don’t think it’s ideal that a supposedly eco friendly car should need to be driven twice a week if I don’t actually need to go anywhere, and I certainly don’t feel I was well informed by Toyota at the time of purchase!

 

[AisinW]

19 minutes ago, Miffymiffmiffed said:

e said (quote) ‘Toyota use ******* batteries’.

I don’t think it’s ideal that a supposedly eco friendly car should need to be driven twice a week if I don’t actually need to go anywhere, and I certainly don’t feel I was well informed by Toyota at the time of purchase!

 

You still have 3 full years warranty and can get free Battery replacement.  I don't know about the actual problems in Yaris and Corolla 2019- .  We rarely have problems in Auris and Prius even with the same exact Yuasa S34B20R Battery, they are normally last at least 5 years.  Either it is bad batch or some draining Battery issue on Yaris. 

I always have jumpstarter cable in all of my car, but I think $20 jump starter or 400Amps is enough for hybrid.  We may need to charge that battery every 2 months and keep it at about 50-60% so it will last long.  Lithium battery does not like in full charge state too long, it degrades the cathode.  All my laptop battery still 90% capacity after 3-4 years because I managed it in Bios or Dell, Lenovo, Apple, etc. power manager set max only 60% charged and will start charging only when it is below 50%.  

[Miffymiffmiffed]

1 minute ago, AisinW said:

You still have 3 full years warranty and can get free battery replacement.  I don't know about the actual problems in Yaris and Corolla 2019- .  We rarely have problems in Auris and Prius even with the same exact Yuasa S34B20R battery, they are normally last at least 5 years.  Either it is bad batch or some draining battery issue on Yaris. 

Thanks.  I last drove my car 8 days ago, so I can’t see how it has gone flat in that space of time, it just seems ridiculous to me, in what is a relatively new car too!

I drove a clapped out mini 40 years ago that gave me less trouble!

I will contact the dealer, as you advise.

[Catlover]

49 minutes ago, Miffymiffmiffed said:

Hi

I have a dec 2020 Yaris hybrid and I’ve just had my 12v battery go flat for the second time.

today I also discovered my AA breakdown cover expired in November and nobody wrote to invite me to renew  it, leaving me stranded on my own drive this morning.

I fortunately managed to cadge a jump start, and have been for a spin, so immediate problem has been resolved, but AA man that came out last time said this was a common problem with Toyota hybrids, as he said (quote) ‘Toyota use ******* batteries’.

I don’t think it’s ideal that a supposedly eco friendly car should need to be driven twice a week if I don’t actually need to go anywhere, and I certainly don’t feel I was well informed by Toyota at the time of purchase!

 

Actually Toyota use very good batteries, Yuasa, highly rated, so you AA man is out of order.

[AisinW]

The 12V battery  problem must be solved by a new Battery.  You report it to your dealership, so if your pass 3 years, you can still claim to Toyota outside warranty period because you had the documentation.  My neighbor has 2.0 Corolla and he had problem too, they replace the 12V Battery with the updated higher capacity version that still fit in the trunk. No problem anymore.  I suggest you get a good quality jumpstarter like NOCO or midgrade Audew, Tacklife, or Aukey. Hybrid only take 100Amps to start. Any brand will work, for safety  buy known brands and it is easy to resale too. 

[Roy124]

13 minutes ago, AisinW said:

they replace the 12V battery with the updated higher capacity version that still fit in the trunk

First confirmation of my experience, in my case under bonnet, but a 52 Ah vice 45.  The new Battery is made in Spain. 

[Stivino]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

Actually Toyota use very good batteries, Yuasa, highly rated, so you AA man is out of order.

Given Toyota’s relationships with Panasonic and Denso, I would have thought one of them would have been the Battery supplier of choice by Toyota.

[Roy124]

I imagine trade agreements and logistics have much to do with it.  In Panasonic and Denzo are more expensive at the point of installation a less expensive option will win. 

[Parts-King]

Toyota source batteries from all over the world, just looking at some on the shelf here and I have Turkey, Italy, Spain and Korea without bending down LOL

[Roy124]

Ah so

 

😉