Toyota: advice on 12v battery maintenance

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Miffymiffmiffed said:

today I also discovered my AA breakdown cover expired in November and nobody wrote to invite me to renew  it, leaving me stranded on my own drive this morning.

To be honest the car was supplied with one year breakdown cover and it doesn't take great management skills to have made a note of the expiry date in order to renew it either with Toyota or a third party provider.

We've had new cars from a variety of manufacturers, and haven't always been notified of when their breakdown cover was due to end.

What happens when your car is due for service?

A clapped out 40 year old mini will be nowhere near as complex as any of todays cars - whether that is an Aygo or a Landcruiser - and Toyota hybrids are not the only cars of today to be having Battery issues when the car has periods of little use.

What you haven't said is how regularly the car is used and whether that is for short journeys, long journeys or whatever. 

2 hours ago, Miffymiffmiffed said:

I certainly don’t feel I was well informed by Toyota at the time of purchase!

Which would have been the dealer who sold you the car rather than Toyota.

[Roy124]

Frosty, actually Toyota was keen to get me to renew.  Oddly they only reminded me of my 2 year service through offering me a repayment review. 

My Toyota it quite happy telling me my service is due at 19,999 miles but seemingly unaware of the 2 years service requirement. 

[Steve_w]

On 7/19/2021 at 7:57 AM, Catlover said:

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I went down to our local garage yesterday to talk with the service guys.  I recently had my 2020 RAV4 Battery go flat and my wife’s 2020 CHR went flat in October after being left for two weeks on holiday.  Comment was that there is a know issue with CHR batteries but they have not seen a problem with the RAV4.  I was told that I could charge the RAV4 Battery in situ with a trickle charge.  The breakdown man told me not to do that as it can blow the electronics.  This information came from various Toyota dealers. 
 

 Now I’m not sure what to do.  Both cars do low mileage and Toyota may wriggle out of a free replacement if the issue continues.  I'm going to try the one hour charge in READY mode

[AisinW]

29 minutes ago, Steve_w said:

I went down to our local garage yesterday to talk with the service guys.  I recently had my 2020 RAV4 battery go flat and my wife’s 2020 CHR went flat in October after being left for two weeks on holiday.  Comment was that there is a know issue with CHR batteries but they have not seen a problem with the RAV4.  I was told that I could charge the RAV4 battery in situ with a trickle charge.  The breakdown man told me not to do that as it can blow the electronics.  This information came from various Toyota dealers. 
 

 Now I’m not sure what to do.  Both cars do low mileage and Toyota may wriggle out of a free replacement if the issue continues.  I'm going to try the one hour charge in READY mode

It may blow the electronic if you buy unknown chinese charger from Amazon with wild inacurate voltage.  You can safely use Lidl or Aldi 5 A charger, they are well regulated in both V and current.  The best one is Noco5 so far with solid controller 3 optocoupler and coated PCB boards, CTEK5 is slightly cheaper with 1 optocoupler but don't keep it in humid area. 

The cutoff voltage in NOCO with AGM is 14.6V, just like the car DCtoDC converter, Aldi XS 15.1V, Lidl 14.8V, CTEK 14.8V. You can hook up fast conect in NOCO5 and CTEK by removing the eyelet on the aligator clips.  I prefer LIDL than ALDI charger because of lower cutoff voltage, but LIDL charger will not continue charging after outage, others do. 

[KWr]

20 minutes ago, AisinW said:

It may blow the elctronic if you buy unknown chinese charger from Amazon with wild inacurate voltage.  You can safely use Lidl or Aldi 5 A charger, they are well regulated in both V and current.  The best one is Noco5 so far with solid controller 3 optocoupler and coated PCB boards, CTEK5 is slightly cheaper with 1 optocoupler but don't keep it in humid area. 

The cutoff voltage in NOCO with AGM is 14.6V, just like the car DCtoDC converter, Aldi XS 15.1V, Lidl 14.8V, CTEK 14.8V. You can hooks up fast conect in NOCO5 and CTEK by removing the eyelet on the aligator clips.  I prefer LIDL than ALDI charger because of lower cutoff voltage, but LIDL chaeger will not continue charging after outage, others do. 

I have the AA Solar trickle charger,would this be suitable?

[AisinW]

8 minutes ago, KWr said:

I have the AA Solar trickle charger,would this be suitable?

I think Solar is a good known brand. Is there any info of the cutoff voltage?  You can measure it what is the max voltage when almost full. Lidl and CTEK charger shows the V and I curves, very useful info. 

Don't do REPAIR MODE and connected to the car. The voltage can be as high as 16.5V although in pulse mode. It is meant to desulfate Battery and often will still dead. 

Trickle charger usually at really low amperage, but not all of them will stop charging at one point. Lidl, Aldi, NOCO, CTEK will do trickle and will completely stop at max specific Voltage. The will trickle charge again once the voltage drop. €15 Lidl charger is a good value. 

[Catlover]

I use a CTEX 5, slow charger, about 4 times per year to keep 12v up to scratch.   It then occasionally do the Ready mode for 30-40 minutes (time depends on lack of use). About 70£, it will slow charge up to 100% but that can take 6-8 hours, worth it though, and you can unplug at end of day, reconnect next day and it will pick up from where it left off.

yes, an AA solar panel will be ok, probably best to disconnect before using car.

[Roy124]

Cat, you answered a question I posed before "do you use a charger regularly?". 

We are off to the airport in 4 weeks.  The car will obviously get a good run beforehand but a CTEK run before hand won't hurt. 

Aisin said you can :

" You can hook up fast conect in NOCO5 and CTEK by removing the eyelet on the aligator clips."

My CTEK came with both an eyelet connection and an alligator connection.  You could hard wire one car and use clips on another. 

I have also wall mounted my charger and fitted a long lead to the Battery cable. 

[AisinW]

4 weeks is doable. Just charge it full before your trip, and disconnect the D/C CUT on the fuse box if you have 2.0L corolla, Auris, or Yaris. 

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Cat, you answered a question I posed before "do you use a charger regularly?". 

We are off to the airport in 4 weeks.  The car will obviously get a good run beforehand but a CTEK run before hand won't hurt. 

I do a charge late November, late January (on a nice day)  and then  May time.  Its no trouble doing it, takes minutes to  connect then just leave it to do its stuff.

[AisinW]

I never use external charger in the past. Only recently in January 2022 because i am curious about external charger for my 6y old S34B20R 35Ah Battery.  

In short, there is no need for external charger under normal driving habit (30 mins a day).

REPAIR Mode does nothing on normally worn Battery. Use a good charger if you don't drive for 2 weeks or more. I tried all the features and may get end voltage from 12.6-13.1V, but after put it on Load for 10 or 15 minutes on ACC IGN On mode, it always saturate to 11.7. After turning  it off, the voltage bounce back to 12.4V. 

Amperage clampmeter is more useful to monitor any parasitic drain if you keep getting flat Battery. 

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, AisinW said:

I never use external charger in the past. Only recently in January 2022 because i am curious about external charger for my 6y old S34B20R 35Ah battery.  

In short, there is no need for external charger under normal driving habit (30 mins a day).. 

Agree, and that’s the whole reason why we have the CTEX 5, covid and lockdown at one time reduced us to using the car once a week, mine one week, wife’s the other. That’s no good….effectively fortnightly, and then only going to local store 2 miles away. Everyone, or almost everyone will have reduced mileage over last two years so have needed to do something.

[Roy124]

On 2/3/2022 at 3:36 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

To be honest the car was supplied with one year breakdown cover and it doesn't take great management skills to have made a note of the expiry date in order to renew it either with Toyota or a third party provider.

We've had new cars from a variety of manufacturers, and haven't always been notified of when their breakdown cover was due to end.

What happens when your car is due for service?

A clapped out 40 year old mini will be nowhere near as complex as any of todays cars - whether that is an Aygo or a Landcruiser - and Toyota hybrids are not the only cars of today to be having battery issues when the car has periods of little use.

What you haven't said is how regularly the car is used and whether that is for short journeys, long journeys or whatever. 

Which would have been the dealer who sold you the car rather than Toyota.

Just re-checked my Toyota breakdown cover.  It would normally renew on the anniversary of the car.  I forgot, because of Covid all renewals from 2020 were automatically extended by 3 months. 

That could throw you. 

As it happens my new deferred date of 1st June will fit well with a new car.  If we have nothing planned until the change then I can skip the renewal.  If we do, I can renew just before a trip and cancel within 14 days. 

I did this once by chance.  I took out Green Flag Continental cover immediately before a trip.  On return, thinking that I might get a rebate, I called them up.  It was within the 14 days and I got a full refund even though they had been at risk and I told them that. 

[Clandon-Man]

Please could you confirm if it is OK to recharge the Battery from the mains using a charger while the Battery is still in situ, in my case in the rear of the car? If so I will acquire one of the suggested trickle chargers listed above to solve my ongoing 12V Battery poor charge retention.

[AisinW]

19 minutes ago, Clandon-Man said:

Please could you confirm if it is OK to recharge the battery from the mains using a charger while the battery is still in situ, in my case in the rear of the car? If so I will acquire one of the suggested trickle chargers listed above to solve my ongoing 12V battery poor charge retention.

If the Battery cannot hold a charge for more than few days, just replace it and save your sanity. Dying degrading Battery is not good for your ECU and your health. 

You can charge directly from the fuse box (+) and negative to any bare metal on the body. The charging speed is practically the same as if you do it from the trunk. 

[Catlover]

I do it with my Prius and the wife’s Auris. Do you have a charging point under the bonnet.?

[AisinW]

15 minutes ago, Catlover said:

I do it with my Prius and the wife’s Auris. Do you have a charging point under the bonnet.?

There is always charging point under the hood in all Japanese cars. Usually directly from 12V Battery or inside a fuse box.  

The entire fusebox is  + terminal, anywhere you can clip is +. In Auris, it is right on the red removable cap. The body is always the - terminal. I often use any bolts or flat bare metal on engines area.

If you want long lasting excellent charger, get NOCO5. It is efficient, not hot, excellent compponents (metal switch, 3 optocouplers, large capacitors, cooled and sealed well). Otherwise Lidl or Aldi charger is as good as CTEK5 in term of charging quality and components. 

[Clandon-Man]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:04 PM, Catlover said:

I do it with my Prius and the wife’s Auris. Do you have a charging point under the bonnet.?

Based on AisinW response, I now know I do.  So basically it's the same terminal points as used for a jump start but far more conveneint when the electronic tailgate is inoperarable. Thanks.

[Clandon-Man]

1 hour ago, AisinW said:

There is always charging point under the hood in all Japanese cars. Usually directly from 12V battery or inside a fuse box.  

The entire fusebox is  + terminal, anywhere you can clip is +. In Auris, it is right on the red removable cap. The body is always the - terminal. I often use any bolts or flat bare metal on engines area.

If you want long lasting excellent charger, get NOCO5. It is efficient, not hot, excellent compponents (metal switch, 3 optocouplers, large capacitors, cooled and sealed well). Otherwise Lidl or Aldi charger is as good as CTEK5 in term of charging quality and components. 

Thanks, I've ordered an NOCO GENIUS5UK 5-Amp for Saturday delivery. All good advice.

[Cyker]

It should be safe to charge the Battery in-situ - It will not damage the car's electronics (They experience the charging voltage when the car is running anyway).

If yours is a hybrid, DevonAygo recommends NOT trying to charge it through the + terminal in the fusebox however, but to instead use some fly-leads attached to the Battery directly. Apparently the fusebox [+] doesn't go directly to the 12v Battery, but is connected via the DC-DC converter, and was only meant to energize the 12v system enough so you can power the car on and engage the traction battery.

 

[Steve_w]

I get conflicting stories about how to charge my RAV4. The man who jumped my car said a number of dealers had told him to not use the terminal in the fuse box as it can screw the electronics.  However, my local garage said it was ok to use it.  So I’m confused 

[AisinW]

39 minutes ago, Steve_w said:

I get conflicting stories about how to charge my RAV4. The man who jumped my car said a number of dealers had told him to not use the terminal in the fuse box as it can screw the electronics.  However, my local garage said it was ok to use it.  So I’m confused 

It is 100% Ok. If you can jump start from  there with 60Amps to start the car, why 5 A harm it.   Fuse box is just bunch of wires,  no electronic. Only Relays which are purely mechanical device too.  There is nothing to worry on the fuse box. That Fuse box is entirely 12V +, nothing is high voltage. The DC to DC converter connected to 12V Battery through fusebox and that's just like the alternator connection to 12V Battery. It is rated as high as 100Amps but stil 12V. Nothing is special. That + Post in fuse box is the only Approved place to connect the charger or jump starter to make sure good solid connection. Better than directly to the Battery with non flat surface. 

[IanML]

20 hours ago, Cyker said:

If yours is a hybrid, DevonAygo recommends NOT trying to charge it through the + terminal in the fusebox however, but to instead use some fly-leads attached to the battery directly. Apparently the fusebox [+] doesn't go directly to the 12v battery, but is connected via the DC-DC converter, and was only meant to energize the 12v system enough so you can power the car on and engage the traction battery.

 

I have difficulty understanding that.  Are we to believe that the Battery charging current (say 5A) will be too much for the cabling between the fuse box terminal and the Battery?  Mention of the dc/dc converter seems to me to be a red herring, as the charging current would obviously not pass through the converter.  I would welcome a more reasoned explanation.

[AisinW]

2 hours ago, IanML said:

I have difficulty understanding that.  Are we to believe that the battery charging current (say 5A) will be too much for the cabling between the fuse box terminal and the battery?  Mention of the dc/dc converter seems to me to be a red herring, as the charging current would obviously not pass through the converter.  I would welcome a more reasoned explanation.

Because it does not makes sense.  5A is nothing. When you jump start the car, You apply at least 60 Amps in Auris/Prius.  DCtoDC converter can deliver up to 120+A 

[Parts-King]

The number of requests I get here for blown main fuses, the general public should not be let anywhere near jump starting their car, the majority don't have a scooby doo, poking about not knowing what they are doing

Customer: Can i have a main fuse please?

Me: Have you jump started it the wrong way round?

Customer: Oh no, it just blew

Me: ..........................................................tumbleweed