Toyota: advice on 12v battery maintenance

[TonyHSD]

28 minutes ago, Tee_J said:

Hi all,

New to this site having purchased a Toyota Estima (2008).

Recently, my auxiliary 12V battery went kaput!  The cause? Sitting unused for extended periods of time. 😞 I went on a search and chanced across this site, and via the Estima forum, found the part number and was able to purchase a new battery (£210!!) from a local Lexus parts store.

My question: is it possible that I could have used the device recommended a few time under this thread - CTEK 5 - to get that previous battery into good health?
It's a bit late for me obvs, but that could help someone else with the same issue. 😉 That is why I am posting my comment.

Cheers!

Hi, yes it would have been possible to get old Battery back to life with ctek charger but only if it wasn’t completely dead, once the Battery loose certain capacity it’s beyond recharge and even you have try to save it it won’t last more than a day or two. Usually chargers are used to keep Battery at correct charge levels and pro long the life of it if the car has not been used daily or only on very short trips. It is a good investment to purchase a ctek charger and keep topping up your new battery if you are not using your car frequently. 

[IanML]

Yes, it's possible, but if the Battery has been allowed to discharge completely (or nearly so) several times, it is probable too far gone.

£210 sounds very expensive.  One has to wonder what makes this Battery so costly.

[Tee_J]

1 hour ago, IanML said:

£210 sounds very expensive.  One has to wonder what makes this battery so costly.

I agree! I could not believe the price..! I don't think it could be the heat venting and temperature sensor that could drive up the price...but I may be wrong. 

@TonyHSD: Thank you for the feedback. A "passing mechanic" I happened to come across who was armed with his measuring equipment, told me the Battery was not holding charge at all. The AA man that recovered my family & I back home, pretty much told me the same thing.  

[Cyker]

How big is the Battery?? I remember my dad had to get a new Battery for his old Merc E-Class (Awful awful car!) and it was similarly expensive, but when I saw it I could see why as it was twice the size of any car Battery I'd seen before! It was the size of two stuck together  Still only 12v tho'!

Apparently he'd tried to cheap out on a normal-sized battery before getting that one, but it was dead in half a year...

 

[Dala]

https://www.countybattery.co.uk/images/companies/1/HJ-S34B20L-A.pdf?1536313603283

[AisinW]

HJ-S34B20L(UK/Ireland)   or HJ-S34B20R (mainland EU), get from your local dealer or online seller nearby.   It is not cheap, about £170 but it is the right Battery and will last long, > 6 years if you do not neglect it or let it completely drained from not driving it for few months. 

Not all AGM Battery are made equally.  Some Corolla 2.0L owner with VARTA AGM Battery complained that the battery is defective after only few months.  The same thing with cheaper Optima Yellow Top aftermarket battery, they worked but very large variations of quality. Some died in less than 3 years under normal usages. 

What I know, larger cars like Camry use Panasonic AGM battery with slightly larger size and capacity. 

[Catlover]

I use an Optima Yellow Top in the wife’s Auris for the last 3.5 years, it went down last winter but I look after it with  CTEK 5 charger.

[AisinW]

12 minutes ago, Catlover said:

I use an Optima Yellow Top in the wife’s Auris for the last 3.5 years, it went down last winter but I look after it with  CTEK 5 charger.

My Optima Yellow Top last more than 4 years until  I sold it too.  I just knew the wide variety of O YT from forums, not my personal experience.  But my original Yuasa last 8 years before getting Optima. As I posted before, even after 6 years, the original HJ-S34B20R  is still really good, just fuel and go, no charging or extra stuff. 

The voltage 11.9V when IGN on (2x power buttons) means still good but not new anymore.  Dying Battery often read below 11V when the ignition is on although still can start the car.  I noticed that the interior light turn off automatically even when I leave the door opened after few minutes. The same thing with the light in front of the make-up mirrors, it turned off by itself too.  No wonder, I never have drained issues from forgetting those light.   

[Tee_J]

I'd love to get and use this CTEK 5 charger however we live in an apartment block and the car is in a secure car park that is nowhere near the apartment neither does it have any electrical outlets. 

Are they any alternatives that anyone is aware of that could achieve the same result? 

Thanks to this post and to @robo1, I discovered that I could purchase a car cigarette socket USB charger that also displayed the voltage of the auxiliary battery so I now have one in the car and it's been reporting good voltage (>14V). Thanks for the information! 👍

Cheers! 

[AisinW]

As long as you have original Yuasa HJ-S34B20R ,  nothing to worry about in 6-7 years.  Just do not park the car for more than 1 month without removing A/C CUT on the Fuse-box.  This is easier than unplugging negative terminal on the Battery and we do not loose the memory on the radio.   A/C CUT will disable remote system, so you have to use key to open the door later. 

There is never ever need of any Battery maintainer under normal condition or if we drive the car at least once a week for 10 miles or more.  

 

[AisinW]

1 hour ago, Tee_J said:

I'd love to get and use this CTEK 5 charger however we live in an apartment block and the car is in a secure car park that is nowhere near the apartment neither does it have any electrical outlets. 

Are they any alternatives that anyone is aware of that could achieve the same result? 

Thanks to this post and to @robo1, I discovered that I could purchase a car cigarette socket USB charger that also displayed the voltage of the auxiliary battery so I now have one in the car and it's been reporting good voltage (>14V). Thanks for the information! 👍

Cheers! 

That 14V means you detect the DC to DC converter charger or Alternator in old-cars not your 12V Battery.  The Battery can only be tested by pressing the power bottons 2X without touching the brake pedals.  It is usually between 11.5 - 12.2 V in normal working Battery.    Mine was 11.7-11.9V in winter time.  You can still use your cigarette socket USB charger that display the voltage on that ports.   If the cars is completely off, you can always use the Fuse box or the battery terminal directly to measure  the Off-state (nearly open circuit) voltage without load.  It should be above 12V in most cases. For that, we need Voltmeter or £10 Multimeter. 

[Dala]

"

On 11/25/2021 at 3:02 PM, AisinW said:

...The battery can only be tested by pressing the power bottons 2X without touching the brake pedals....

I thought that Battery testing is only possible in service mode. The car Battery voltage is displayed. 

[AisinW]

56 minutes ago, Dala said:

"

I thought that battery testing is only possible in service mode. The car battery voltage is displayed. 

If you have a capable OBD2-scanner like CARISTA with fully support ELM327 protocols, you can use Dr. PRIUS (free apps) and check your basic health including HV hybrid Battery internal resistance and individual Battery modules.  With Ignition On, any voltage > 11 V is OK and the you can start without issues to READY mode.  Below 10V, you cannot start the car.  Mine read 11.7 V with Ignition IG ON, headlight and any load like blower motor/AC will reduce the voltage even more down and as long as it is above 10V, the Battery is still OK.    Prius can have vehicle Signal Check Mode without any scanner tools just turn the headlight On and Off slowly 3x.  I tried on my Auris 2015, it goes to this kind of mode but no option on Vehicle Signal Check Mode. So, I have to use Voltmeter or my CARISTA OBD-2 Scanner.  I used Torque pro that you can get the source code from https://www.apkmart.net/app/torque-pro-apk-download/  for more options and still free.  I can use Prius Gen III for Auris because it is exactly the same power train https://priuschat.com/attachments/geniii-prius-4-24-12-zip.37079/  .   For other cars, probably someone in Forum has the profile.  I can monitor a lot of things including all temperatures in HV battery, engine, throttle body, etc) , fuel ratios, oxygen sensors, calculated load, etc.  

[Dala]

82 / 5000

scanner tools just turn the headlight on and off 3 times - this is service mode, right?

 

you write : 

With Ignition On, any voltage > 11 V is OK and the you can start without issues to READY mode.  Below 10V, you cannot start the car.  

Mine read 11.7 V with Ignition IG ON, headlight and any load like blower motor/AC will reduce the voltage even more down and as long as it is above 10V, the Battery is still OK.    

is the car Battery voltage information really correct?
 

 

[AisinW]

The AGM voltage table you show is the reading of  Battery Off the car (open circuit, no load).  Once you connect Battery to any load or external load, the voltage reading always dropped depends on the total resistance of the load. My dead Battery reads 12.2V using voltmeter open circuit but once I connect it to the car and ignition on, the voltage was only 10.3V. It was 9 years old battery.   It is still able to start the car occasionally. 

What I tried to explain is High school Voltmeter reading principle.  Open circuit = infinite resistance.  Your headlight, AC blower, etc. has relatively low resistance and the internal resistance inside the battery shows some effect.  New battery has very low internal resistance. 

Typical Normal Healthy Batter:  IGN ON > 11 V, typically 11.7-12V in new battery.  Headlight On > 10.5V, typically 11.2-11.5V in new battery.  My dying battery shows close to 10V when IGN was on.   If you go to READY mode, the voltage must be 14.1-14.4 V, it is the voltage of the DCtoDC converter.   That's why we cannot jump start other car with hybrid because DCtoDC converter does not have high Amperage rate to start regular car.  So don't jump start other non hybrid/EV car but you can get help/jumped start from any car. 

 

 

[Dala]

AGM car Battery voltage under load :

Are these values wrong ?

[AisinW]

Read high-school physics text book.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance

That table is absolutely not practical in the car. There is never ever a time with that small discharge rate when the IGN ON. 

[AisinW]

8 hours ago, Dala said:

AGM car battery voltage under load :

Are these values wrong ?

When you read the signal from inside the car, your car usually at IGN ON state, it is already under heavy load. The reading is accurate,  exactly the same as you measure it with the Voltmeter on the Battery terminals. 

You need to remove the negative terminal of the Battery from the car to measure the open circuit and only use multimeter if you are curious. £5 from Amazon. Then you can read the open circuit voltage. In short, you can forget that table. It is unpractical. 

Afterall, don't spend money in unnecessary replacement. Replace tha auxiliary  Battery only when it is dying, don't worry too much. Don't fix if it ain't broken. It is Toyota way. Most Yuasa AGM battery last 7-10 years. 3rd gen Prius and Auris II are pretty smart, the internal lights automatically off after few minutes, rarely discharged from that cause. 

When charging AGM battery, the amperage must me small and stable, it cannot handle fast charging.  That's why it is not a good idea charging it with add on equipment. The car DCtoDC converter can do charging better with  smarter managament system.   

[Dala]

I'm reading the signal from inside the car over application Pandora

I don't need to have the IGN ON

device consumption is <7 mA 

 

[AisinW]

Exactly, it is 12.6V because almost no load. When you put load in IGN On , headlight, and AC blower, it will drop for sure below 12V. 

[Dala]

If I do not drive the vehicle for 7 days, the voltage is 11.8V

Toyota therefore recommends that the vehicle be on standby once a week for at least 1 hour 

[AisinW]

51 minutes ago, Dala said:

If I do not drive the vehicle for 7 days, the voltage is 11.8V

Toyota therefore recommends that the vehicle be on standby once a week for at least 1 hour 

I never worry about 12v Battery even leaving it for  weeks vacations since 2006 in Prius and Auris. People who never own hybrid before overthinking about it. It is simple durable car that needs regular oil change. Just don't touch the AC and HV system if never work with cars. Just remove the A/C CUT fuse to stop the body and remote control Battery standby if you leave the car for months or more than 30 days. But if you install non original AGM Yuasa/Panasonic Battery, the story may be different. There are some TSB about 12V. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10140592-9999.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiaw4KblMv0AhV8if0HHeGhA9QQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0NXFIM0HijY4S5LwCeZgNZ

Like I said, the car will still start if the voltage of the 12V battery do not drop below 10V when you try to start the car. It will not start ot throw error code about transmission if the voltage drops below 10V. At least that's in 2nd gen Prius. I never have dead battery in 3rd gen/Auris yet

[AisinW]

You have a very new good Yaris Hybrid. It is in the 4th gen hybrid powertrain. It uses 1.5L engines that proven to be extremely reliable. Better than 1.8L in Prius 2010-2014 in terms of problems after 150k miles. It does not have oil consumptiok problem, head gasket, clogged EGR valves, etc like 1.8L.  Just change the transmission fluid every 60k miles religiously because it has no transmission water cooling. It only has oil cooling, the ATF is the lubricant and coolant at the same time in Yaris HSD. The 12V Battery last long too, 7-9 years without any special treatment. Just drive and relax with it.

[FlatYaris]

On 3/9/2021 at 5:08 PM, JackieP said:

Could somebody please give me some advice. I purchased a brand new Yaris Hybrid in Dec 20. I travel short journeys only, approx 10 mins to work. It is used on a daily basis even through lockdown as I'm a key worker. I probably cover about 200 miles a month. A few days ago it broke down, every warning light and message possible flashed (brake failure, power steering failure etc). It's less than 3 months old. Toyota have said that it was caused through a low Battery. Is this possible. I thought that the Battery recharged when being driven but this is the 1st hybrid I've had so could easily be wrong. They are going to fit an easy charging point to the Battery as its under the seat so pretty inaccessible and have suggested charging it for between 2-6 hours every 2-3 months. Is this normal for a new hybrid. I certainly wasn't expecting to have to do this and just wanted to check if anyone else has experienced this and what they did about it. TIA.

Toyota have more or less admitted to me that the Yaris 12v Battery isn't up to the job.  I would suggest steer clear of buying any Toyotas until they provide equipment that is.  A slight drop in sales may spur them into action. 

[Parts-King]

22 minutes ago, FlatYaris said:

Toyota have more or less admitted to me that the Yaris 12v battery isn't up to the job.  I would suggest steer clear of buying any Toyotas until they provide equipment that is.  A slight drop in sales may spur them into action. 

Don't believe that for one minute, you look like somebody with an axe to grind by your forum handle