Plug in hybrid?

[TonyHSD]

Correct, and because Toyota e-cvt are not the transmissions suitable for race driving which ironically is the new norm for ‘normal driving’ also called “ keeping up with traffic flow “ these cars are not favourite to the press and many car owners that waiting some morons to tell them what car is best for them, petrol or diesel , hybrid or full ev. The time the majority of car owners realise that ecvt is better option for day to day driving ice cars will be very few, the alternative fuel vehicles will dominate, but that time is closer than ever with the pandemic going on around the world what supposed to happen in 5-10 years time will happen in just 3-5 years from now. 👍

[HectorG]

6 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

For some reason, most of the British motoring press see CVT as some sort of insult to humanity. If they got over this irrational hatred, they might be less dismissive of the Toyota hybrids.

Consumer magazines like What Car never mention the fundamental problems with other types of gearbox such as the DSG type particularly favoured by VW. Apart from their dreadful reliability record, they tend to have an inbuilt lag - maybe not as extreme as a Saab 900 turbo I had in the ‘90’s, but still extremely irritating.

I seem to remember that the PHV’s transmission is actually what they call E-CVT, adapted from the standard Prius for use in the hydrogen powered Mirai and the plug-in Prius. It is far from being what most people regard as a conventional CVT, as in Subarus, Nissans or even Toyota’s own Corolla, in that the car can run on the electric motors only, unlike most other hybrids which can’t . Essentially, a computer directs the power flow from the different engine/motor sources and this power split achieves the benefits of a CVT except the torque/speed conversion uses an electric motor rather than a direct mechanical gear train connection.

This system, which is essentially a refinement of the original HSD, has been in production and continually improved and developed by Toyota for nearly 25 years and is considered to be a generation ahead of its rivals in terms of engineering. But of course the 20-somethings who write for these comics are not interested in engineering, reliability and longevity - they are obsessed with brand image and performance.

[HSDish]

7 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

For some reason, most of the British motoring press see CVT as some sort of insult to humanity. If they got over this irrational hatred, they might be less dismissive of the Toyota hybrids.

It's the same here , with Swedish motor press. Some of them do admitt that Toyota Prius Plug In 2017 - 19 are the most fuel/energy efficent car around, though

[Ten Ninety]

For some time, my assumption has been that motoring press reviews are more dependent on the level of hospitality / expenses / gifts / outright bungs offered by the manufacturer, than any objective assessment of the product. I have absolutely no evidence to back that up, of course, but it is the only explanation I have for their illogical and uninformed opinions.

It would appear that VAG and JLR offer a better class of bribe, as models from all their brands are invariably lavished with praise despite their many, many failings. Mercedes aren't far behind, whilst Kia and Hyundai have also seemingly bought their way in recently. BMW must have cut back on their hospitality budget, as I've detected a little more criticism directed at them recently.

Toyota presumably prefer to spend their money on engineering proper cars that don't fall apart, although someone might have splashed out a bit for the Corolla launch as that gets positive reviews despite having the same drivetrain 'flaws' for which others are criticised. As for Lexus, I can only assume that someone from Lexus ran off with some editor's wife - or perhaps several of them - as the brand never seems to get much by way of favourable press. Which makes it all the funnier when the magazines report on the 'Driver Power' survey or whatever it's called, and have to note that Lexus have come top. Again.

[Joseph D]

18 hours ago, HectorG said:

...   that the PHV’s transmission is actually what they call E-CVT, adapted from the standard Prius   ...

I'm not sure if I am missing something, but all Toyota hybrids use e-CVT – the (essentially) same HSD (hybrid synergy drive).  I'm not aware of any adaptation for the PHEV, but happy to be wrong. 

I take your point about conventional CVTs, I have been driving a Honda Fit (aka Jazz) with a CVT for a bit lately, and it is horrible. Fells really laggy like a rubber band that wound up, then let loose.  Not at all like the sure footedness of a Toyota hybrid.

18 hours ago, HectorG said:

in that the car can run on the electric motors only, unlike most other hybrids which can’t

Agreed that Toyota hybrids will not run as an EV on electric motors (at speed anyway), but the electric motors are definitely integral in making it go, at any speed.

I apologise if I have misunderstood your points, I was having difficulty following your post.

On 4/30/2020 at 7:50 PM, QuantumFireball said:

For some reason, most of the British motoring press see CVT as some sort of insult to humanity.

As mentioned above, if their experience is similar to mine, I can understand.  The Toyota e-CVT on the other hand is apples and oranges.

 

[QuantumFireball]

1 hour ago, Joseph D said:

I'm not sure if I am missing something, but all Toyota hybrids use e-CVT – the (essentially) same HSD (hybrid synergy drive).  I'm not aware of any adaptation for the PHEV, but happy to be wrong.

The 2nd generation PHV has an additional one-way clutch to allow MG1 to work in the same direction as MG2 and provide extra power to the wheels in EV mode.

The 1st generation like mine is a bit lacking in power as only MG2 does the work in EV mode (MG2 is less powerful than the current transaxle too), hence "milk float mode". Fine for urban driving though.

[Joseph D]

Now that you mention it, I do recall reading something to that effect.

Many thanks.

[Ten Ninety]

7 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

The 2nd generation PHV has an additional one-way clutch to allow MG1 to work in the same direction as MG2 and provide extra power to the wheels in EV mode.

Good point, and one which I had completely forgotten about. The extra power is a bit deceptive when you're driving though - it takes off very sharply and then runs out of puff very quickly. I avoid overtaking where possible these days but in Suffolk there's a widely-held belief that the national speed limit is 35mph, so it does happen. Attempting a pass - even at those very moderate speeds - when you've forgotten you're in EV-City mode, can provide a certain level of unexpected trouser browning.

The sharp take-off also has its downsides when pulling out into traffic. When running on electric, I find it hard to avoid wheelspin if I want a 'brisk' getaway, even with Eco mode selected (which is notably sharper in EV than it is in HV mode). The Bridgestone tyres probably have something to do with this as well, but after 20,000 miles in the car it still catches me out. I actually managed an unintentional and embarrassingly-extended smoky burnout the other week when trying to take advantage of a gap in traffic. Goodness knows what the traction control thought it was doing, and goodness knows what the poor chap who had to brake for me thought of a smokin' Prius!