Fuel additive?

[nielshm]

Hi Guys. 

Do you use any fuel additive, or just premium fuels? Toyota does have both direct and port injection, so I'm not sure if it's necassary? I'm looking at Kent Fuel Guard, only 1 ml pr. liter for daily usage, so extra cost is very limited. 

I do find VPower or other 100 octane fuels pretty expensive, since the car wont benefit from high octane, 13% higher price for extra additives is a just to much. 

[fordulike]

I only use regular fuel, but was thinking of putting some of this in:

https://www.wynns.uk.com/product/catalytic-converter-lambda-cleaner/

Be interesting to see if anyone's used this, or other fuel additives.

[Timmon]

4 hours ago, fordulike said:

I only use regular fuel, but was thinking of putting some of this in:

https://www.wynns.uk.com/product/catalytic-converter-lambda-cleaner/

Be interesting to see if anyone's used this, or other fuel additives.

If you fill up with 30 ltrs of fuel as recommended, it adds about 3.5 pence per ltr, if the price per bottle is £9.99 (Halfords). I don't know what real benefits you would get unless you only drive in traffic the whole time. Also, will the concentration vary depending on whether the tank is empty or full, etc. I would be happier if it was the sort of additive you use once per month, not every time, as seems to be the case with this additive.

[shufman]

I’ve always used V Power and as well as muting the engine note a little bit (to my ears) it burns a lot cleaner than regular or supermarket fuels - so good in the long run. 
 

When I worked at a dealer I asked the techs about this and premium fuels are better for the engines. 

[nielshm]

In Denmark we don't have ultra cheap Supermarked fuels, of course there are different brands, but 95 octane costs the same, no matter if it's Shell or other brands. 

I usually fill up with Shell standard 95 octane, how is that compared to VPower? If course it's not high performance, but in terms of cleaning and maintaining a healthy engine, are there much difference? 

And what does additives gives extra, that normal Shell 95 doesn't? 

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, nielshm said:

And what does additives gives extra, that normal Shell 95 doesn't? 

See extract from Shell UK's website: https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-v-power/shell-v-power-unleaded.html

[shufman]

I’m also convinced that you get another 1-2 to the gallon but I can’t  prove it objectively. 

[Timmon]

1 hour ago, shufman said:

I’m also convinced that you get another 1-2 to the gallon but I can’t  prove it objectively. 

I have noticed a difference too, if you use premium fuel such as BP Ultimate, which is 97 Octane. Obviously not on a single fill, but once the cheaper fuel has been fully used from the tank, I see the tank lasts longer until the next refill. It certainly does not seem to cost more to use premium fuel, overall. I'd rather use it than additives which will vary in concentrate level, depending on how much fuel you put in or have used. Plus, my local mechanic says he often has to resolve "problems" which he suspects can be traced back to poorly maintained supermarket fuel tanks. So sometimes it can be a case of "penny wise, a penny less".

[flash22]

The 1.5 likes the 97 ron you get a much cleaner burn, most fuel is a base mix what you are paying for is the additive and stabilizer  mix - most additives in a bottle are snake oil imho

[shufman]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

The 1.5 likes the 97 ron you get a much cleaner burn, most fuel is a base mix what you are paying for is the additive and stabilizer  mix - most additives in a bottle are snake oil imho

Yeah I ran a yaris hybrid and the exhaust looked brand new with v power ... I had the chrome pipe thing and it stayed clean so it must be better overall. 

[shufman]

1 hour ago, Timmon said:

I have noticed a difference too, if you use premium fuel such as BP Ultimate, which is 97 Octane. Obviously not on a single fill, but once the cheaper fuel has been fully used from the tank, I see the tank lasts longer until the next refill. It certainly does not seem to cost more to use premium fuel, overall. I'd rather use it than additives which will vary in concentrate level, depending on how much fuel you put in or have used. Plus, my local mechanic says he often has to resolve "problems" which he suspects can be traced back to poorly maintained supermarket fuel tanks. So sometimes it can be a case of "penny wise, a penny less".

I always think back to the early 90s when the fiats I had at the time wouldn’t run properly on Tesco fuel - I can’t imagine it’s loads better quality now tbh. 

[Platy2]

Another detail at least in Denmark is this: Shell Vpower 100 and a few other premium high octane gasolines are E5, whereas almost all other gasoline is E10. So the premium stuff is a bit worse for the CO2 balance but on the other hand some report that mpg is significantly lower when running on E10 compared to E5... 

[TonyHSD]

Hi guys, 

in general additives does help better burn the fuel mixture and improve efficiency plus keep engine cleaner. The higher octane fuel is not always the best option, you don’t actually know how much and what exactly is in it, best way is to use regular petrol but make a note from which petrol station you get best performance and mileage, they are all different, try to fill at that place and add some Quality additive once in a while, this would work the best for the car and your pocket. Wynns are good brand, I use theirs engine flush, petrol and injectors cleaner, catalytic converter cleaner, oil stop leak, hydraulic valve cleaner, also STP engine flush works very well too, and redex petrol system cleaner. 
 

Another thing that I noticed is that Toyota hybrids engines does not like higher octane petrol, or higher proportion of octane booster additives and even these are not healthy for your car in long term. These additives rise the temperature higher enough to cause engine knocks and those overload the “clutch”( torque limiter) in your transmission, I can even hear the springs are knocking when these happens, It is also happens when egr cooler is blocked, same knocks due to a extremely high temperature, there are many broken clutches on Prius gen 3. 
There is no need to use a higher octane petrol for hybrids, just quality regular fuel plus once in a while fuel additives combined with motorway journey will keep your car perform as new no matter how old it is. 
Regards 

[shufman]

I think Tony knows more about this than me 😊

My experience is generally positive like I say above. Before I bought the Corolla I had 3 Yaris Hybrids (changed every 6 months on a staff lease scheme) and I didn’t run one on V power for the first few thousand miles ... when I changed the fuel the ‘mooing’ engine noise decreased dramatically and it seemed generally quieter which I was happy with. 
 

My partner bought a new ‘18 Yaris hybrid and only runs it on V power and she’s had no issues.

 

So it’s upto the individual and car I think. 

[Timmon]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi guys, 

in general additives does help better burn the fuel mixture and improve efficiency plus keep engine cleaner. The higher octane fuel is not always the best option, you don’t actually know how much and what exactly is in it, best way is to use regular petrol but make a note from which petrol station you get best performance and mileage, they are all different, try to fill at that place and add some Quality additive once in a while, this would work the best for the car and your pocket. Wynns are good brand, I use theirs engine flush, petrol and injectors cleaner, catalytic converter cleaner, oil stop leak, hydraulic valve cleaner, also STP engine flush works very well too, and redex petrol system cleaner. 
 

Another thing that I noticed is that Toyota hybrids engines does not like higher octane petrol, or higher proportion of octane booster additives and even these are not healthy for your car in long term. These additives rise the temperature higher enough to cause engine knocks and those overload the “clutch”( torque limiter) in your transmission, I can even hear the springs are knocking when these happens, It is also happens when egr cooler is blocked, same knocks due to a extremely high temperature, there are many broken clutches on Prius gen 3. 
There is no need to use a higher octane petrol for hybrids, just quality regular fuel plus once in a while fuel additives combined with motorway journey will keep your car perform as new no matter how old it is. 
Regards 

Interesting observations. Not my experience at all with the 2019 Corolla. The engine is a new development, so maybe more adapt to maximise the high octane fuel? Certainly, I notice improved mpg when using it, but unclear whether the mpg improvement ofsetts the increased cost. Engine purrs, no knocking that I can detect.

In the UK E10 is yet to be introduced, I have heard that there is a debate about lower mpg vs lower harmful emissions and does the lower mpg mean that in fact the emissions are higher. I have not tried additives as local addition seems far more hit and miss than additives included by the petrol companies, just my logic.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Compared to E5, it is estimated that E10 produces 2% fewer emissions and fuel consumption increases by 0.7%. 

The UK proposals are that E10 is introduced in 2021 for unleaded petrol and super unleaded will continue to be E5 - which will mean that those vehicles unsuitable for using E10, will still have a generally available supply of fuel. 

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

yes I agree with you and I have same experience with higher octane petrol in my car 2010 model, however my observation about the engine knock is let say like a side effects, otherwise yes, slightly lower consumption and engine is becoming more responsive. There is a cheap fuel garage in north London, I did filled up twice there with normal 95 but after each time my car became super fast and engine knocks a lot, interestingly my girlfriend lives nearby and she uses that garage too, I noticed first on her car when I was driving it, we have two same cars and with any other fuel in there are no nocks in both cars. Once I did extra dose redex in mine and same results, fast but engine knocks.. . We will see what happens when the new type petrol arrives next year. 
Regards 

[nielshm]

I've done 3 tanks with Kent Fuel Guard. Things has started to improve.

If I measure my daily drive to work, every day is the same, same speed, same traffic,same accelerations... now I'm getting 57 mpg starting with a cold engine and 12°C temp.

Before that, 51-53 mpg was normal, so something is much different.

My overall full tank average is brilliant, 62 mpg is even better than claimed by Toyota. My old personal records was around 57-58 mpg.

 

[frizzbee30]

Having a relative who works in the industry  (not refining), theres a few points. 

Don't use supermarket fuels, they are generally poor quality imports and don't form the necessary droplet size for modern engines.

Apparently budget fuel has some serious issues around crap in it, and the forecourt tanks bear this out (water content etc)

Yea, V power type fuels are better as they are gas based, not refined as in the usual stuff 

I used to use additives,  but they don't mix consistently,  and yea that's logical, they are pure placebo,  and may do more harm with washing oil off the bores etc apparently 

With regard to better mileage, this could be ambient temperature increases, as well ad driving style now you have the additive in.

From what I understand there is very little,  if any research to support any additive.

Yea, racing teams use similar,  but they blend custom fuels very carefully, they don't pump it on the forecourt.....

 

[bigblock]

On my last service for my Auris Hybrid (this is before I got my Corolla) the service included a fuel cleaning additive. I asked why this is done. They said it will keep the engine running at it's best. It was an extra £10 to include in the service so I said ok. I would think it's probably worth it but then again is the dealer pulling a fast one. I will see what happens when my first service for the Corolla comes round. Anyone else been offered a fuel additive as part of a service?

[Stivino]

If one word of your post was correct, I'm sure the car manufacturers would warn us about it but, they don't.

All supermarket fuels have to conform to the industry standards

[nielshm]

My driving style is pretty much the same. I use cruise control as much as possible, and always set it at the same speed. My trip to work and back are 95% identical in terms of speed and accelerations. I always use Shell Fuel Save E10. 

[Timmon]

4 hours ago, frizzbee30 said:

Having a relative who works in the industry  (not refining), theres a few points. 

Don't use supermarket fuels, they are generally poor quality imports and don't form the necessary droplet size for modern engines.

Apparently budget fuel has some serious issues around crap in it, and the forecourt tanks bear this out (water content etc)

Yea, V power type fuels are better as they are gas based, not refined as in the usual stuff 

I used to use additives,  but they don't mix consistently,  and yea that's logical, they are pure placebo,  and may do more harm with washing oil off the bores etc apparently 

With regard to better mileage, this could be ambient temperature increases, as well ad driving style now you have the additive in.

From what I understand there is very little,  if any research to support any additive.

Yea, racing teams use similar,  but they blend custom fuels very carefully, they don't pump it on the forecourt.....

 

What you say links into my thoughts. I would have thought additives, to work correctly, would need to be measured for strength in the tank in order to work correctly. Seems a bit hit and miss just adding a bottle, when you fill up. Premium fuel with mixed additives seems the way to get a consistent strength in your tank.

I remember the trials of getting 2 stroke oil and petrol strength right, it was a faff, and you knew when you got it wrong, which was most of the time.

 

[nielshm]

I've been using fuel additives for 5 full tanks in a row. The car has always had some smoke from the exhaust when I pushed hard above 4000 rpm.

I've never used cheap fuel, but always Shell, Q8 etc., but the smoke has always been visible.

The smoke's now gone. No mater how hard I try, I can't see any smoke anymore. I believe the fuel additives has made a huge difference.