Thoughts - Avensis 1.8 vvti Automatic

[Djikson96]

Hi guys, 

I'm Petar from Serbia, i'm very interested in buying Toyota Avensis 1.8 vvti 2010. with an automatic transmission, car allegedly have only 143.000 km on the clock, 
so what do you think of that? Is that automatic transmission (multidrive s i think) good? It changes gear very smooth i tested it, but how long it lasts, what the expiriences say?
What do you think what fuel consumption can i expect? Owner says 10l city, is that realistic? Does this generation have any major flaws? In general, is it reliable? 
Thanks very much and i apologize if my english is bad.

[Robert81]

I would say the 1.8 is the most recommended petrol version of the T27. I am personally not keen on the CVT automatic and i believe they can have some issues but that would be the same case as any other CVT gearbox. Hope this helps.

[Konrad C]

The mileage converted from 143000 km, is just under 89,000 miles, which is below the average. I have not heard of any issues with Toyota's CVT! I am aware of other manufacturers like Nissan's CVT having issues. Also, I have noticed from other members comments, the CVT is well suited to the Valvematic engine, and gives good real world economy. 
So long as the car has been serviced, and all the fluids are okay, and everything documented, I see no problem. 
Engine oil (for me) has to be good quality 0W-20 fully synthetic. Oil services are very easy to do, and I do mine annually. 
The only things to be aware of, are the front doors paint cracking at the door strap area. The EPB is not as bad, and being auto means even less stress on the parking brake, plus no clutch to replace. Clutch replacement is not cheap! The brakes can have minor issues of rattle or knock, if the sliding pins are not greased. The fronts unlike other models using a similar setup, don't have anti rattle springs. So any low speed knock from the brakes is down to dry sliders. If rear pads have been changed, take the wheels off and inspect the inner pads. The reason for this is that when the pistons are wound back, the cut outs need to be horizontal,or the protrusions on the back of the pads will cause the pads to wear unevenly and fast, or the piston to be skewed to one side, causing less breaking pressure. These issues can cause the the EPB to throw up an error!

Make sure you have the map SD card if your car has Nav' because the stereo won't boot and reload if the Battery has been disconnected!

Everything else is the general condition of the car.

Hope this helps.

  

[alan333]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:52 AM, Djikson96 said:

i'm very interested in buying Toyota Avensis 1.8 vvti 2010. with an automatic transmission, car allegedly have only 143.000 km on the clock, 
so what do you think of that? Is that automatic transmission (multidrive s i think) good? It changes gear very smooth i tested it, but how long it lasts, what the expiriences say?

In the UK, the T25 model Avensis was available from 2003-2008, had a 1.8vvti engine, and was available with a traditional torque converter automatic gearbox.  I can't remember if it was called the multidrive s or not.

Then the new model T27 was released in 2009 with a 1.8 valvematic engine and a cvt automatic gearbox.

Which is yours?  The year suggests T27 but everything else suggests T25.

I've owned both (automatics).  The T25 drives well but is underpowered since the gearbox zaps a lot of its power, especially noticeable above about 50-60mph.  It isn't very economical, at around 35 miles per gallon.

The T27 has plenty power and decent fuel economy (40+mpg is quite easy to achieve) and the gearbox is seamless but revs high, especially buzzy/annoying at motorway speeds.

Both seem to be reliable gearboxes.

The T27 is a far better car to drive.

[paul9]

Multidrive S should be the CVT automatic version, rather than the torque converter automatic gearbox.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/7814545/Differences-between-Toyotas-Multidrive-S-and-Automatic-transmissions-.html

[Djikson96]

It's CVT, thanks guys so much! 

[TeamDX]

I'm glad I stumbled into this topic, because it helped me a little bit in terms of temptation to upgrade from my T25 1.8 auto.

I'm on my second avensis, had a T25 2.0 auto an now own a facelift 1.8 auto because the 2.0 had some things that i absolutely hated, and this turned out to be a decent upgrade. I've been eyeing up the T27 for a long time, because always wanted an estate and I'm sad that the T25 didn't get an estate version for the 1.8 auto config, but hey.

What really kept me from upgrading so far is basically the fact that I'm a fan of bangernomics, and not really eager on a ~5k car to throw some expensive hissy fit. I've read many woes with the electronic parking brake and its £1k actuator which wasn't the kind of fun I want to have. In this sense the CVT box was also something I wasn't overly comfy with, especially having seen that nearly no manufacturer made a CVT box that proved actually long term reliable, and the only thing going for a toyota CVT was the fake shifts with the rev drops I read about, which I actually find a neat feature to lure haters into the CVT world! :)

The primary reason I'd be looking at upgrading is that I hate the poor sound insulation of the T25 (the 1.8 is unfortunately worse than the 2.0 was) and because Toyota got quite bad feedback over this, they apparently did a better job on the NVH of the T27. However I've been a passenger in a 2014 2.0Diesel T27 and to be fair I wasn't overly impressed with the amount of road noise, which so far convinced me that I might as well stick with my current car.

 

[mrfixer]

For many years I have split my time between UK and Thailand, where most cars are automatic. Toyota are the leading brand in Thailand and for the last 20+ years most taxis drivers use the Toyota Corolla Altis (Thai market version of the Japanese Corolla Sedan).  In the 2000's they were using the 1ZZFE engine (as per Avensis T25 1.8) and the majority used the same conventional Aisin 4-speed auto gearbox U341E.  These seem to be amazingly reliable and I have seen them run to 500k km without a problem (at least that's what the drivers have told me). 

I know when the CVTs were introduced a lot of drivers were wary of them and you certainly see a lower proportion of autos on the newer cars than with the previous models. From what I have been told the CVTs are pretty reliable but IF you have a problem then things become serious very quickly. In a CVT the torque is transmitted via friction across a very small contact area. If any slippage takes place then temperatures rise very quickly, swarf is shed and the 'box is quickly destroyed. In Thailand nobody rebuilds these boxes - repair is by installing a secondhand box (from a wreck or imported from Japan).

Thai market cars also leave out the Valvematic system (use a conventional throttle body) and EPB (conventional handbrake is fitted).  If buying an older T27 I would probably be more worried about Valvematic or EPB failure. The EPB unit in particular is obscenely priced as a spare part....

[Konrad C]

1 hour ago, TeamDX said:

I'm glad I stumbled into this topic, because it helped me a little bit in terms of temptation to upgrade from my T25 1.8 auto.

I'm on my second avensis, had a T25 2.0 auto an now own a facelift 1.8 auto because the 2.0 had some things that i absolutely hated, and this turned out to be a decent upgrade. I've been eyeing up the T27 for a long time, because always wanted an estate and I'm sad that the T25 didn't get an estate version for the 1.8 auto config, but hey.

What really kept me from upgrading so far is basically the fact that I'm a fan of bangernomics, and not really eager on a ~5k car to throw some expensive hissy fit. I've read many woes with the electronic parking brake and its £1k actuator which wasn't the kind of fun I want to have. In this sense the CVT box was also something I wasn't overly comfy with, especially having seen that nearly no manufacturer made a CVT box that proved actually long term reliable, and the only thing going for a toyota CVT was the fake shifts with the rev drops I read about, which I actually find a neat feature to lure haters into the CVT world! 🙂

The primary reason I'd be looking at upgrading is that I hate the poor sound insulation of the T25 (the 1.8 is unfortunately worse than the 2.0 was) and because Toyota got quite bad feedback over this, they apparently did a better job on the NVH of the T27. However I've been a passenger in a 2014 2.0Diesel T27 and to be fair I wasn't overly impressed with the amount of road noise, which so far convinced me that I might as well stick with my current car.

 

Very interesting about the different Avensis models. I have been in every 1.8 manual variant from my '98 7A-FE GLS, friends '00 1ZZ, '04 1ZZ, all hatches, '57 plate TR estate and my '58 (2009) T27 TR Tourer 2ZR-FAE. They are all smooth, but I say my leanburn was as smooth as my Valvematic. On the motorway, that 6th gear is the difference, but not by much. I think the leanburn was smother than the Mk1 vvti, but the Mk2 vvti seemed to match the leanburn. I posted this comparison between - 

I have yet to experience any Avensis auto or diesel.  

[TeamDX]

20 hours ago, mrfixer said:

For many years I have split my time between UK and Thailand, where most cars are automatic. Toyota are the leading brand in Thailand and for the last 20+ years most taxis drivers use the Toyota Corolla Altis (Thai market version of the Japanese Corolla Sedan).  In the 2000's they were using the 1ZZFE engine (as per Avensis T25 1.8) and the majority used the same conventional Aisin 4-speed auto gearbox U341E.  These seem to be amazingly reliable and I have seen them run to 500k km without a problem (at least that's what the drivers have told me). 

I know when the CVTs were introduced a lot of drivers were wary of them and you certainly see a lower proportion of autos on the newer cars than with the previous models. From what I have been told the CVTs are pretty reliable but IF you have a problem then things become serious very quickly. In a CVT the torque is transmitted via friction across a very small contact area. If any slippage takes place then temperatures rise very quickly, swarf is shed and the 'box is quickly destroyed. In Thailand nobody rebuilds these boxes - repair is by installing a secondhand box (from a wreck or imported from Japan).

Thai market cars also leave out the Valvematic system (use a conventional throttle body) and EPB (conventional handbrake is fitted).  If buying an older T27 I would probably be more worried about Valvematic or EPB failure. The EPB unit in particular is obscenely priced as a spare part....

I absolutely love the idea of the substitution of potentially problematic components like the Valvematic and the EPB - especially the latter, because I find it a typical "upgrade" that's not actually something game changing in convenience, but definitely one that can cause a lot of head and wallet-ache. I remember how I chose a Mazda 3 for my first auto instead of the almost identical Ford Focus, because the Focus' variable valve timing was a much weaker, an often-to-fail-expensively part if the car was a bit neglected, while on the Mazda everything just seemed to be more durable, and when looking at used cars, on Fords there was always a list of things that didn't work, whilst on Mazdas, everything functioned even if the car has obviously never really been looked after. 

[TeamDX]

19 hours ago, Konrad C said:

Very interesting about the different Avensis models. I have been in every 1.8 manual variant from my '98 7A-FE GLS, friends '00 1ZZ, '04 1ZZ, all hatches, '57 plate TR estate and my '58 (2009) T27 TR Tourer 2ZR-FAE. They are all smooth, but I say my leanburn was as smooth as my Valvematic. On the motorway, that 6th gear is the difference, but not by much. I think the leanburn was smother than the Mk1 vvti, but the Mk2 vvti seemed to match the leanburn. I posted this comparison between - 

I have yet to experience any Avensis auto or diesel.  

Definitely some food for thought your comparison/findings! I was well disappointed when I saw that the T27 TR trim is now missing stuff that was in the T25 T3-X and later TR had as standard, and quite honestly I never ever want a car without power folding mirrors again (unless I decide to move to a country with wide enough roads, and car parking spaces actually fit for contemporary cars and not stuck in size in the 80s). I also never thought that I'd have a car that's quite chunky yet I'd have no dead-spot in the mirrors like the T25 is - I honestly still don't know how that's possible without a dome mirror extension like you have on vans, but I love it!

Even though I got in my first avensis after a car with a much sportier auto box (and my current car definitely showing signs of slower than standard gearbox operation) I grew to like the Aisin boxes of the avensis, because it blends well with the general calm type of driving the car wants you to do. I would also not want to go back to manual transmission other than maybe on a second car, because you just don't need to do things that a machine can do for you :) and you're not actually losing that much control or fun of spirited driving that the comfort of the auto box wouldn't compensate you a million times for!

[alan333]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:56 PM, mrfixer said:

  If buying an older T27 I would probably be more worried about Valvematic or EPB failure. The EPB unit in particular is obscenely priced as a spare part....

I haven't read of any problems with the valvematic engine, are they prone to problems I haven't came across?

[mrfixer]

15 hours ago, alan333 said:

I haven't read of any problems with the valvematic engine, are they prone to problems I haven't came across?

In a Valvematic engine the throttle butterfly is replaced by the Valvematic controller which is bolted onto the cylinder head.  The Valvematic controller is an electromechanical unit which couples to the valve gear and is able to modify the valve lift and valve timing to control the speed and power of the engine. Valvematic offers some advantage over a butterfly-valve throttle in terms of fuel economy and emissions.

The Valvematic controller itself comprises an electric servo motor, various sensors, an electronic controller and various gears and linkages to the valve train. The unit operates in a very hostile environment (heat cycles and vibration) so it is going to be much less reliable than a simple throttle butterfly.

A relative of mine used to be a service manager at a Toyota dealership and although not a particularly common fault they did replace Valvematic controllers on a regular basis. Usually on cars in the 70-100k miles range. A controller unit costs £1200+, plus labour to install. Working secondhand units are likely to be difficult to find. This is the kind of repair that could write-off a 10+ year old car.

[Morton54]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 9:04 PM, TeamDX said:

I'm glad I stumbled into this topic, because it helped me a little bit in terms of temptation to upgrade from my T25 1.8 auto.

I'm on my second avensis, had a T25 2.0 auto an now own a facelift 1.8 auto because the 2.0 had some things that i absolutely hated, and this turned out to be a decent upgrade. I've been eyeing up the T27 for a long time, because always wanted an estate and I'm sad that the T25 didn't get an estate version for the 1.8 auto config, but hey.

What really kept me from upgrading so far is basically the fact that I'm a fan of bangernomics, and not really eager on a ~5k car to throw some expensive hissy fit. I've read many woes with the electronic parking brake and its £1k actuator which wasn't the kind of fun I want to have. In this sense the CVT box was also something I wasn't overly comfy with, especially having seen that nearly no manufacturer made a CVT box that proved actually long term reliable, and the only thing going for a toyota CVT was the fake shifts with the rev drops I read about, which I actually find a neat feature to lure haters into the CVT world! :)

The primary reason I'd be looking at upgrading is that I hate the poor sound insulation of the T25 (the 1.8 is unfortunately worse than the 2.0 was) and because Toyota got quite bad feedback over this, they apparently did a better job on the NVH of the T27. However I've been a passenger in a 2014 2.0Diesel T27 and to be fair I wasn't overly impressed with the amount of road noise, which so far convinced me that I might as well stick with my current car.

 

I have owned most of these Avensis models. And in spite of the bangernomics, I would say the last Avensis model is a very good reason to upgrade. The CVT behaves much better allthough a "sporty" BMW addict will still complain about the high rewing when stepping on it. (You have to adapt to the CVT, which in the end rewards you with an economical and smooth driving style).  And finally the Avensis 2016-2020 now is a very quiet car. Wind and road noise are almost gone. Apart from the the general major upgrade in comfort and road handling this was for me the most important reason.