Yaris 2006 Air Conditioner not working 10 months after recharge

[Jaxx2]

Yaris 2006

AC was recharged 10 months ago and passed pressure check etc before re-gassing,I did only around 2,000 miles since then.it was also fully serviced 2 months ago (including AC operation check),and AC last used 2 weeks ago.

in the past 10 months (total of 2000 miles) ,AC was used in summer time and occasionally in winter to demist.

Today I noticed it's not blowing cold air at all.just hot air.

Is this common for the AC to loose charge so quickly??

 

[Stivino]

You must have developed a leak since it was last tested.

[Jaxx2]

Is a leak possible to develop so quickly,the car was parked and not even used since 2 weeks ago when AC worked.

 

[Mooly]

The leakage needed to cause a problem is very small. Typically the system may hold around 350 to 450 grams in weight of refrigerant (it will say under the bonnet on a sticker) and it only needs lose perhaps 20% of  that for efficiency to fall off and then finally for the system to fail to run at all due to lack of pressure. So even losing just half a gram a day over a year would cause failure.

Leaks typically can occur suddenly and the system go from fully functional to not operating within just a few a minutes, or there could be a gradual loss of pressure over a long period. Air con should really be left on all the time to keep seals moist and lubricated and certainly it should be run for 10 minutes every 3 or 4 weeks.

You really need an A/C engineer to check whether there is any refrigerant still in the system which would point to a slow leak, or whether it has all vanished. 

 

[stantheman1]

Its not only leaks that can cause the ac not to work.

[Jaxx2]

17 minutes ago, Mooly said:

The leakage needed to cause a problem is very small. Typically the system may hold around 350 to 450 grams in weight of refrigerant (it will say under the bonnet on a sticker) and it only needs lose perhaps 20% of  that for efficiency to fall off and then finally for the system to fail to run at all due to lack of pressure. So even losing just half a gram a day over a year would cause failure.

Leaks typically can occur suddenly and the system go from fully functional to not operating within just a few a minutes, or there could be a gradual loss of pressure over a long period. Air con should really be left on all the time to keep seals moist and lubricated and certainly it should be run for 10 minutes every 3 or 4 weeks.

You really need an A/C engineer to check whether there is any refrigerant still in the system which would point to a slow leak, or whether it has all vanished. 

 

regarding AC engineer, considering the current situation, my option are limited, but we have a Kwik Fit very close to my house that is open,(were I previously re-gassed this AC 10 months ago), so do you think if I book a new AC re-charge with them, they also check for leakage and other AC issues before recharging it? or do they just recharge the refrigant gas without checking for leakage etc? I think they advertise doing a free "vacuum" test for leakage prior to proceeding, not sure if that's what is needed in my case.

[Jaxx2]

18 minutes ago, stantheman1 said:

Its not only leaks that can cause the ac not to work.

what else could be the problem?

[stantheman1]

Lack of power to the compressor (blown fuse, poor connection,faulty relay etc)

Faulty compressor.

Faulty clutch.

Faulty pressure sensors.

Under or over pressure in the system.

Cooling fan fault.

 

 

 

 

[Stivino]

They have to vacuum test it first of all in order to determine if the system is tight.

If the test holds, there is no leak.

Does the compressor kick in when you switch the A/C on?

[Jaxx2]

9 minutes ago, Stivino said:

They have to vacuum test it first of all in order to determine if the system is tight.

If the test holds, there is no leak.

Does the compressor kick in when you switch the A/C on?

I think so yes.

I want to avoid paying another £60 for the re-charge and finding out a week later something else was the problem.

[Mooly]

41 minutes ago, Jaxx2 said:

regarding AC engineer, considering the current situation, my option are limited, but we have a Kwik Fit very close to my house that is open,(were I previously re-gassed this AC 10 months ago), so do you think if I book a new AC re-charge with them, they also check for leakage and other AC issues before recharging it? or do they just recharge the refrigant gas without checking for leakage etc? I think they advertise doing a free "vacuum" test for leakage prior to proceeding, not sure if that's what is needed in my case.

 A leakage test and vacuum test can really only detect pretty large leaks in a system... which yours may well have developed if it failed over a short space of time. They are legally obliged to do this test before refilling as it is illegal to deliberately vent these gases to the atmosphere. A very small leak will not show so easily.

Also you may well find that when it was recharged last year that they added ultraviolet dye which also assists when looking for a leak. It shows up with an ultraviolet lamp.

 

[Stivino]

2 minutes ago, Mooly said:

A leakage test and vacuum test can really only detect pretty large leaks in a system

That's nonsense.  A vacuum test should last 30 minutes and if done properly even the smallest leak will show up.

[Mooly]

Well you take as you find... and a vacuum test isn't quite the same as a normal system under constant pressure, which it is even when not running. A dry gas pressure test might be performed using nitrogen but even then very microscopic leaks are not easy to detect. 

[Stevie J]

Kwik Fit regassed my ac in early March when the car went in for MOT. After it was done the ac was really good - for about a week, and then I noticed it getting less effective, and after 3 weeks, it had stopped working altogether, so that was that, a waste of money having it re-gassed.

Later, when I had the bonnet up checking the oil and water levels, I noticed a pool of fluid under the drivers side of the bottom of the radiator and thought It might have a leak, but no, it was fluid that had been dripping from the AC coupling where the pipe meets the condenser at the bottom. So the seals have failed in that coupling and caused the gas and pressure to leak out. Kwik Fit's machine did not find that leak, and it was obvious that it was there before, as the AC had not been working when I asked them to re-gas it. They said the machine tests for leaks and if none are found, it fills the system with gas and lubricant.

In general, every car over 10 years old that I have owned that has had AC fitted, the AC did not work properly, and now I am just fed up with wasting money having old AC systems re-gassed only for it to leak out again. The car will not be getting repaired as I suspect it will cost me a fortune to get an ac specialist to repair it.

[mrpj]

There's a leak!

I would go somewhere reputable, when possible, have them check pressures etc., recharge if necessary and add UV dye. Use it for a time they recommend, if a recharge did the trick, then they can check for leaks, if any, highlighted by the dye.

[Mooly]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:11 PM, Jaxx2 said:

regarding AC engineer, considering the current situation, my option are limited, but we have a Kwik Fit very close to my house that is open,(were I previously re-gassed this AC 10 months ago), so do you think if I book a new AC re-charge with them, they also check for leakage and other AC issues before recharging it? or do they just recharge the refrigant gas without checking for leakage etc? I think they advertise doing a free "vacuum" test for leakage prior to proceeding, not sure if that's what is needed in my case.

The so called Vacuum Test is a procedure that has to be done come what may when recharging a system, not just as a basic confirmation that there isn't a significant leak somewhere but simply because the system has to be free of all moisture and air before introducing fresh refrigerant. The vacuum does that by lowering the boiling point of water. At normal air pressure that is 100C, reducing the pressure reduces the boiling point and as a near total vacuum is achieved that boiling point falls off a cliff edge going well below zero. So the system is left free of air and free of any moisture.

If the vacuuming wasn't done then pressures in the system when operating would be excessive and moisture would freeze blocking critical parts in the system.

When they connect the system to the appropriate machine they should be able to tell you how much (if any) old refrigerant has been recovered. If it is none or way down then you have a substantial leak and they shouldn't just recharge it and hope for the best, because it will happen again.