Steering on T27

[mflorant]

Hi Everyone, it's me again...2009 T27 CVT 2.0

The steering after several wheel alignments and a final very perfect wheel alignment feels like having a "swimming on the road" effect. Meaning when the road is sloping a little to the right (most of the roads do) then the car starts to tend to the right when opposite it is doing opposite tending. If there is a flange groove on the road the steering wheel is wobbling in my hands.

I have the correct manufacturer size wheels 215/55 R17.

Did you had similar issues? Can I do something to fix it or it is like that and I have to live with? I hope not. Advises needed please.

Ps. Sorry if you had already a topic about this...

[Konrad C]

A few of things I can think of and you can ignore those that are covered, or don't apply.

The first is to have the steering re-calibrated using diagnostic scanner or software. My Launch Creader8 supports this, as does Techstream and Delphi on my 'diagnostic' netbook.

There is the paperclip method, but use carefully!
 

Other factors are the condition of the tyres, including wear due to use before tracking, and the tyre pressures.

Not all wheel tracking corrects camber. This might be your issue.

[alan333]

I've had weird steering behaviour on two Toyotas, both a good few years ago:

I bought a T25 Avensis with 2 brand new cheap front tyres fitted.  The steering wheel was off centre. I adjusted the tracking, the steering wheel was now back to being centred, and the car drove fine and with no uneven tyre wear.  The car also had a drone noise at speed which I blamed on the cheap tyres so I changed them for decent tyres.  The steering wheel was now the same amount off centre the opposite way, ie if I hadn't previously adjusted it, it would now be perfectly straight.  It never solved the drone noise tho, and the car was sold fairly soon thereafter.

We also had an Auris with 4 new cheap tyres (I think it was all 4, maybe not tho).  The car 'tramlined' really badly and never felt surefooted.  It also slid across a wet roundabout with me one day at an appropriate speed where it shouldn't have (I'm an experienced driver of 30-odd years and have a 'feel' for when a car could/should lose grip).  It felt dangerous at speeds above about 60mph.  I messed about with tyres/tracking and although I could vary the symptoms I never got the car to feel right.  My OH had, by this time, lost confidence in the car and we didn't want to waste cash on new tyres, and it was sold.

Check your tyres and wheels, and try swapping the fronts to the rear and see if anything changes.  

[mflorant]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:55 AM, Konrad C said:

A few of things I can think of and you can ignore those that are covered, or don't apply.

The first is to have the steering re-calibrated using diagnostic scanner or software. My Launch Creader8 supports this, as does Techstream and Delphi on my 'diagnostic' netbook.

There is the paperclip method, but use carefully!
 

Other factors are the condition of the tyres, including wear due to use before tracking, and the tyre pressures.

Not all wheel tracking corrects camber. This might be your issue.

Dear Konrad,

I did the paperclip method and the display showed me [VSC] FF and most of the lights were blinking. I had it on for 2 minutes and than car off. Then started the engine, I think all was done. 

Unfortunately it didn't solve my issue with the car keeping to the right.

I have attached a video where you can see that the car keeps to the right and I have to steer all the time to the left to have a straight driving.

This is very annoying and I really never ever had such issues with other off topic cars of mine...

Do you have any other thoughts?

[Konrad C]

2 minutes ago, mflorant said:

Dear Konrad,

I did the paperclip method and the display showed me [VSC] FF and most of the lights were blinking. I had it on for 2 minutes and than car off. Then started the engine, I think all was done. 

Unfortunately it didn't solve my issue with the car keeping to the right.

I have attached a video where you can see that the car keeps to the right and I have to steer all the time to the left to have a straight driving.

This is very annoying and I really never ever had such issues with other off topic cars of mine...

Do you have any other thoughts?

I too have tried the paper clip method for another reason, but it didn't work either. I have diagnostic scanner and netbook with Techstream and Delphi plus the cable connections that work with them. They work better for me and all three can do steering calibration, and find any error codes. You will to go that route.

[mflorant]

I have techstream with mini VCI but a few options were missing when I tried to use it, like ABS bleeding. I am going to check it today again under windows XP with a virtual machine, hope it will work properly.

[Konrad C]

When I started using Techstream 5 years back, the version I had worked initially, but i didn't understand the functions. Then at the beginning of 2019 when I messed the EPB, I decided to give it another try. I found a place to download version 12, then loaded it to my old netbook. I already had the mini VCI cable. I already had Dephli loaded with another interface cable loaded on the same netbook. I had to play with Techstream to learn all the features and how to use it. It did what my other diagnostic tools couldn't do and cleared the fault! I found a menu that cleared any cautions and warning on the display, not just the fault code. It was in a different menu to the parking brake, if I remember correctly.
Hopefully you will learn and find a way to clear your issue. 

[sproutdreamer]

I sold my 04 T22 auto Avensis at only 75K as it seemed to wander a little at motorway speeds and I wondered whether it was developing play in the steering box. It was hardly noticable but despite being a lovely motor I sold it. I have looked at the MOT history over the last 6 years and it has always passed without even advisories so I was perhaps hasty?

My 08 T25 is an equally fine car but perhaps more affected by high winds than some smaller, older cars I have owned, or maybe I travel a bit faster now.

When I think back to how cars used to rot away, fall apart after modest mileages, flex and crack windscreens etc it is amazing how good cars are now.

[mrfixer]

I doubt that steering calibration is the problem. If the chassis is correctly set up the car should run straight.

Check the following:

1. Tyre condition, pressures and even tread depth across the tyre. Check that all the wheels spin freely with no drag from the brakes.

2. Check under the car for signs of impact damage to the suspension. This should also show up when doing the alignment.

3. Check for wear to suspension joints - don't overlook inner steering balljoints at the rack.

4. Have a full four-wheel alignment done. Once the alignment is done the computer should show a Thrust Angle of zero.

Directional stability can be improved by slightly increasing the front and rear toe-in.

When you have the alignment done they should give you a print out of the settings. Can you post it here?

My T25 was set up on a Hunter aligner and runs straight as an arrow.

[mflorant]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:06 PM, mrfixer said:

I doubt that steering calibration is the problem. If the chassis is correctly set up the car should run straight.

Check the following:

1. Tyre condition, pressures and even tread depth across the tyre. Check that all the wheels spin freely with no drag from the brakes.

2. Check under the car for signs of impact damage to the suspension. This should also show up when doing the alignment.

3. Check for wear to suspension joints - don't overlook inner steering balljoints at the rack.

4. Have a full four-wheel alignment done. Once the alignment is done the computer should show a Thrust Angle of zero.

Directional stability can be improved by slightly increasing the front and rear toe-in.

When you have the alignment done they should give you a print out of the settings. Can you post it here?

My T25 was set up on a Hunter aligner and runs straight as an arrow.

This is the only dóc that I got. It is in Hungarian...hope it gives you some clue

[mrfixer]

46 minutes ago, mflorant said:

This is the only dóc that I got. It is in Hungarian...hope it gives you some clue

That is not wheel alignment. It appears to be a test of the shock absorbers.

You need  to go somewhere they have a four-wheel alignment machine and technicians who know how to use it.

[mflorant]

4 hours ago, mrfixer said:

That is not wheel alignment. It appears to be a test of the shock absorbers.

You need  to go somewhere they have a four-wheel alignment machine and technicians who know how to use it.

They did four-wheel alignement, but this is the only document they sent me picture.

The proof: attached pictures

[mrfixer]

Ok. That's a SICAM aligner.  Its run from a PC. At the end of the alignment they should give you a print-out with 'before' and 'after' settings.

[mflorant]

On 6/16/2020 at 2:13 AM, mrfixer said:

Ok. That's a SICAM aligner.  Its run from a PC. At the end of the alignment they should give you a print-out with 'before' and 'after' settings.

Actually my garage guys took it to wheel alignement and they sent the docs and pictures to me. I will try to ask whether they have any further notes or docs.

Do you happen to have one sample how it should look like?

[mrfixer]

Something like this....

[mflorant]

3 hours ago, mrfixer said:

Something like this....

I don't have, garage doesn't have...shame