Bumper damaged

[Merlin5]

Hi guys.  My car while parked outside my house over the weekend got hit by my neighbour's car. Shunted it quite hard, because I went to my car saturday night to see that the front driverside wheel was touching the kerb, and I hadn't parked it like that. 

I opened the tailgate but then couldn't close it, the crushed bumper was stopping it.  I called out my breakdown service start rescue who managed to temporarily fix it.  However,  the key fob won't lock the the car now (only currently unlocking it) because the mechanic has told me the tailgate latch isn't going to the second position. So it's latching but I can't lock it.  And I'm having to manually lock all doors. The tailgate open warning light stays illuminated on the dash plus the triangle warning light.  The car is driving fine but I'm disconnecting the Battery each time to stop those warning lights running it down. 

It was the rescue man that looked at the car behind mine and immediately said "that's the car that hit yours". He showed me all the matching areas of damage on his car. It was my neighbours 2016 plate black Toyota Prius Hybrid. Neighbour is a minicab driver.

Fortunately the neighbour has admitted it and I've got his admission recorded on my phone.  He didn't come and tell me though, he was going to avoid me hoping I'd think it was a hit and run. 

He doesn't want to go through insurance and wants to settle privately. So I took the car yesterday to a garage my friend recommended.  Behind the bumper, the metal beam has been bent, and the horizontal metal that the bumper covers has been pushed in about an inch,  such that you can't get the spare wheel out as the centre spare wheel holding screw is now off centre. So the boot floor had obviously been pushed. 

It's all fixable though, he can get it all back into position  He quoted £797 for new bumper, metal beam, paint and materials, labour and vat. Or £630 for second hand bumper and beam. 

The neighbour said he can't afford £797. I then offered the £630 and he said he'll speak to his wife and let me know today. I said it has to be cash only, and upfront before any work commences. 

Now I'm thinking, why should I help him out and get myself second hand parts. On the other hand, it's less hassle and can get repaired quicker.

I bought the car for £1400 in april. Thing is, if I claim through his insurance they might write it off. But I want to keep the car and have it repaired. 

If they pay me out say £1200 to £1400, and then say I wanted to buy it back, would they sell it back to me for peanuts, like maybe  £200 or would I have to give them the whole amount back? If they were to buy it back for peanuts, I could repair the car and have change left over maybe.  

 

 

 

The rescue service man pulled the bumper back into shape a bit more:

[eygo]

just remember if you mention this to your insurance company

there is one question you will be asked at renewal :-

" have you made a claim at fault or not in the last 5 years "

your insurance will then be higher for the next 5 years

because you will of made a non fault claim.

so it is in your interest to settle privately

 

[Merlin5]

I'm going to double check that,  but I reported the incident to Churchill yesterday and said I'm not claiming yet, just letting them know this has happened. I asked him about non fault claims and he said it's not something they do. 

[eygo]

my work friend was in his house when he had his car

hit on the road and his insurance went up due to this claim

your ncb may stay the same but you policy price can / will be

loaded and go up

[Merlin5]

36 minutes ago, eygo said:

my work friend was in his house when he had his car

hit on the road and his insurance went up due to this claim

your ncb may stay the same but you policy price can / will be

loaded and go up

If the neighbour comes back to me and says he'll pay the cash,  I'll probably go with that as it seems the safer option at the moment. It'll be a second hand bumper and beam, but I guess that should be ok?

Seems there's pros and cons with claiming through my insurers.  I've just had another chat with Churchill. He told me that although I have a recording of him admitting liability,  insurance companies don't generally accept it as proof. And yes,  he did say that there's a possibility a non fault claim could affect my premium. He did say there's a chance that if it's classed as a write off that I might be able to buy it back for a nominal fee, say maybe £200, in which case I could get it repaired and still have spare change in my pocket. 

But it could also cost more to buy it back. Or depending on what their engineer says,  might not even allow me to buy it back. 

So yeah, an insurance claim is not sounding so great anymore. 

[MagicBoy]

2 hours ago, eygo said:

my work friend was in his house when he had his car

hit on the road and his insurance went up due to this claim

your ncb may stay the same but you policy price can / will be

loaded and go up

This.

Short version of a story from a few years ago. Transit had a mechanical failure on the M6 in the usual heavy evening traffic. The rear hub fell apart and the wheels departed the vehicle. 20 seconds later ... I encounter the hub assembly in the fast lane after the Lotus Elise in front dodged around it. I didn't have enough time and ran over it with the drivers side wheels, then fired it through the radiator of a Passat behind. Dual rear wheels apparently went in another direction and bounced off some old couples bonnet before clouting a Mail truck. Anyway, it made a mess of a number of vehicles.

My Skoda wasn't drivable, and was stretchered away for my insurance company to deal with. Claim wasn't contested by Transit man insurers, dealt with efficiently and settled in full. Renewal time comes along, I've still got full no claims ...  my premium near triples.

[Merlin5]

Well if he doesn't accept the offer to settle with cash at £630, and he hasn't so far after saying yesterday he'd speak to his wife, I'll have no choice but to claim through insurance, whatever the consequences.

[Mooly]

One possible problem of settling privately is that you have no comeback if other unseen issues are found and the cost is going to be more than first agreed. If the floorplan has been bent then that requires proper remedial work. Minor damage to a bolt on part like a bumper is one thing, all the collateral damage from something a bit more extensive is quite another.

 Remember you are the injured party here, not the guy who ran into you. You do what is right for you. I also can't see any way that that would be classed as a write off, it should be a piece of cake for a proper bodyshop to repair.

Good luck and I hope you get the outcome you want 🙂

 

 

 

[HS78]

I would be concerned about potential suspension damage too. Maybe getting your car on a ramp to have a look underneath would help to check for any other damage. The car has been hit at reasonable speed so a complete inspection would help you decide what to do with the car. Silver paintwork can be difficult to match should you decide to repair the car. 

What I dislike the most is how deceptive people try to be. A neighbour not having the decency to admit to you what happened and take responsibility. 

 

[HS78]

After looking at the pictures of the damage, I believe there is a likelihood that the car would be written off. Your Auris is a 2007 model and has a relatively low market value. An insurance assessment would likely not consider repairing this car as being 'economic'. 

Where repair costs are more than 50% of the vehicle value (all insurance companies have their own % but 50% is one of the more common ones used), the decision unfortunately, is to write the vehicle off. 

Good luck!

[Merlin5]

Thanks for the replies guys. I told him I'm going through insurance because he wanted to pay me cash on the 9th.

His insurer Freeway taxi insurance called me today with an offer to deal direct and I'm not sure if I should go with it or still go through my insurer. He offered to have it repaired or the value of a write off and would let me use my repairer, courtesy car, and valeted. It all sounds good on paper but i'm wondering if there's a catch and if I should still go through Churchill. Clearly they want to save money hence coming direct to me. But maybe the catch is that they'd offer less if it's a write off than Churchill, or maybe they would turn down my mechanic's price and recommend their own and get it done cheaper and not so  thoroughly? That said, here's what they sent me attached to the email. I wonder if any of you can check if it's to my advantage or not?

 

[ziauris]

3 hours ago, Merlin5 said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I told him I'm going through insurance because he wanted to pay me cash on the 9th.

His insurer Freeway taxi insurance called me today with an offer to deal direct and I'm not sure if I should go with it or still go through my insurer. He offered to have it repaired or the value of a write off and would let me use my repairer, courtesy car, and valeted. It all sounds good on paper but i'm wondering if there's a catch and if I should still go through Churchill. Clearly they want to save money hence coming direct to me. But maybe the catch is that they'd offer less if it's a write off than Churchill, or maybe they would turn down my mechanic's price and recommend their own and get it done cheaper and not so  thoroughly? That said, here's what they sent me attached to the email. I wonder if any of you can check if it's to my advantage or not?

 

You may as well deal with the insurance company and either get it repaired or ask them for the monetary equivalent. If you inform your / third parties insurance co then it's game over. you could have just taken the money from the guy and got the car fixed for cheap and saved yourself and him higher premiums for the next 5 years but too late for that. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Really the choice has to be yours.

If the boot floor has been buckled, an assessor may well cost in a new boot floor to the repair estimate, which will only increase the probability that the car will be written off - but it may be written of as repairable.

I've had two instances of using a third party's repairer where accident damage has clearly been the fault of the third party, and both have been OK (though there was no likelihood of my car being written off). Our insurer was informed of both instances, and no claim was made on our insurance.

The first a few years ago was with Direct Line where the third party ran into the rear of my car. Hire car provided and repairs carried out by Direct Line's approved repairer. No issues and no increase in our insurance premium.

The second in 2018 was where a police car, whilst turning round on a car park, and scraped the front of our Aygo. Just scuffs and scratches to the front bumper. Police vehicles don't carry insurance, so their claims management company handled the repair. Hire car provided. Repairs carried out by their Approved Repairer (standard insurance approved bodyshop). Again, no issues and no increase in our insurance premium.

As regards the possibility of higher premiums, if your insurer hasn't had to spend money on progressing a claim, repairing your car and claiming the cost of repairs from the third party's insurer, your premiums may not increase. They may not increase anyway, as the fault was the third party's.

Just because an accident has been notified or been claimed for, doesn't automatically mean your premium will increase. Another example was when my wife's Mazda was hit by an uninsured car involved in a police chase. Repairs cost just under £2,000 (2008 prices). Our insurer repaired the car and used a Mazda bodyshop. No increase in premium in subsequent years, though our insurer may have claimed the reoair costs back from the Motor Ibsurance Bureau uninsured loss scheme.

As regards whether you should have accepted cash from the third party for the repair, why should you? They are insured and the insurance is there to cover him in case he damages someone else's property - that's what insurance is for. If he has an increase in insurance premium, that's his issue.

 

[Merlin5]

Cheers guys.  Thanks Frosty, everything you said sounds positive. I gave permission to the neighbours insurers to sort out my car.  He just wants me to send him photos and  forward my mechanics repair breakdown sheet and price to give to his people to authorise and then hopefully my mechanic will get the go ahead to start the work next week.  With any luck next Monday which is the earliest he told me he'd be able start the job,  and he'll want it for 4 days.  So my premiums shouldn't be affected since I'm not going through my insurers. Unless the incident info I gave them affects it, but according to your experiences, that shouldn't happen. 

The mechanic said it needs knocking back into shape, he didn't suggest a new boot floor. I was wondering if the suspension could be affected  but he didn't mention that so obviously he's happy that all damage is confined to the areas put in his breakdown.

I believe I'll be getting a courtesy car. Not too bothered though as I'm not driving much at the moment and it's easy enough to walk to the high street for food. Good exercise too!

While I was at the mechanic getting the rear damage assessed, I asked him to quote me for three separate bodywork damage areas that I inherited with the car when I bought it in April.  I thought he was going to say over a £1000, but he said £300.

So assuming he gets to do the repairs and the insurer doesn't write off the car,  then while he's got the paint  I might as well get those done and the car will look showroom perfect.

[ziauris]

3 hours ago, Merlin5 said:  So my premiums shouldn't be affected since I'm not going through my insurers. Unless the incident info I gave them affects it, but according to your experiences, that shouldn't happen. 

Your premium WILL be affected and WILL mostly likely go up as you now have an incident logged even though you weren't at fault. Car insurance is a complete scam and you will be penalised for the next 5 years. Atleast you'll know better for next time.

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, ziauris said:

Your premium WILL be affected and WILL mostly likely go up as you now have an incident logged even though you weren't at fault. Car insurance is a complete scam and you will be penalised for the next 5 years. Atleast you'll know better for next time.

As I've both stated above and experienced, the premium may not necessarily increase as a result of this incident. On the occasions I outlined above, our premium didn't increase. Obviously it is down to the respective insurer to decide.

[Merlin5]

1 hour ago, ziauris said:

Your premium WILL be affected and WILL mostly likely go up as you now have an incident logged even though you weren't at fault. Car insurance is a complete scam and you will be penalised for the next 5 years. Atleast you'll know better for next time.

 I'm not going to say you're wrong, it could happen. But Churchill pretty much assured me that my premiums shouldn't be affected,  and that's if I'd even  claimed through them. But thanks for being alarmist.

[ziauris]

1 hour ago, Merlin5 said:

  But Churchill pretty much assured me that my premiums shouldn't be affected ......But thanks for being alarmist.

All insurance companies say that !!!! You'll find out when you next re-new. Try running some quotes with and without the accident and see what you get!

Not being alarmist, you asked for advice, I gave it. In my experience it always has gone up after a bump whether I've been at fault or not. That's why I said "WILL mostly likely go up ", but also see MagicBoy's reply. If you don't like the reply, so be it.

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, ziauris said:

Your premium WILL be affected and WILL mostly likely go up

But from my experiences detailed previously, the premiums weren't affected, and they didn't go up - and that was on three incidents.

As I said it depends on the insurer.

[Merlin5]

2 hours ago, ziauris said:

All insurance companies say that !!!! You'll find out when you next re-new. Try running some quotes with and without the accident and see what you get!

Not being alarmist, you asked for advice, I gave it. In my experience it always has gone up after a bump whether I've been at fault or not. That's why I said "WILL mostly likely go up ", but also see MagicBoy's reply. If you don't like the reply, so be it.

 

Well ok but it looks like MagicBoy claimed through his own insurance company which i suppose increases the chances of the premiums going up. But in my case I'm dealing directly with the 3rd party's insurer and not involving mine. Yes I informed my insurers because apparently you're supposed to do that whether you settle privately or not. Interestingly though, they told me I didn't need to tell them, and they've just got it as info with no claim action. Anyway, if it goes up a bit there's nothing I can do. Hopefully it won't!

[Merlin5]

His insurers emailed me today to say they've authorised my repairer to go ahead with the work, so that's good!  Should be next week for about 4 days. Insurers are going to supply me with a courtesy car. While it's being repaired, I'm taking advantage of him having the paint and will get three other bodywork repairs done that I inherited with the car, so I'll be paying about £300.

[Merlin5]

I got my Churchill insurance renewal which renews in a couple of days. April was when I changed over my Churchill insurance from my Peugeot to the Auris and they had increased it to £622 based on what I would have paid last September with the amended details.  With the Peugeot I was only paying £500.

Anyway, this years renewal was £698 which is another £76 higher. So I was thinking that maybe they had increased it due to the non fault accident I'd reported just like ziauris had mentioned would likely happen.

I just called Churchill saying I wasn't happy with this increase and asked if it was due to the non fault claim. In July they had told me on the phone that I didn't even need to report it to them unless I wanted to claim. The man told me no it's not to do with that, it was just that their rate had increased for everyone.  But he said he'll see if he can bring the price down.

And he did, to £550! And then by telling him I don't think I'll be doing more than 5000 miles a year (previously insured for up to 8000 miles a year) he was able to reduce it further to £515!  

Also, when my car was a repaired a few weeks ago, they had it in their garage about 5 days. They did a fantastic job and I got given an almost brand new Seat Leon courtesy car brought to my house which was really nice to drive. I was like "where's the  handbrake??". But it was one of those flat square electronic levers. I loved that.

They put on a new bumper, new metal beam behind it, and knocked the boot floor back into place perfectly.  Seamless paintjob. It looks spot on, you'd never know anything happened.

While it was in for repair I decided to get some non accident related things done. There was heavy grazing on the front bumper nearest the front driverside wheel and some bonnet misalignment from some presumably previous accident (just about visible in my old sig photo), someone had keyed along the left side of the car, and there was a small rusty area that had been badly patched on the left side near the rear wheel above where you'd jack the car up to change a tyre. I had inherited those things when I bought the car. He repaired all of that for £400 and now the car looks brand new. Very good paintwork, you can't see the join. 

Couldn't be happier. 🙂

[FROSTYBALLS]

Briiliant - well done.

[Merlin5]

Thanks Frosty. All's well that ends well, as they say.

[Mooly]

Thanks for the update, I'm really pleased it all worked out well in the end 🙂