lower bushings almost instantly wearing out

[brainii]

This not about a toyota car (but it should apply to many cars in general) and also since so many guys are car knowledgeable here goes:

I got 2009 Mitsubishi Colt, I noticed some metal clunking noises when over bumps or when turning fast etc.

I check springs, look ok. I check bushing, totally gone on the driver's side. See pic 1.

I go to the mechanic, he replaces it (with a used one from another exact same car), clunking sound goes away. The very next day I hear the metal sound again. I check again, BUSHING gone again.

I go in again a 3rd time, he replaces it again for free with another used one. I drive 5km, go home, check again and I see this:

bushing looks cracked and half gone just by driving 5km in a straight road. What in the world is going on here? Mechanic suggested if this bushing is gone too, it could be the shock and is somehow stuck/defective/not always working (we did a bounce test, it looks ok and it's not leaking oil) and that I should check the suspension at an MOT station (he also suggested ordering tougher bushing made by some teflon material if i remember correctly).

However, the bushing on the passenger side is still perfectly fine, I'm also suspecting the suspension or some other issue like a bend frame or something? (but car was never in an accident, drives straight, tyres are wearing normally, frame looks straight etc)

I'm buffled, please help!!!

thanks

[mrpj]

15 hours ago, brainii said:

with a used one

 

15 hours ago, brainii said:

with another used one

Why not fit a new item to see what happens? I know that is more expensive and if it too self destructs there could well be something amiss.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Moved to General Discussions.

[brainii]

guys cmon, it's essentially just a rubber bushing, I know used ones would be less strong than a brand new one but I checked both used ones (my mechanic of 15 years did as well and I trust him and anyways, he wouldn't fit them only to replace them after 1 day or so, he also charged me only 10 euro total for both, both times, he replaced also the metal screw and it's nuts that goes between the bushing), they were both solid when fitted, no cracks or anything.

I'm not fitting a new one (at whatever ridiculous price Mitsubishi is charging for a piece of rubber) as whatever is destroying them in just a few km, will surely destroy the original one as well (the first one was original). Don't forget, the one on the other side is still the original one, the car also has only 30000 km on it. It's obvious (at least in my logic) that something else is wrong on the driver side.

 

I'm gonna go test the suspension at an MOT station as soon as I return from holidays then take it from there.

[TonyHSD]

This things happens when something is bent or poor fitting, you may need to start all over again and carefully check everything before driving off, if something puts so much pressure to cut the rubber will cut the metal too if you keep driving it like that..  this Mitsubishi Colt is one of the simplest and most reliable cars in the world, I had many of those and they were all great. 

[brainii]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

This things happens when something is bent or poor fitting, you may need to start all over again and carefully check everything before driving off, if something puts so much pressure to cut the rubber will cut the metal too if you keep driving it like that..  this Mitsubishi Colt is one of the simplest and most reliable cars in the world, I had many of those and they were all great. 

I'm thinking that too, though visually there is nothing there.

1) One think I remembered, was about a month ago I went for an oil change to a different mechanic, he lifted the car up using a floor jack, then he used a jack stand for safety, but when he finished and lowered the car he forgot about the jack stand and the car "fell" on the jack stand with a loud metal noise. he then lifted it back up, removed the stand and I drove off, I asked and he didn't say anything was broken (he wouldn't ofc! Obviously, I will never be going back to him in the future..) but I didn't notice any clunking noises until recently.I also mentioned this to my usual mechanic, he said it's highly improbable that this would generate so much force as to bend something and that if something was indeed bend would be due to falling in a pothole at speed.

2) Is it possible the bushing fails due to a wrong installation (they lift the car, unscrew bolt, place new rubber between frame and arm, reinstall and tighten bolt, lower car. Is this the normal procedure?

[flash22]

If the bushes are done up tight then the car lowered they will bind up, if there bonded in it will just rip them out, buy a complete arm or the bushes new

[TonyHSD]

Proper procedure is to work on the car on lift with wheels standing on not in the air ! Using a new quality bush and links and torque to manufacturer settings, if you change stabiliser bar rubber bush or links, suspension arms with bushes it is very important to set correct load before tightening up the nuts or you get all f...k after short time especially if you driving over speed bumps at higher speeds . Almost certainly here we have wrong installation and over torqued nuts.  👍

[Gerg]

Were your photographs taken with the car sitting normally on all four wheels, or with part of it jacked up to help you get a good picture?

With the car sitting on its wheels on a flat surface, with the steering pointing straight ahead, then I would not expect any loading on this anti-roll bar - the attachments on the left and right suspension arms should be in symmetrical positions.  But your anti-roll bar is pulling away (up, basically) from the arm it was previously connected too.  If your car is parked on the flat then it gives the impression that there is an anti roll bar loading when there should be none. 

When this bush is damaged like this, the one on the opposite side has almost no job to do as it has nothing to work 'against' anymore, just the friction between the roll bar and the attachment bushes where it connects to the bodyshell.  The car will lean more into corners, both left and right hand, and the suspension may feel slightly softer when traversing bumps that affect one of the front wheels only.

[brainii]

On 8/1/2020 at 8:12 PM, Gerg said:

Were your photographs taken with the car sitting normally on all four wheels, or with part of it jacked up to help you get a good picture?

With the car sitting on its wheels on a flat surface, with the steering pointing straight ahead, then I would not expect any loading on this anti-roll bar - the attachments on the left and right suspension arms should be in symmetrical positions.  But your anti-roll bar is pulling away (up, basically) from the arm it was previously connected too.  If your car is parked on the flat then it gives the impression that there is an anti roll bar loading when there should be none. 

When this bush is damaged like this, the one on the opposite side has almost no job to do as it has nothing to work 'against' anymore, just the friction between the roll bar and the attachment bushes where it connects to the bodyshell.  The car will lean more into corners, both left and right hand, and the suspension may feel slightly softer when traversing bumps that affect one of the front wheels only.

i took all pics with the car sitting on a mostly flat surface (my driveway, tiny slope towards the rear wheels), straight steering.

ok, so:

1) wrong installation?

2) bend lower arm or anti roll bar?

3) someone suggested enlarged hole on the lower arm and to weld metal o ring on top of hole?

4) bad shock or spring?

[brainii]

 

On 8/1/2020 at 6:51 PM, TonyHSD said:

Proper procedure is to work on the car on lift with wheels standing on not in the air ! Using a new quality bush and links and torque to manufacturer settings, if you change stabiliser bar rubber bush or links, suspension arms with bushes it is very important to set correct load before tightening up the nuts or you get all f...k after short time especially if you driving over speed bumps at higher speeds . Almost certainly here we have wrong installation and over torqued nuts.  👍

my mechanic doesnt have that type of lift, only the one with the 4" arms". also, used drill to tighten the bolt until snug both times

[Gerg]

The bolt that is securing the bushing is the wrong one.  It is not supposed to be threaded as far down as the one that is shown in your picture.

I'm not a mechanic, but that threaded portion of your bolt is pointlessly long for this application.  In your picture, now that the rubber bush has almost been destroyed, the anti roll bar looks to be sitting in the 'wrong' place, but that space should be filled by the rubber bush that is no longer there.  This is not remotely obvious if you haven't seen the car.

I think that in this application, the anti roll bar fitment's securing bolt/nut is not designed to be tightened until the rubber is so compressed that the bolt/nut goes snug when using a power tool, it is supposed to be tightened to the end of the bolt's threaded portion, at which point it can go no further.  With the wrong dimension of bolt thread, this pre-loading of the bush will be wrong.  Or, it could be that your mechanic has left off a metal bush that sits over the shank of the bolt, that would exist to change the bolt's effective thread length.  Having a rubber bush flexing up and down on a threaded bolt shank seems like a poor (so not Mitsubishi's) design. 

Alternatively, if this suggestion is wrong, then a torque wrench should be used to the factory spec.

But, I could be misinterpreting the photograph. 

Happy to be corrected.

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, brainii said:

 

my mechanic doesnt have that type of lift, only the one with the 4" arms". also, used drill to tighten the bolt until snug both times

Hi, that is the problem., your mechanic should never use a gun to tighten bolt and nuts, he simply over tighten them., plus when wheels are in the air he set wrong preloads then after let the car on the ground everything is so tight and rubber is not flexible anymore and under extreme pressure of the suspension arm movement up and down resulting ripped bush, next is snapped links. Buy new quality links with bushings and install correctly, you will never have any problems. 4056A052  Tha is your part number , and here you can look how fits to the car https://japancars.ru/index.php?route=catalog/mitsubishi&grp_id=33&area=M60&cat=C601H401D&mdl=Z34A&clf=XNLHR6&cfg_id=1&blk_id=110

[brainii]

gonna take it to the dealership i think next week to sort it out properly

[flash22]

That drop link is destroyed and the other one is on its way out, I would say there is something wrong with the suspension or bottom arm

just looked up the bushings 6 euro each inc a new bolt

[Parts-King]

Most of that type of drop link includes a long bolt, rubber bushes, washers and a sleeve, it just does not look right, the bolt is threaded all the way, they are not normally like that 

[brainii]

look this video guys. exactly what my mechanic did, but without removing tyre from car. look the part too, looks exactly the same

 

 

[brainii]

so I have an update.

took the car for MOT suspension testing.

1) suspension is fine.

2) also checked lower arm and anti roll bar and look fine.

3) checked hole, it's not enlarged.

 

I ended up ordering a new bush/link screw at a cost of 16 euro+vat, I hope it lasts. if that too fails, to the dealership it is (went there originally, it's closed for summer holidays for the next 2 weeks).

[TonyHSD]

When you change again do not overload and over tighten the nuts, if wheels of the ground you need just to put the nuts and screw then on half of what you had previously, never use that drills or impact guns. 👍 

[brainii]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

When you change again do not overload and over tighten the nuts, if wheels of the ground you need just to put the nuts and screw then on half of what you had previously, never use that drills or impact guns. 👍 

I changed (again) today. This time used brand new one part (not Mitsubishi, some other brand). told mechanic (not my usual one) to keep wheels on ground, said not needed and that's how they always do it and never had problems, but he manually tightened the screw without power tools. we'll see if it lasts. Said if it fails again he gonna convert to metal bush, but if it does fail, I'm taking straight to dealership cause obviously something else would be at fault and local mechanics just can't pinpoint it.

[TonyHSD]

After installing them just turn the steering and look at them, if bushes are squished a lot that’s mean nuts are over tighten and will get bushes damaged again, if there is plenty of rubber to allow for flexing when driving there is nothing to worry about. Good idea is when changing links to change the bar bushes too to stop any excess movement and make the car feels like new again, better in turns and roundabouts. 👍

[brainii]

so i have an update, drove a few miles over a few a days, bush seems to be holding out this time. Maybe the used ones were really dodgy. So nothing's wrong with the car, Hooray!

thanks for all the suggestions