Paddle gear changes why ?

[Louie]

Can some one explain to me the logic of paddle gear changes in a Corolla Hybrid GR sports which has a CVT box or any car for that matter with such a configuration . Surely a human action is inferior to that of machine logic ? or am i missing something. The idea here is that i can stop staring like a demented fool at those ear flaps situated behind the steering wheel. Now my previous car a Golf GTD Mark7.5 had a real gearbox (DSG) so paddles made some sense. 

[Platy2]

Louie, I agree, they are lame but for one situation. When driving down steep mountain roads it may be necesarry to force the car down in speed without using the brakes too much. When in D it may achieve too high speed, is my (limited) experience .

[Chattacks]

The logic I believe is for people who either want to feel like they are driving something "sporty" and for those not used to the CVT being just one gear and not having what normal upshifts are in other auto cars. 

[AndrueC]

13 hours ago, Louie said:

Can some one explain to me the logic of paddle gear changes in a Corolla Hybrid GR sports which has a CVT box or any car for that matter with such a configuration . Surely a human action is inferior to that of machine logic ? or am i missing something. The idea here is that i can stop staring like a demented fool at those ear flaps situated behind the steering wheel. Now my previous car a Golf GTD Mark7.5 had a real gearbox (DSG) so paddles made some sense. 

I can't speak for the Corolla but all my Jazz had them. I only ever found two uses for them - one of which was dubious :)

* Option 1: When overtaking hit the down paddle twice to get the car close to the red line. Then, as you mash the accelerator, switch the box back into CVT mode. The result was that you accelerated at peak torque for as long as you kept the accelerator down or the car ran out of steam. For a 1.3 litre engine it was surprising just how much punch you got. Basically it's a manual kick-down.

* Option 2: When descending a hill switching to 7-speed mode gave you better engine braking.

But in normal driving it was pointless. The first Jazz could be switched into 7-speed mode and would happily change gear for you or you could use the paddles. Neither was much cop. In manual mode the paddles were hardly ever where your fingers were because the wheel was often turned to negotiate a junction. Left to its own devices it behaved like an old automatic box - gear hunting going up hills and changing gear half way round roundabouts. It was interesting to note that on the second Jazz Honda removed the 'switch to manual' button and only went into manual mode if you used the paddles. It would also drop out of manual mode when you stopped. The third Jazz I had (my previous car) they'd gone even further and the box left manual mode as soon as the car reached 'steady state' so manual mode was clearly being seen as a temporary thing.

I think paddles on a CVT box or indeed any kind of auto that isn't actually a sports car are pointless.

[AndrueC]

8 minutes ago, Chattacks said:

The logic I believe is for people who either want to feel like they are driving something "sporty" and for those not used to the CVT being just one gear and not having what normal upshifts are in other auto cars. 

It's a great shame that so many people associate upshifts with sport. People whining about 'the elastic band effect' just don't understand what gear boxes do and why they are needed. If they did understand they'd realise that upshifts are an undesirable side effect of having discrete gear ratios. A CVT box in theory is the perfect gear box. It ensures that the engine is always operating at exactly the right RPMs for the work being asked of it.

Whooooup, whoooup, whoooup! Might sound sound sporty but whhhhhhhooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuup is far better.

[PeteB]

In fact, on the Toyota Hybrids, the paddle shifts make very little difference to anything except when decelerating.  You may find when using the shift while cruising or accelerating the revs rise briefly, but that's just the Hybrid system forcing the engine to rev more and the man Motor/Generator less.  Accelerating hard will see the system do its own thing regardless.

However, when decelerating, it causes the punping action of the engine to be increased more with lower 'gear' numbers to aid control or deceleration.  It's like a variable B mode on Hybrids that on have a 'B' position on the shifter for extra control when braking.  Beware that both B (brake) mode and S (Shift) mode (incorrectly called Sport mode by some reviewers) assist with engine braking but at the expense of regeneration.  Because the pumping action of the engine is responsible for some of the braking, there is less energy left to push against the Motor/Generator and therefore charge the HV Battery.  Some time ago a few engineering types on another group wired up an ammeter into the system and proved this.

B & S modes make most sense on the very rare occasions (for most owners) that the HV Battery becomes completely "Maxed Out" full, usually when descending very long (>3 mile), steep hills with the brakes pedal pressed.  When the 8th bar first lights up on the HV Battery gauge, it is usually some time before the battery is truly maxed out.  In 330,000 Hybrid miles over 18 years I've only experience true max out about a couple of dozen times, on a couple of tours of Scotland, and trips to Devon and the Isle of Man.

I've also occasionally found B mode useful in icy/snowy conditions to help give extra control with less use of the brake pedal.  I've not yet driven in such conditions on a model with S mode, but expect the same would apply.

[Timmon]

Apart from occasionally flipping the paddles to see what happens, i have never used them, not even to overtake. I keep meaning to find a quiet stretch of road and experiment! Occasionally I have pressed them and nothing happens, so the management system does control when you are "allowed" to use them, which means you don't really get a "gearbox" experience.

I always said I would never have an automatic gear box, and in truth, I still haven't , but I am growing to like the CVT very much. Some reviewers complain that it is like driving a car where the clutch is failing, but I still find it amazing that you get up to speed very quickly, with no real  sense of acceleration. Incredibly smooth.

[Louie]

Hi Guys

Yes i agree with all your comments.

The brilliant thing about the CVT box is the seamless smooth acceleration without the clunk or slight change in motion as the car accelerates which you get in standard gearboxes. This is something i like enormously and am still getting used to. My old DSG boxed Golf 7.5 GTD had a smooth gear change when on full auto but you could still feel and hear the changes and it would occasionally get confused when driving at low speed when you demanded a sudden quick move on which was characterised by a pregnant pause a clunking noise and jerking motion shortly before the acceleration. My older MK7 did exactly the same thing. The DSG box which i have lived with for years was never perfect and had strange flaws but the Corolla CVT box is pretty  flawless and accepts my demands without a whimper. I am now getting used to the process of accelerate and cruise without any hassles now that the engine has freed up a bit though its still on about 1800 miles only. The 0-60 times are looking good with pretty quiet no fuss acceleration. I have now become a bit snobby and frown at noisy accelerating cars or any noisy vehicles for that matter.