2013 Auris Excel Touring Sports Hybrid - Suspension Knock (noise, rattle)

[Fostel]

Dear friends,

Please help me diagnose the issue with 2013, 85k Auris.
I did not expect to have any problems with the suspension at this mileage.

In the video. The noise starts at 10 sec. The car was slowly rolling down on the road with a rough surface.

https://open.lbry.com/@CDIY:f/Toyota-Auris-Suspension-Knock:5

I do not feel any traction problems while on speed and in corners but I hear this noise (knocking and vibrations) when even minor imperfections are on the road. Some speed bumps could trigger a single knock some could not.

Would you please, point me in the right direction? What to look at? 

This is the LEFT SIDE

      

and the RIGHT side:

       

The grease was not there when I took the wheel off. I just slid off the bush with my finger and the grease got out. Second picture when I cleaned the grease.
 

I couldn't say what is the issue 100%
The whole thing looks like crap to me. Kinda shocked. It's 7 years old car (85k miles) but half of the mileage is from city driving on badly maintained roads with a lot of speed bumps. I heard people do 200-300k miles on those hybrids. Is this wear normal at this mileage?

Thanks.

 

[Catlover]

When you say you heard people doing 200-300 k miles in a hybrid, they likely to be talking about the reliability of the hybrid system itself.  Wear and tear on items common across all cars are the same with a hybrid ie tyre wear, brakes, suspension, steering etc. You don’t expect tyres to last 200-300k miles just because it’s a hybrid do you. Same logic with other parts.

[Sungodraz]

Also those struts. Dont look Oem. They look like aftermarket Kyb?
Mine is a 2016 model. so maybe they had slightly different design as Oem. Where did you buy your car? I would guess the mileage of the car was tampered with, but I know nothing and in the Uk you might have better check system available to make sure the mileage is real. Here in Lithuania... We really don't as most cars come from aboard.

[Parts-King]

Does not look bad to me, apart from the leaking ball joint, what did you expect from an 85K mile car? not excessivly rusty/coroded, ball joints and drop links wear, they are not expensive to replace 

[Fostel]

 

47 minutes ago, Sungodraz said:

Also those struts. Dont look Oem. They look like aftermarket Kyb?
Mine is a 2016 model. so maybe they had slightly different design as Oem. Where did you buy your car? I would guess the mileage of the car was tampered with, but I know nothing and in the Uk you might have better check system available to make sure the mileage is real. Here in Lithuania... We really don't as most cars come from aboard.

That's interesting info. Especially, that a while ago some guy at the spray shop told me that both of my bumpers were re-sprayed and indeed they are a different shade and recently the clear coat started to peel off in some places. Also, after a purchase, I noticed that radiator has a dent in it (no leaks) but Toyota 'forgot' to mention this to me before purchase.

I guess that the car was sandwiched at some point with a previous owner. . Did Toyota know? I think so... This may explain that stabiliser links were replaced during the first 3 years.

ToyoDIY shows two different references for shocks.

48510-8Z063, 48520-09X90 and

48510-02A00, 48520-02A00 which seem to be current.

A vehicle purchased from a Toyota stealership in Chelmsford

I acquired it in 2016 with a 40k on the clock so mileage seems legit.

 

[Parts-King]

If you subscribe to the My T app you will be able to view any service history, it might show a body repair if done inside the Toyota network, if not, it's possible they never even knew, there is no requirement to tell you if it has had bodywork unless it was written off. The previous owner may have had the work done somewhere himself 

[TonyHSD]

All looks perfect to me, don’t squeeze the rubber boots, now you have the grease out, but it’s fine. You need to check all components from the pictures with car of the ground on ramps and wheels to be on the ramp not in the air, then wheels in the air to check for shocks play, shocks mounts and wheel bearings. If all it’s rock solid which I believe it is there is nothing to worry. Remember those Auris are not the best model of Toyota and they are not best in class for comfort, smooth and quiet ride, hybrid variants are best of all available, if you try a standard diesel or petrol you will be more disappointed. Make sure the noise and knocks not coming from steering wheel column, another weak point of Toyota cars. 
Regards 

[Fostel]

5 hours ago, Sungodraz said:

[...]
Mine is a 2016 model. so maybe they had slightly different design as Oem.[...]

They had:

2012/11 - 2015/05

2015/05-

[Sungodraz]

9 hours ago, Fostel said:

They had:

2012/11 - 2015/05

2015/05-

True, that part where the boot attaches to the bottom seems different. I still cant believe a oem strut has a sticker on it though, but I could be wrong, maybe e someone knows better, or has your year Auris

[Gerg]

The suspension struts definitely come with some labels still on them from the Derby factory!

 

[Gerg]

When my strut tops were replaced under warranty to cure some suspension noises (which they didn't fix), the Toyota dealer had to fit new anti-roll bar drop links as they destroyed the old ones when trying to remove them (gas torch used).  As Kingo (Parts-King) says above, the MyToyota app should tell you if Toyota have investigated suspension noises under warranty.

If it has been apart, then more reason to check the strut top nuts for tightness, (iQs can suffer from this problem even when they haven't been apart, I see).  It's a shame that the access is hindered by the windscreen wiper plenum plastic trim (which is quite fragile btw).

If the noise was anti-roll bar related, then I would expect it to be worse when just one road wheel passes over, say, a speed hump.  If both wheels go over a bump at exactly the same time, then the anti roll bar isn't really loaded, so the noise should be quieter, or at least different.

Whilst I've not tried this, er, oddball, suggestion, if you had an old, worthless, smartphone knocking about, you could start an audio record app, and securely attach it to near the l/h or r/h strut top, before you go for a test drive, to see which side of the car the noise is loudest (if there is any noise from either strut top at all!).  I'm thinking of a large lump of Blu-Tack and cable ties here.  Or use an old, wired phone hands-free earpiece/microphone to do the same, but with the phone in the car, and the wire going out the door (seal) to the engine bay.

[Cue: avalanche of abuse for such a weird idea!😊] 

[Sungodraz]

3 hours ago, Gerg said:

The suspension struts definitely come with some labels still on them from the Derby factory!

 

Heh, mine definitely didnt have the purple one. Could be someone scrapped it off. Is yout boot attached at the bottom? Or just top? 

The photod show a difference. Guess toyota decided to slightly alter the design for the facelift, and when I bought new ones, basically  bought the old design, which only differs in clamping the boot at the bottom:D

[Fostel]

Newest discovery!

I found this thread on PC where user oil_burner mentioned engine mount as a culprit

https://priuschat.com/threads/shock-strut-replacement-tips.206141

Mine looks bad. Thanks for support lads.

  

[Saxmaniac]

Rattles can be hard to find, but on addition to waggling all the joints while unloaded, don't forget silly causes. I had an elusive knock on a Vauxhall which was caused by a bumper retainer screw a bit loose, so don't just waggle suspension bits 

[Fostel]

Latest videos. Let me know what do you guys think.
I started collecting parts but still ain't 100% sure what is the issue.

2013 Toyota Auris Suspension Noise (Gravel Road) 1

2013 Toyota Auris Suspension Noise (Gravel Road) 2

[TonyHSD]

Can’t load the videos for some reason, what I would say for the engine mount it looks ok, it’s not broken, disconnected or completely damaged, it’s got some wear on it for sure, my one looks pretty much same or worse, I suspected some engine mounts cause me vibrations but on close inspection and compared to the exact same car both engines moves very similar when playing with the cars, nothing too excessive or knocks. You can try to replicate the knock you are after while shift between D and R , if you find knocks then you have a bad engine mount, also you will need to check all mounts too, the gearbox one it’s almost impossible without strobe camera, you will need to be car surgeon 😂 Now for the test:  You will need an assistant, secure the car with wheel locks and hand brake ON, open the bonnet, start the car and ask the assistant to select D and try to move the car slightly forward you are watching under the bonnet what is going on, engine will move that’s normal but no metal knocks should be present, now select R and do the same, you can use torch to watch closely the movement of the engine, make sure you do all that with sense, there is always a risk been run over or bonnet got closed over your head, remember safety first. You can have a look at those videos too. https://www.youtube.com/user/toninocars
Regards 

[Gerg]

After a couple of attempts I can get your videos to load.  Perhaps me and Tony overwhelmed the server!

I still think that a loose strut top nut would make a sound like this, but I am no expert!

If you jacked up the car when the rubber strut top protective cover has been removed (It lifts off), you might be able to see or feel some movement with your finger touching the strut top from above (or via a screwdriver to protect your fingers - trying to detect a click) when the car is lowered back down on to its wheels.  Finger trap alert when the cars come down!

I haven't checked the access to the rubber strut top bearing cover with the windscreen wiper plastics in place  - it's raining here!

[Fostel]

And this video below presents a noise when rocking the steering wheel from side to side fast.

2013 Toyota Auris Steering Noise

[Fostel]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Can’t load the videos for some reason [...]

Try again, please. The odysee page had some downtime. It should be working now. Thanks!

[TonyHSD]

21 hours ago, Fostel said:

Try again, please. The odysee page had some downtime. It should be working now. Thanks!

Lol, with that knocks should be easy to find, perhaps sometimes it’s not. It sounds to me like something is loose shocks, top mounts, shock bearings or steering rack inner joints or the rack itself, can be anything, Toyota garage should be able find out. You will need a ramp like one for the mot that can wiggle the suspension and shock tester ramps to try to replicate the noise while under the car. My car behaves exactly the same however it’s not that noticeable, plus the car is 10 years old and over 156k miles on its original everything. I bought stabiliser bar bushes and links as usually these are the first things to go and cause similar problems, however every check while servicing shows no play at all.  If your car under warranty fight for your rights , if not you may have two options, live with it, or part ex for Corolla which is better car imo. Hope you find best for you solution. 
Good luck 👍

[Fostel]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Lol, with that knocks should be easy to find, perhaps sometimes it’s not. It sounds to me like something is loose shocks, top mounts, shock bearings or steering rack inner joints or the rack itself, can be anything, Toyota garage should be able find out. You will need a ramp like one for the mot that can wiggle the suspension and shock tester ramps to try to replicate the noise while under the car. My car behaves exactly the same however it’s not that noticeable, plus the car is 10 years old and over 156k miles on its original everything. I bought stabiliser bar bushes and links as usually these are the first things to go and cause similar problems, however every check while servicing shows no play at all.  If your car under warranty fight for your rights , if not you may have two options, live with it, or part ex for Corolla which is better car imo. Hope you find best for you solution. 
Good luck 👍

I know. It's not even funny. I had 4 people checking the car, had it on the MOT ramp and nobody can pinpoint this issue.

I ordered stabilizer links (Lemforder), top strut mounts (KYB), tie rod ends (Lemforder). I may add struts if they are the problem but if the issue is with a steering rack I would rather dump the car to the river than Shell £3k at stealership to replace it. They want me to beg them for a car check or even parts pricing and I am a paying customer. Shameful service from Toyota UK.

The car is 7 years old, so no warranty. I remember there was a TSB about steering rack but now it is too late.

[TonyHSD]

Just do the links as these are most common and sometimes difficult to find out if they are bad, try them wiggle with wheels on the ground and if they move easily just change them because it sounds to me like bad stabiliser links , don’t change anything else for now. If unsure don’t put top mounts shocks and steering rack yet, and try to find another garage not Toyota. If you change parts without needing change it’s waste of time and money, I rather drive like that or sell the car. 

[AisinW]

First of all, suspension noise is really hard to debug unless you go to experience specialist, suspension alignment shop.  Start from it, not Stealership. Once they found out, ask their estimate for repair.  City drive with many potholes is 100x worse than smooth highway miles.   

KYB, Sachs, Fox, Birstein are TOYOTA OEM parts. Mostly KYB, and they are much higher quality than Monroe, Gabriel, etc.  

Rare parts that failed: balljoint, spring, struts mount, tie rods, steering racks.  Common  failures: stabilizer bar links and bushings, and struts/shocks (bad roads), and control arms bushings. But generally in USA and Germany with a good road,  it takes about 12 years before it needs replacement unless you drive in  Alps or Rocky mountain lot. 

I never heard electric powersteering problems in Corolla or prius below 400k miles. 

Check for stabilizer links and bushings first, and then control arms. Those are the front lines in front  suspension. Struts mount last much longer than struts and shocks and replacing both at the same time is not a bad idea since the labor cost the most. But I would never waste my money on those. Shock problems is obvious from very loose steering and bouncy rides. Struts mount also obvious from hard to turn and knocking sound if you push the car down by body weight.  So, rubber Bushings, and end links. Those are the first one fail all the time. 

 

[AisinW]

From your steering video, it is not engine mount,  struts, or stabilizer bar components. It is steering components, very strange. Go to alignment shop and they will put it on the lift. By moving the wheel at 3 an 9 a clock very fast, they can pin point the problems,  the steering rack, inner and outer tie road ends, or simple things like loose or missing bolts somewhere. 

[AisinW]

On 10/22/2020 at 7:23 PM, Fostel said:

I know. It's not even funny. I had 4 people checking the car, had it on the MOT ramp and nobody can pinpoint this issue.

I ordered stabilizer links (Lemforder), top strut mounts (KYB), tie rod ends (Lemforder). I may add struts if they are the problem but if the issue is with a steering rack I would rather dump the car to the river than shell £3k at stealership to replace it. They want me to beg them for a car check or even parts pricing and I am a paying customer. Shameful service from Toyota UK.

The car is 7 years old, so no warranty. I remember there was a TSB about steering rack but now it is too late.

Did you solve your problem yet?  I am afraid you will keep dumping money on something not related to your complaint. New struts and stabilizer links indeed helps the firmness after 7 years but it does not mean the old one broken, may be just some wear but still 70-90% like new.   I just changed the rear stabilizer links. The rubber parts are really worn out but the joint is still really good.  I also change the stabilizer bushing but it is still looks like new.  The stabilizer links were destroyed during removal because the nuts got stuck. Stabilizer links form Toyota is really really good, but the tread and nuts always cause issue when removing it.  I wished I only change the rubber parts for much cheaper price and 10 minutes job instead of 1 hour cursing try to remove that damn nuts on the joints. 

Now my car feels really firm and tight in winding road, no more leaning like boat. Just because of that 2 rubber parts on the stabilizer links.