2013 Auris Excel Touring Sports Hybrid - Suspension Knock (noise, rattle)

[Fostel]

On 3/31/2021 at 1:25 PM, AisinW said:

Did you solve your problem yet?  I am afraid you will keep dumping money on something not related to your complaint.

No, I didn't. The knock/rattle is still there. I was driving less recently but managed to add 2k miles. The weather improved lately so I planned engine oil/ air filter/ brake fluid replacement early just to check again for the suspension/ steering noise as it seems to be more prominent now.

I worry that it may be a steering rack issue (bushes) or steering column (I found a lot of rust in the bottom part) and will not manage to repair it myself. I really wanted to DIY this.

On 2/8/2021 at 7:53 AM, AisinW said:

[...] Birstein are TOYOTA OEM parts. [...]

Do you mean Febi Bilstein? I wanted to order Tie Rod Ends and Stabiliser Links from them but now I guess I will wait till I double-check this as the steering may be a probable cause.

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

you very likely no need to change anything on the suspension but you need to spray all rubber bushes with some silicone spray or rubber rejuvenating solution, something that cleans and helps rubber to restore its elastic properties. I use wd-40 special silicone spray on the suspension arms and no knocks or creaks, there was an episode from Scotty Kilmer the car guy from US, he knows about Toyota lots of things and he uses same methods with some American stuff. , works a treat. 👍

[Fostel]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

you very likely no need to change anything on the suspension but you need to spray all rubber bushes with some silicone spray or rubber rejuvenating solution, something that cleans and helps rubber to restore its elastic properties. I use wd-40 special silicone spray on the suspension arms and no knocks or creaks, there was an episode from Scotty Kilmer the car guy from US, he knows about Toyota lots of things and he uses same methods with some American stuff. , works a treat. 👍

I've done this. It's not the issue here, unfortunately. Thanks for your input though.

[AisinW]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:39 PM, Fostel said:

I've done this. It's not the issue here, unfortunately. Thanks for your input though.

For front ends noise,  I never get any solution on regular mechanics or Stealership.  Only specialist Front ends or alignment shop found what my problems in the past.  They really know how to diagnose suspension parts. Back in 2010, they found how the dealership installed wrong direction of the crossmember reinforcement and missing 1 bolt on the exhaust causing crazy vibration at 1500 rpm.  Just my suggestions, go to very reputable Alignment shop. 

[BigRedSwitch]

Do you have a Catloc fitted?  Mine became loose and was knocking on the silencer; this sound was being transmitted through to the rear and could have been mistaken for suspension noise.

[AisinW]

Catloc is important in UK and USA with tons of Cat thieves.  thick 3mm steel plate will not rattle. 

Do not change any Original genuine parts. Especially ball joint, they never go bad forever, literally 1 Million miles.  The tie-rod and stabilizer links are 10x more expensive than aftermarket because it is indeed 10x more durable.  There is no point replacing excellent part with inferior aftermarket.  The nuts and bolts may be rusted and removing them often destroy it, especially stabilizer links.   The links form Toyota are freely and smoothly moving, not stiff like aftermarket because it has composite polymer housing and very-very durable.  Aftermarket with old tech metal housing are stiff at the beginning and wear out fast and start knocking. 

What I found that can go bad are  the rubber bottom on rear stabilizer bar links and rarely the front stabilizer bar bushing.   

 

[AisinW]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:02 PM, Fostel said:

No, I didn't. The knock/rattle is still there. I was driving less recently but managed to add 2k miles. The weather improved lately so I planned engine oil/ air filter/ brake fluid replacement early just to check again for the suspension/ steering noise as it seems to be more prominent now.

I worry that it may be a steering rack issue (bushes) or steering column (I found a lot of rust in the bottom part) and will not manage to repair it myself. I really wanted to DIY this.

Do you mean Febi Bilstein? I wanted to order Tie Rod Ends and Stabiliser Links from them but now I guess I will wait till I double-check this as the steering may be a probable cause.

Febi Bilstein is cheap decent aftermarket.  Bilstein shock/struts is high-end struts, as good as OEM KYB, completely different company as Febi/Swag.  There are good brands: SKF, KYB, INA/!Removed!/RUVILLE, Bilstein, KOYO, Aisin, NTN, Timken, TRP, Sach/Stabillus. Stick with those for front end and suspension parts. 

 

[TonyHSD]

For Japanese cars the first company for spare parts that should look for except oem obviously is Blueprint. These are of the highest quality aftermarket parts and very often are the same as the original one only difference is that they comes in blue boxes not red and white. 👍 all of the above can be good too, although I will look at blueprint first. 

[AisinW]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

For Japanese cars the first company for spare parts that should look for except oem obviously is Blueprint. These are of the highest quality aftermarket parts and very often are the same as the original one only difference is that they comes in blue boxes not red and white. 👍 all of the above can be good too, although I will look at blueprint first. 

Yes, Blue print is decent aftermarket, but not at the same level as KYB, Bilstein, KOYO, SKF, AISIN, Lemfoerder, or Schaeffler. But no one sell Toyota Original/Genuine Balljoint, Oil seals, or Bushings. Only dealer sell it.  The front stabilizer links could be made by SKF and Struts/shocks by KYB or Billstein, not blueprint.  However, they are not identical  but very close.   Struts mount from KYB and from Toyota-KYB are not identical, the OEM parts has better finish and constructions.  The only thing that identical are AISIN waterpump, lower control arms, and offcourse Mobil1 0w-20 or 0w16, it is just resticker with Toyota Badge.  

I love Blueprint filters for non suspension parts like busings like balljoints, engine mounts, or control arms.  I always go with AISIN or Toyota.  The control arm from Aisin/Toyota could last 200k miles or more but aftermarket always fail within 30-50k miles, the rubber crack or torn pretty fast, and balljoints knocking.  For brake disc, Bosch, Brembo, or Zimmermann are great but for pads Toyota with ZYYxxxxxx part numbers are actually aftermarket with Toyota box (approved by Toyota) and usually made by Aisin or Textar. 

[Fostel]

Thank you for so many replies lads.

On 4/20/2021 at 3:29 PM, AisinW said:

Just my suggestions, go to very reputable Alignment shop. 

Can you recommend any?

On 4/21/2021 at 4:01 AM, BigRedSwitch said:

Do you have a Catloc fitted?

No, I don't.

On 4/21/2021 at 10:59 AM, AisinW said:

[...]Do not change any Original genuine parts. Especially ball joint, they never go bad forever, literally 1 Million miles.  The tie-rod and stabilizer links are 10x more expensive than aftermarket because it is indeed 10x more durable.  There is no point replacing excellent part with inferior aftermarket.[...]

What I found that can go bad are  the rubber bottom on rear stabilizer bar links and rarely the front stabilizer bar bushing.

I already purchased stabilizer links (Lemförder 35003 01). I also ordered (not yet arrived) Tie Rod End from Febi Bilstein 43218/43219. I was considering that the knock may be caused by Ball Joints but I make sure to double check them as you are saying they never go bad. Noted to check rear parts too.

On 4/21/2021 at 11:02 AM, AisinW said:

Febi Bilstein is cheap decent aftermarket.  Bilstein shock/struts is high-end struts, as good as OEM KYB, completely different company as Febi/Swag.  There are good brands: SKF, KYB, INA/!Removed!/RUVILLE, Bilstein, KOYO, Aisin, NTN, Timken, TRP, Sach/Stabillus. Stick with those for front end and suspension parts.

Thanks a ton for a great info. For struts I was researching KYB but since I while I am into suspension lifting. If I need a whole suspension overhaul I might as well upgrade it. Not sure if I should use alternative (longer) struts/shocks/springs or just go with the lift-kits: https://priusoffroad.com/shop/ols/products/gen3-prius-lift-kit

On 4/21/2021 at 1:01 PM, TonyHSD said:

For Japanese cars the first company for spare parts that should look for except oem obviously is Blueprint. These are of the highest quality aftermarket parts and very often are the same as the original [...]

That is a shocker for me! I thought that Blue Print is unreliable and not recommended. They are readily available but I always dismissed them. A bummer! Thanks.

[AisinW]

2 minutes ago, Fostel said:

Thank you for so many replies lads.

Can you recommend any?

No, I don't.

I already purchased stabilizer links (Lemförder 35003 01). I also ordered (not yet arrived) Tie Rod End from Febi Bilstein 43218/43219. I was considering that the knock may be caused by Ball Joints but I make sure to double check them as you are saying they never go bad. Noted to check rear parts too.

Thanks a ton for a great info. For struts I was researching KYB but since I while I am into suspension lifting. If I need a whole suspension overhaul I might as well upgrade it. Not sure if I should use alternative (longer) struts/shocks/springs or just go with the lift-kits: https://priusoffroad.com/shop/ols/products/gen3-prius-lift-kit

That is a shocker for me! I thought that Blue Print is unreliable and not recommended. They are readily available but I always dismissed them. A bummer! Thanks.

I recommend you not to replace balljoint with 10x worse from aftermarket. There is no single case balljoint failure in Corolla or Auris unless it is aftrrmarket balljoint or bad accident. 

[Fostel]

On 4/21/2021 at 4:31 PM, AisinW said:

Yes, Blue print is decent aftermarket, but not at the same level as KYB, Bilstein, KOYO, SKF, AISIN, Lemfoerder, or Schaeffler. But no one sell Toyota Original/Genuine Balljoint, Oil seals, or Bushings. Only dealer sell it.  The front stabilizer links could be made by SKF and Struts/shocks by KYB or Billstein, not blueprint.  However, they are not identical  but very close.   Struts mount from KYB and from Toyota-KYB are not identical, the OEM parts has better finish and constructions.  The only thing that identical are AISIN waterpump, lower control arms, and offcourse Mobil1 0w-20 or 0w16, it is just resticker with Toyota badge.  

I love Blueprint filters for non suspension parts like busings like balljoints, engine mounts, or control arms.  I always go with AISIN or Toyota.  The control arm from Aisin/Toyota could last 200k miles or more but aftermarket always fail within 30-50k miles, the rubber crack or torn pretty fast, and balljoints knocking.  For brake disc, Bosch, Brembo, or Zimmermann are great but for pads Toyota with ZYYxxxxxx part numbers are actually aftermarket with Toyota box (approved by Toyota) and usually made by Aisin or Textar. 

Thanks for sharing this. All noted.

I installed Ferodo PREMIER ECO FRICTION (FDB4048 and FDB4136) with Brembo UV painted disks. Did you have any experience with them? I am interested in your opinion.

[AisinW]

1 hour ago, Fostel said:

Thanks for sharing this. All noted.

I installed Ferodo PREMIER ECO FRICTION (FDB4048 and FDB4136) with Brembo UV painted disks. Did you have any experience with them? I am interested in your opinion.

 

Those are good choice.  I chose Zimmermann Zn coated disc and Aisin pads because  AISIN (€25) has GG pad grade, GF pad on Brembo or TRW. Anything higher than FF are good. Cheap pads are usually EE or FE.  I think Ferrodo is also great. I thought AISIN will be the same as original pads from Advics (€190) but they are not. Aisin is OEM toyota for transmission, waterpump, etc.  Also I have corrosion on the outher rims of the old disc because they are not painted or coated 

[Fostel]

Little update.

Just passed the MOT. I've done other 3.5k miles with the knocking since the last check-up.

Got advisories

• Play in the steering rack inner joint (Nearside)
• Play in the steering rack inner joint (Offside)

The play is more on the nearside, a tad on the offside.
Could this be my knocking issue? I doubt.
The knock I am experiencing and the rough ride is like I am going to lose the front and drive with no suspension 😉
Yet, the tester did not find anything wrong with tie rods, ball joints, struts, and steering links.

Edit:
Also, I cannot find the inner rod. Toyota does not sell them separately (only with the whole rack) so the only option is going aftermarket. Which ones and from where? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[TonyHSD]

12 minutes ago, Fostel said:

Little update.

Just passed the MOT. I've done other 3.5k miles with the knocking since the last check-up.

Got advisories

• Play in the steering rack inner joint (Nearside)
• Play in the steering rack inner joint (Offside)

The play is more on the nearside, a tad on the offside.
Could this be my knocking issue? I doubt.
The knock I am experiencing and the rough ride is like I am going to lose the front and drive with no suspension 😉
Yet, the tester did not find anything wrong with tie rods, ball joints, struts, and steering links.

Edit:
Also, I cannot find the inner rod. Toyota does not sell them separately (only with the whole rack) so the only option is going aftermarket. Which ones and from where? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

Hi, 

you can search eBay there are some tie rods for sale, not sure about the quality though but better than nothing. Best to check with vendors for correct fitting. 👍

[AisinW]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:02 PM, Fostel said:

No, I didn't. The knock/rattle is still there. I was driving less recently but managed to add 2k miles. The weather improved lately so I planned engine oil/ air filter/ brake fluid replacement early just to check again for the suspension/ steering noise as it seems to be more prominent now.

I worry that it may be a steering rack issue (bushes) or steering column (I found a lot of rust in the bottom part) and will not manage to repair it myself. I really wanted to DIY this.

Do you mean Febi Bilstein? I wanted to order Tie Rod Ends and Stabiliser Links from them but now I guess I will wait till I double-check this as the steering may be a probable cause.

Stabilizer links get F A G /Schaeffler 

[DJB52]

Hi Fostel,

Did you ever get to the bottom of this noise?

I've watched your videos and the noise your car was making is the same as what mine is doing now. (2015 Auris)

Back story: April 2024, I take my car for the MOT, i have 4 new tyres fitted and a few other bits. When I get my car back it's making that noise, I take the car back to the garage and they mentioned that a ball pint had a small bit of play in it and it could be that. I had that ball joint and boot seals done but the noise was still there. None of the mechanics could spot anything wrong. On the 3rd time of me taking the car back to the garage I saw a different mechanic who said "I've had most of the front end off and couldn't find anything wrong, I put everything back and the noise has stopped and I till don't know what it was"

 

Fast forward to the beginning of October, I have an issue the the sensor on the front off side tyre. I get that sorted but the exact same noise is back. All the garage did was take the wheel off! I took it back to the garage but they can't find anything obvious. 

 

Any help appreciated. 

Dave. 

 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, DJB52 said:

Hi Fostel,

Did you ever get to the bottom of this noise?

I've watched your videos and the noise your car was making is the same as what mine is doing now. (2015 Auris)

Back story: April 2024, I take my car for the MOT, i have 4 new tyres fitted and a few other bits. When I get my car back it's making that noise, I take the car back to the garage and they mentioned that a ball pint had a small bit of play in it and it could be that. I had that ball joint and boot seals done but the noise was still there. None of the mechanics could spot anything wrong. On the 3rd time of me taking the car back to the garage I saw a different mechanic who said "I've had most of the front end off and couldn't find anything wrong, I put everything back and the noise has stopped and I till don't know what it was"

 

Fast forward to the beginning of October, I have an issue the the sensor on the front off side tyre. I get that sorted but the exact same noise is back. All the garage did was take the wheel off! I took it back to the garage but they can't find anything obvious. 

 

Any help appreciated. 

Dave. 

 

 

 

It could be coming from the shock absorbers. 
Sometimes these can get rock hard and stop absorbing bumps and cause knock noises when going over bumps and pothole. The major sign is harsh drive. The problem can be intermittent and very difficult to find. 
When you had previously worked on the car the noise disappeared probably because the car was lifted off the ground, shock stretches and then put back on the ground shocks has “fixed themselves “. 
Now on your latest visit the car was off the ground again and your front  shocks has stretched again and on returning the car back on the ground they became stuck again. , harsh ride and knocking noises possible. 
The reason why it is happening that is internal shock failure due to bad oil, oil valves or debris, rust, dust etc., or defective part.
 To check absorbers for proper functioning you need to drive over bumps and watch for the wheels moving up and down and how the car absorbs these uneven terrain. Use shocks testers that shakes the car and monitor shocks operating. Or very important test is to lift up the car with wheels off the ground, wait 20 min and lower the car quickly down with hydraulic lift. Watch if the car moves down and up again. If not and stays like a rock solid it will point towards bad shocks. Shocks can fail not only when loosen up and make the car wobbly but like the got stuck and hard. All that said might not be your case and you or your mechanic needs to test  these the way explained above and in any other sensible ways to confirm shocks malfunction before you change them. 
Good luck 👍

 

[DJB52]

28 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

It could be coming from the shock absorbers. 
Sometimes these can get rock hard and stop absorbing bumps and cause knock noises when going over bumps and pothole. The major sign is harsh drive. The problem can be intermittent and very difficult to find. 
When you had previously worked on the car the noise disappeared probably because the car was lifted off the ground, shock stretches and then put back on the ground shocks has “fixed themselves “. 
Now on your latest visit the car was off the ground again and your front  shocks has stretched again and on returning the car back on the ground they became stuck again. , harsh ride and knocking noises possible. 
The reason why it is happening that is internal shock failure due to bad oil, oil valves or debris, rust, dust etc., or defective part.
 To check absorbers for proper functioning you need to drive over bumps and watch for the wheels moving up and down and how the car absorbs these uneven terrain. Use shocks testers that shakes the car and monitor shocks operating. Or very important test is to lift up the car with wheels off the ground, wait 20 min and lower the car quickly down with hydraulic lift. Watch if the car moves down and up again. If not and stays like a rock solid it will point towards bad shocks. Shocks can fail not only when loosen up and make the car wobbly but like the got stuck and hard. All that said might not be your case and you or your mechanic needs to test  these the way explained above and in any other sensible ways to confirm shocks malfunction before you change them. 
Good luck 👍

 

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your reply.

The thing is, between April and October the car has been on the ramp 2 other times getting new tyres fitted on the front with no issues.  (I've had some bad luck this year with punctures) 

David. 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, DJB52 said:

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your reply.

The thing is, between April and October the car has been on the ramp 2 other times getting new tyres fitted on the front with no issues.  (I've had some bad luck this year with punctures) 

David. 

You right , 

I just wanted to point another possibility. 
Generally speaking if it’s just a noises leave it until worsen and it will be easier to find the real cause. 

[DJB52]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

You right , 

I just wanted to point another possibility. 
Generally speaking if it’s just a noises leave it until worsen and it will be easier to find the real cause. 

Yeah, it is a blumming mystery as the car has passed an MOT and gone through a full service since this started and nothing has been flagged up. 

 

David. 

[AisinW]

@DJB52 Boot seals should be original Toyota. After market rarely last long. I never have failed ball joints in any Toyota cars, only on trucks over time they got loose. Especially 2000s Hillux/Tacoma, 4runner, and Prado. 

Knocking sounds that is hard to detect is from struts mounts or aftermarket struts. Front (right) Engine mounts rarely failed in hybrid but pretty often in non hybrid. 

Everything from steering racks, inner and outer tie rods are easy to detect when the car on the lift.