2010 Yaris timing chain stretched - adjustable or not?

[xenole999]

Took my Yaris TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i manual petrol in for a service and MOT a few days ago and it failed on 3 issues.

The first being 3 bulbs had blown (headlights not creating the correct pattern when the angle changes or something, although haven't really noticed when driving - did think there was just the one bulb that another Toyota dealer they replaced last year as I noticed a headlight wasn't working).

Second, replacement of the lower arm and coil spring on the driver's side.  Might explain why the car seems to tilt slightly and it's been a bumpier ride recently.

Third, the engine management light was on and now this seems to be an automatic fail.  Was told it was due to the timing chain being stretched.

Originally quoted just under £600 by my Toyota dealer to fix the first 2 issues.

Naturally, they did and charged me for the service and MOT (£129) even though the car failed the MOT.  Would have though MOT first and then a service if needed.

Then £80 to run a diagnostic check on the lit EML in order to tell me about the timing chain.

Apparently, it's going to be a few hour job in which the engine needs removed and the timing chain replaced which will cost towards £2k, so probably as much, if not more than the scrap value of the car.

No intention of paying £2600 on the off chance the car might then pass it's MOT, especially when the value to the car isn't even worth that.

Would rather not buy a new car (or used) at present as don't want to commit to another major expense what with the present Covid situation making everything unpredictable (but will if no other option - need a car for work and it suits me fine at present, age related niggles aside).

The first two issues, I'm fine with (no idea which bulbs are blown as I could possibly replace these myself), but is there any way of telling if the timing chain just needs the tension adjusted rather than a costly replacement?

I'm no mechanic, and I can't tell if it's complete overkill on the garage's part or if it could be a simpler fix. 

Might take it to another garage for a second opinion before committing to anything, although no idea if there's anywhere trustworthy, reliable etc. in the Greater Manchester area that's not going to rip me off or charge me a load more £££ to tell me the same thing.  Already set me back £200 for nothing.

[flash22]

First off get a second opinion, if a chain is stretched you will hear it, the tensioner is automatic

What error code(s) do you have ? Does the car run rough ? Does the car drive ok ? Was the light on before you took it to them ?

[bathtub tom]

I think you'll be wasting your money on a second opinion. If it's got a broken spring, then it'll have to be replaced to pass.

A lit EML is also a fail. There's no way to tension the chain manually. A stretched chain would normally give cam or crank sensor error. You could risk throwing money at replacing them, but I wouldn't. Can you hear the chain when the engine's warm?

[flash22]

Its not like a main stealer has never misdiagnosed a problem, They plug it into the computer they follow a diagnostics tree = new expensive part rather than diagnosing it correctly - the problem is dealerships rarely have knowledgable technicians, they are More like parts fitters - i have lost count of how many times i have heard dealers said change the ecu, when all it was, was a wire rubbed through or a pin fitment issue

obd2 codes are a symptom not a cause

if it has correlation code you will hear the chain slap for sure especially from cold

[Biomecanoid]

With that much money your should be able to buy the whole engine not just repair it.

[Mooly]

Have you owned this from new and also how many miles has it done... just curious on that one.

I wonder if disconnecting the Battery would reset the ECU and clear the code, at least for a while and allow an MOT to be done. Timing chain is a major strip down and as you say, potentially uneconomic at this age. Not good 😞

 

[stantheman1]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

Have you owned this from new and also how many miles has it done... just curious on that one.

I wonder if disconnecting the battery would reset the ECU and clear the code, at least for a while and allow an MOT to be done. Timing chain is a major strip down and as you say, potentially uneconomic at this age. Not good 😞

.....And has it had regular oil and filter changes?

[xenole999]

Got just under 85k miles on it and bought from new.

When I first turn the ignition on, there's a bit of engine noise for a few seconds before things calm down.  As I said, I'm no mechanic, so can't say exactly what's causing it / where it's coming from other than the engine area.

It's been burning oil a bit too much, so I've been topping the oil up.  

I assume they're changing the oil and filters every year when it goes in for a service.

Had some issues a little while ago where the Battery connections weren't tight enough, so the car wouldn't start, clock reset, internal lights came on but were very dim etc.  Tightened up both connectors properly and all is well in that respect.  Not sure if that would constitute a Battery disconnection to clear the ECU? (although it didn't in this case)

I'm happy to get the spring / arm replaced, although if it's going to cost ££££ to sort the EML / chain issue out, it's just throwing a few hundred £ away.

 

 

[bathtub tom]

2 hours ago, xenole999 said:

Got just under 85k miles on it and bought from new.

It's been burning oil a bit too much, so I've been topping the oil up.  

I assume they're changing the oil and filters every year when it goes in for a service.

I'm surprised it's burning oil at that mileage. Has it been main dealer serviced or independent and do you know what grade of oil's been used? Hopefully described on the invoice.

[xenole999]

Always main dealer and I've been topping up with 5W30 oil.  Probably equivalent Toyota branded oil when the dealer does it.

 

[Mooly]

Interesting. I have the 1.33 in the Auris and mine has done 70k and burns lots of oil (it is a known issue caused by feeble defective oil scraper rings). I've put in nearly 6 litres in 18 months and 10k miles. No problems beyond that though.

Your intermittent Battery connection wouldn't count as an ECU reset, in fact an intermittent connection could easily be something that could cause errors to be logged and generally confuse the electronics.

I wouldn't even hesitate here, disconnect the Battery for an hour (just the positive lead) and then reconnect it. Reconnect it decisively. Don't dither as the terminal makes the contact but push it firmly down on the Battery post and while holding it down all the time lightly tighten the clamp (as in don't overtighten).

When you start the engine it will seem rough and idle badly and may even stall. This is normal and just the ECU relearning the correct data values for your engine based on the engine sensor inputs. Just let it idle for 3 or 4 minutes and then drive it normally.

5W30 should be fine although the recommended grade is 0W20 for this engine, I use 5/30 by choice for mine. I wouldn't trust what the invoice says or what the dealer says tbh because in the first years I had mine serviced I was told that only 0W20 must be used and yet the invoice always had 5/30 listed. They would say one thing and put something else on the invoice. This happened several times.  

[bathtub tom]

Do you know what fault code(s) the EML is throwing up? If not, or the dealer won't tell you it could be worth investing in a cheap OBD code reader to find out. Mine paid for itself the first time I used it.

[Gerg]

Has anyone any experience of installing a cam chain by this different method? 

In the motorcycle world, there have been specialists for decades, who will fit a new, split,  camchain to machines with worn out one, by attaching the new chain to the end of the split-open old chain, feeding it through very carefully, checking the valve timing very carefully, and then fitting a special  'soft' rivet link (skill required here!) to make the chain continuous again.

The camchain tensioners and guides etc. should also be replaced when a new chain goes on, obviously, and only some of those parts can be replaced without taking the timing chest cover off, so this is a short-term fix with risks attached.

There are lots of good reasons why this isn't a 'proper' fix, but has anyone any experience of someone trying it?  I appreciate the new chain will wear faster without being fitted with all the parts in a camchain service kit, and the if the chain comes undone that it will comprehensively wreck the engine!

But hey!, this is what forums are for!  😄

[flash22]

Personally i wouldn't trust a split link chain, to get to the tensioner you have to take it apart if the chain is worn you know the guides are knackered

 

Back to the OP

If its burning oil as well, it will be more economic to put another used engine in the car, a guestimate of £1200-1500

 

Find out what the code is for before going any further, get a mot and get rid

[bathtub tom]

46 minutes ago, Gerg said:

Has anyone any experience of installing a cam chain by this different method? 

In the motorcycle world, there have been specialists for decades, who will fit a new, split,  camchain to machines with worn out one, by attaching the new chain to the end of the split-open old chain, feeding it through very carefully, checking the valve timing very carefully, and then fitting a special  'soft' rivet link (skill required here!) to make the chain continuous again.

The camchain tensioners and guides etc. should also be replaced when a new chain goes on, obviously, and only some of those parts can be replaced without taking the timing chest cover off, so this is a short-term fix with risks attached.

There are lots of good reasons why this isn't a 'proper' fix, but has anyone any experience of someone trying it?  I appreciate the new chain will wear faster without being fitted with all the parts in a camchain service kit, and the if the chain comes undone that it will comprehensively wreck the engine!

But hey!, this is what forums are for!  😄

The last cam chain I replaced (K11 Micra) had worn teeth on the central idler sprocket, the rest was serviceable, but I'd bought all the other parts by the time I'd stripped it.