NG Yaris - Rant! (Infotainment System)

[CPN]

Good grief Toyota! Why can't you get a simple thing like an Infotainment System right??!! Is it really so difficult for you to hire programmers that actually know what they're doing and more importantly, understand the customers' needs??

My previous 2017 Yaris Excel Hybrid's Touch 2 infotainment had no problem at all with having a small USB hub plugged in to its USB port and would actually handle it correctly in every way. The one I have is a triple and you could actually plug in 3 separate USB sticks at the same time (not that you would have a need...) and the system would see and recognize all three drives separately as would be expected. In other words, the normal operation of a USB hub with multiple ports. It even identified each port separately on the display!

Now we come to the new all singing, all dancing (supposedly) "Touch"(?) system in the NG Yaris (sigh....). I smelt a rat early on when I noticed that when you plugged a phone in to use Android Auto (or Apple Carplay I shouldn't wonder), as soon as the system detected the phone and fired up AA, it would replace the USB icon on the "Source" display screen (as opposed to adding an AA icon).

Still, I thought to myself, surely they wouldn't do something as stupid as making only the device plugged into the USB socket available for use would they? (and not allow the use of a USB hub with multiple ports) So, today I tried it with my 3 port hub. Plugged in the phone, no problem. AA up and running. Plugged in the USB stick and its "accessing" LED flashed a couple of times and then waited for a USB icon to appear.... and waited.... and waited.... nothing! So, unplugged the phone and hub, plugged the USB stick back in directly to the USB port and up came the USB icon straight away and started showing me the music that was on it! Aaaaargh!! What is wrong with you Toyota???

(...and before anyone says that Android Auto won't work via a USB Hub, you're wrong because I have checked directly with the "horse's mouth" (Google CS) and they assure me that Android Auto will work fine via a USB hub or multiple port device...)

It might seem like a minor irritant to others but when a new car is full of so much other tech stuff that works really well, things like this just let the whole thing down in my view...

(there, I feel a little bit better having got that off my chest! 😉)

[AndrueC]

Never trust a hardware manufacturer (Toyota in this case) to create software. Almost all of them treat software as an afterthought. Such projects are typically starved of resources, either directly (because the software team is treated like a pariah) or indirectly because they employ a third party and go with the lowest bid.

It's management fault, not the poor saps actually writing the code. Most of them give up and become bitter and twisted from having their dreams and aspirations crushed. Only a few lucky software developers manage to get out and work for companies that understand the needs and requirements of software development.

Apple is a rare example that bucks the trend. Unfortunately I refuse to limit myself to playing in someone's walled garden and absolutely refuse to pay through the nose for the privilege. It worries me sometimes, though, that that's perhaps what it takes for good software and hardware.

[CPN]

10 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Never trust a hardware manufacturer (Toyota in this case) to create software. Almost all of them treat software as an afterthought. Such projects are typically starved of resources, either directly (because the software team is treated like a pariah) or indirectly because they employ a third party and go with the lowest bid.

That's probably 100% correct...

10 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

It's management fault, not the poor saps actually writing the code. Most of them give up and become bitter and twisted from having their dreams and aspirations crushed. Only a few lucky software developers manage to get out and work for companies that understand the needs and requirements of software development.

Completely understand where you are coming from there... (I'm a retired Network Engineer/Computer Programmer and generic geek myself)

10 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Apple is a rare example that bucks the trend. Unfortunately I refuse to limit myself to playing in someone's walled garden and absolutely refuse to pay through the nose for the privilege. It worries me sometimes, though, that that's perhaps what it takes for good software and hardware.

Sounds like you completely share my feelings about Apple also Andrue! 😉

[CPN]

Just spoke with a nice understanding guy at Toyota GB Customer services and he suggested I send my observations in an email to "customer.recommendation@tgb.toyota.co.uk" so I sent them this...

"Dear Toyota,

I was asked by Customer Services (Joseph) if I wouldn't mind emailing my feelings and observations about my new car.

 

Firstly, this is the third Yaris Hybrid I have had in the last 6 years (the first two 2014 and 2017 models were identical Black Excel models) and I really couldn't be happier to own one of these cars as a vehicle but if I were marking a School Report card for Toyota in relation to the infotainment systems that you put in your cars than it would be "must try harder" I am afraid and I am sorry to have to say that the same applies to this new car also.

 

What were you thinking Toyota(?) not putting the extra module in as needed to give the car built-in SatNav in addition to Android Auto/Apple Carplay so that the customer can choose which to use; or at least offering its availability as an optional extra (although it is standard in many countries on the European Continent?). The main point about that is that maybe people don't want to tie up their smartphone solely for the car's use and at worst, may not even own a smartphone? What are they to do then, if they want Satnav??

 

Even worse, it would appear that the firmware in the head unit will not allow the use of a USB hub in the single USB socket so's to allow the use of multiple ports? (which both of the older cars did) I found this out today when I tried to have my smartphone plugged in and use a USB stick at the same time to access some specific music on it whilst still being able to use Android Auto. It was exasperating to see that when I already had my USB stick plugged in (& working) to a 3 port hub (plugged into the car's USB socket) and then when I plugged in my smartphone, to see the USB stick's port get instantly disabled as Android Auto came on. This is an irritating annoyance and completely unnecessary! I checked directly with Google Customer Services and they assured me that Android Auto should co-exist fine and work ok in a multi-port environment such as a USB hub situation. So, it begs the question, why did you write the firmware like that Toyota?? "MUST TRY HARDER"!!

 

Regards,"

 

I have since tried my 3 port USB hub on its own with two separate music containing USB sticks plugged in to it and rather infuriatingly, it works completely as expected in that it brings up two USB icons on the display and it is simple to switch back and forth between either source of music and so it seems to be purely a perceived "feature" (by Toyota) that Android Auto must have exclusive use of the USB port and exclude all others whilst it is in operation. (which is pants!!)

[flash22]

Problem is its qnx the units are made by 1 of three manufactures main 2 are Denso Ten (was Fujitsu Ten) or Panasonic aka Matsu****a (mat-sus-shi-ta)

Then the Nav if fitted is made by Harman

AA and AC takes full control of the USB the system it's designed for the phone to be a full multimedia device if it had the nav it would have the wifi AA/AC what is controlled by the Harman unit

As for the USB it depends on what they have specced the output standard is 250-500ma, you may want to try a powered hub, someone will have to experiment with a usb load to work it out the current

 

The PCB actually has the provision for a second USB port

[CPN]

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Problem is its qnx the units are made by 1 of three manufactures main 2 are Denso Ten (was Fujitsu Ten) or Panasonic aka Matsu****a (mat-sus-shi-ta)

Then the Nav if fitted is made by Harman

I knew that...

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

AA and AC takes full control of the USB the system is designed for the phone to be a full multimedia device if it had the nav it would have the wifi AA/AC what is controlled by the Harman unit

"AA" & "AC" are? That's as maybe but there is absolutely no need for it to take complete control of the port like that.

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

As for the USB it depends on what they have specced the output standard is 250-500ma, you may want to try a powered hub, someone will have to experiment with a usb load to work it out the current

It's nothing to do with power in this case Bob. As I already said, the two usb sticks I used for testing are the same sandisk units that draw microamps each so no overloading there at all for a 500ma port (which is a standard required of any USB 1.0, 1.1 & 2.0 ports and not 250-xx)

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

The PCB actually has the provision for a second USB port

I learnt that from elsewhere also...

[flash22]

AA - Android Auto

AC - Apple Carplay

 

There is not much info about on the later touch systems, I have a project on the back burner to pull the data off the SD but i need to prototype a PCB

You can limit usb current in the control chip or with a pull down

 

[CPN]

53 minutes ago, flash22 said:

AA - Android Auto

AC - Apple Carplay

Ah right. Well as I previously said (and I can't speak for Apple) Google has assured me that there is no need for AA to "take full control" of the USB port like it presently does in our (new) Toyotas.

53 minutes ago, flash22 said:

You can limit usb current in the control chip or with a pull down

I'm aware that that is possible but if you did, you'd be breaking USB policy standards. That's all I was saying. Up to the 2.0 standard, the min/max that a USB port should be capable of sourcing is 500ma. The newer USB 3.x standards allow for higher source currents...