emissions failure

[swazi]

I have what I believe is a 2009 Toyota Avensis. A 1.8 VVTI engine. It has failed the emissions test on MOT. Taken to a garage and taken parts off my older Toyota, a 2000 model 1.8VVTI.

The oxygen, the lambda the everything seem to be fine on the test. Parts from the 2009 model put onto the 2000 car to see if that would affect the old car. No joy.

Toyota say they can fix this for £700. They must be joking. No errors come up on normal garage test units, no errors at all.

Could someone help, please help.

[flash22]

Mileage ? What's the emissions readings - fuel trims, O2 readings, any lack of power or blue smoke ??

[Pippalump]

I used to have (sadly lost her last year) a 2001 VVTi .. Emissions were always a problem BUT her last mot was hard to get because of them. My GLS also had to have some tinkering to pass this year to.

She failed the first time for emissions after all the petrol and engine clean out stuff and it turned out it was the sensors. We replaced them one at a time so she failed 3 times lol

Her exhaust had 3 in it. £60 each but they were replaceable. One in the back, one in the front and one in the manifold. The 700 I guess they putting a new exhaust on? Both my VVTi and GLS exhausts are almost 700. Changing the sensors is a cheaper option depending on the condition of the exhaust its self.

I hope you get your one through soon

[mrfixer]

Please post up your emissions test results.

[swazi]

18 hours ago, flash22 said:

Mileage ? What's the emissions readings - fuel trims, O2 readings, any lack of power or blue smoke ??

Toyota Avensis TR 1.8 VVTI

mileage is 61433. 

fast idler lambda test manual lambda 1.052 

second fast idler test manual lambda 1.054

CO 0.00 on both tests 

HC on first test 2

HC on second test 0

no blue smoke lack of power - well difficult as I do not hammer the engine. But engine does use more fuel than my Avensis 2000 VVTI GLS

[swazi]

18 hours ago, Pippalump said:

I used to have (sadly lost her last year) a 2001 VVTi .. Emissions were always a problem BUT her last mot was hard to get because of them. My GLS also had to have some tinkering to pass this year to.

She failed the first time for emissions after all the petrol and engine clean out stuff and it turned out it was the sensors. We replaced them one at a time so she failed 3 times lol

Her exhaust had 3 in it. £60 each but they were replaceable. One in the back, one in the front and one in the manifold. The 700 I guess they putting a new exhaust on? Both my VVTi and GLS exhausts are almost 700. Changing the sensors is a cheaper option depending on the condition of the exhaust its self.

I hope you get your one through soon

The sensors have all been checked. The Lambda sensors changed with my X registered 1.8 VVTI GLS, which passed recently in November. Only thing I can think of is the exhaust is the fault, or, at least the cat converter. 

[swazi]

18 hours ago, flash22 said:

Mileage ? What's the emissions readings - fuel trims, O2 readings, any lack of power or blue smoke ??

👍

[swazi]

No, I am not a new member. Thing is I could not sign in. Could not remember my password either. Conrad has helped me in the past, others have advised on certain issues surrounding bits I have found interesting.

I do enjoy being back in the Club, would not allow me to use my old name. Such is life.

Hope one and all have a great Christmas. Watch the bug, watch the booze, especially in Bedfordshire as the Police are going to road block and test for alcohol content.

Leave the Benzine in the tank and enjoy

[flash22]

Lambda is a calculated value either

A. Your cat need to be replaced

B. The machine that was used wasn't purged or hasn't had its filter changed

or the cat needs to get needs to get good and hot (eg. A good thrashing) A cat needs to get hot to burn off the particulates

[TonyHSD]

Have you tried petrol system cleaner and an hour run on the motorway with some high rpm some times, no need hard acceleration or high speeds, just constantly high rpm 3000+ for 30 min, there are some good stuff proved to work. You are likely to have blocked catalytic converter, or burnt catalytic converter that can not do it’s job anymore, if it’s the first one petrol additive may help, if not and it’s the second one then replacement it’s only fix. There might be also some sort of carbon buildup that causes wrong fuel mixture burning and offset the emissions, spark plugs and coils can also cause problems. 

[swazi]

Well, at last I have the answer. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Answer - a small crack in the exhaust pipe of about 0.5cm long. How this happened ??? mystery. But, a bit of gun gum left to harden for a few hours has made the difference.

Retest coming up. Will have the exhaust pipe welded after the test to ensure this crack does not open up. Car tested by repair garage who do run MOT tests so I am more than hopeful.

Toyota wanted £800 to fix - they did not state it would be a complete exhaust replacement which could still leak at the joins in pipe and silencer parts and I would be back to square one until the exhaust has settled in.

[Gerg]

That's interesting. 

Would you be so kind as to describe where on the exhaust pipe the crack has appeared, especially with regards to proximity to the O2 sensors, catalyst etc?

Was the crack big enough to hear the difference in exhaust note?

Ta.

[Konrad C]

To be clear, the car is a late registered 2009 T25 with the 1ZZ-FE engine? My Avensis is an early T27 with 2ZR-FAE Valvematic engine (58 plate), registered January 2009. Probably explains why Michael can exchange parts with his T22 VVTi. 

If I am correct, if the crack is near the sensors, especially before the second post sensor, it with read too much oxygen and compensate. Let's hope the weld fixes the problem. Sad we don't have access to exhaust analysers, like in the old days of Gunsen. I have one of those, but not much use these days. 

Gerg psoted as I was typing this. 

 

[Gerg]

Just now, Konrad C said:

If I am correct, if the crack is near the sensors, especially before the second post sensor,

Ah,OK, thanks.  It's easy to forget hat the pressure waves have negative pressure behind them, so the exhaust gas gets diluted...

I had a Gunsons exhaust analyzer!  My one was bought from Argos, over 30 years ago.  I couldn't get any sensible reading out of it at all, so I took it back!

I still have their xenon strobe lamp and Colortune kit.  Have you seen the Gunson's website?  They still do a lot of stuff!

https://www.gunson.co.uk/Index

[Pippalump]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:02 PM, swazi said:

 

Toyota wanted £800 to fix - they did not state it would be a complete exhaust replacement which could still leak at the joins in pipe and silencer parts and I would be back to square one until the exhaust has settled in.

Lol just as I thought I might put a new middle section on the GLS instead of the multiple welds the VVTi had i read that 😉  Like the VVTi the GLS has a slight blow in that middle bit.

Glad your one is fixed and I wonder of thats why my old lady needed the front sensor as ALL her blows were at the front.  We expected it to be the manifold or the cack one hence doing them one by one lol. You know I still miss that car, the GLS is similar but its just not the same though my lady put me off VVTi's for life lol.

Fingers  crossed your one will pass the retest. 

[swazi]

I have a spare sensor for the Avensis 1.8vvti year 2008/2009. Think they are all the same. anyone in a jam can take this free

[swazi]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:57 PM, Konrad C said:

To be clear, the car is a late registered 2009 T25 with the 1ZZ-FE engine? My Avensis is an early T27 with 2ZR-FAE Valvematic engine (58 plate), registered January 2009. Probably explains why Michael can exchange parts with his T22 VVTi. 

If I am correct, if the crack is near the sensors, especially before the second post sensor, it with read too much oxygen and compensate. Let's hope the weld fixes the problem. Sad we don't have access to exhaust analysers, like in the old days of Gunsen. I have one of those, but not much use these days. 

Gerg psoted as I was typing this. 

 

Have always appreciated your replies Konrad. I will have to get the crack sorted out by an expert welder so the sensor is not compromised. For some reason I am told the sensor cannot be removed to weld. This was told to me by the boss of the garage, a very good honest person who does not like to rip people off. @Bandage it, it will make no difference to performance. Next year we bandage it again'. Now and again we do find people like this.

 

[Konrad C]

On 3/14/2021 at 9:04 AM, swazi said:

Have always appreciated your replies Konrad. I will have to get the crack sorted out by an expert welder so the sensor is not compromised. For some reason I am told the sensor cannot be removed to weld. This was told to me by the boss of the garage, a very good honest person who does not like to rip people off. @Bandage it, it will make no difference to performance. Next year we bandage it again'. Now and again we do find people like this.

 

If you have already removed the sensor when you tried one from another car, then tell the garage boss what you have done already. Not being present to your conversation, I can only assume the garage boss is going by experience that some sensors are seized tight, so trying to remove them can damage them. Once he is aware your sensor is not seized and that you have removed it recently, he should have a different perspective to your car. How close is the crack to the catalytic convertor? The catalytic convertor honeycomb could suffer damage from the welding process! 

[Gerg]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:59 AM, swazi said:

I have a spare sensor for the Avensis 1.8vvti year 2008/2009.

Could it not be best to keep the spare one until the exhaust crack is fixed - just in case the one in the car gets damaged during the repair process?

If you are certain that it will not be needed, then I will happily collect it from you, I live about 10 miles from Luton!

[gezhenry]

FYI a slight leak in your exhaust almost anywhere eg. in backbox/flanges et c can lead to high mot lambda readings as the readings/probe are taken from the end of the exhaust pipe and that's where the extra O2 will be detecte d.

[JiiN]

49 minutes ago, gezhenry said:

FYI a slight leak in your exhaust almost anywhere eg. in backbox/flanges et c can lead to high mot lambda readings as the readings/probe are taken from the end of the exhaust pipe and that's where the extra O2 will be detecte d.

I was just coming to tell this! I had few years ago a tiny leak in next to rear silencer and emission values went awfully wrong. With repaired exhaust everything was just like it should be.