Battery weakness in Auris Hybrid

[johncon13]

I've owned my Auris from new in March 2013 and have always enjoyed it. I live in sunny Sitges near Barcelona and only average about 10,00km a year, mainly in in short runs.

With the cold weather this month I've encountered a problem with starting - no Battery! But I have a super, tiny, jump start gadget which I keep in the glove compartment and once you know how to do it , it is very easy to start the car and carry on. It's happened to me twice now and the local Toyota distributor workshop head told me it's not unknown and that I should take the car on a 50 km run, ideally on the motorway. to fully charge the Battery. I did this but 7 days later the same thing happened .

Has anyone else suffered the same? Does it mean my  batteries are dying?  Solutions?

[furtula]

How short are your runs, have you measured Battery voltage, has the service been regularly done, when was the Battery last replaced, how cold was in the last 2 weeks where you at, how often do you drive the car?

[TonyHSD]

Yeah, nothing unusually here. Short town trips kills Battery in long term to the point that when temperatures drops the Battery is unable to provide enough voltage, one option is to trickle charge with a good quality charger for 24 hrs out of the car then use more frequently or keep the car in ready mode twice a week for 30-40 min to recharge the Battery. If this doesn’t help new battery is your second option. 👍

[flash22]

7-10 years about right for the 12v Battery, Replace it with the correct type

[Catlover]

My Prius Gen has not been started for 11 days, had some frosty nights sine and again last night. Went to it this morning and some dash lights lit up, but not enough to kick in the hybrid Battery, gave me a warning though about the low 12v Battery.    Got my Suaoki out, lifted the bonnet (yes on Gen4 Prius the 12v Battery under bonnet), connected across the battery, and by the time I had got to the driving seat (max 15 secs) the car lit up, disconnected the Suaoki and went for a drive which was 7 mile, and the car still did 54 mpg, from stoney cold.  The Suaoki was an Amazon purchase over 2 years ago, it charges by the older typr Anroid cable (not the latest C connection). plus a usb connection so you can power or charge USB deviices like a smartphone (Android or Apple), plus a torch, which also sends SOS flashes, and a connection to plug in the battery jump leads. Cost me £30, no doubt £40 now, but no need to spend big money. It will turnover petrol and diesel car engines up to about 2.5 litre diese,. bigger petrol engine. Amazing, and its slightly smaller then my 6.2" Google Pixel smartphone.                                         For some reason I cannot load photos - used to be able to but something must have changed on the site.     

[FROSTYBALLS]

22 minutes ago, Catlover said:

For some reason I cannot load photos - used to be able to but something must have changed on the site.     

Although the site had an update in December, photos can still be uploaded.

[Catlover]

How? 

As I am typing I can see "drag files here to attach, or choose files", I can manage that, but that wasnt showing like that earlier.

Photos attached of the Suaok

Noticed also, once I have posted I cannot get back in to Edit. Could at one time.

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

once I have posted I cannot get back in to Edit.

Although my set up may be different to yours, you may have three dots in the top right hand corner of your post. Clicking on those, should show a drop down menu, and the edit button will be there for you to click on. As previously, there will be a limited time for members to edit posts, although moderators can edit posts at any time.

[Bernard Foy]

2 hours ago, flash22 said:

7-10 years about right for the 12v battery, Replace it with the correct type

I would tend to agree with Flash re life of 12v Battery, and frosty nights will highlight a failing Battery. Also replace with the correct type Battery.

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Although my set up may be different to yours, you may have three dots in the top right hand corner of your post. Clicking on those, should show a drop down menu, and the edit button will be there for you to click on. As previously, there will be a limited time for members to edit posts, although moderators can edit posts at any time.

Thanks Frosty, never even noticed the 3 dots, and yes, there was a means to edit. 

[johncon13]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the imput.

I use the car every day but normally only do about 5 km/ I drive to the gym!!!!!! Since the problem started I do a longer run  every 3 days . I've only done 68000 km from new

I've serviced the  every year and the last Battery check (July 2020) said everything was OK.

Quite frankly I didn't even know I had a 12 volt Battery in the car! Where is it hidden? If I  knew where it is,  changing it would be no problem.

[TonyHSD]

On 1/15/2021 at 1:06 PM, Catlover said:

How? 

As I am typing I can see "drag files here to attach, or choose files", I can manage that, but that wasnt showing like that earlier.

Photos attached of the Suaok

Noticed also, once I have posted I cannot get back in to Edit. Could at one time.

That’s a really good idea, Thank you for sharing. Once the Battery drained to the point it will require a jump start then is good to be taken out and charged for long time on suitable charger or the car gets proper use like travelling 4+ hrs without switching off the engine to allow for full recharge of the Battery. 👍🚗

[Catlover]

On 1/17/2021 at 7:45 AM, johncon13 said:.

Quite frankly I didn't even know I had a 12 volt battery in the car! Where is it hidden? If I  knew where it is,  changing it would be no problem.

Try the boot, drivers side, under the carpet.

Its an AGM Battery, not your standard lead acid Battery. Space under the bonnet for a 12v Battery is limited hence the boot is used. It’s not a lead acid battery because it is now within the passenger area and if there was a rear end collision and the battery split open acid would be flying around the passenger area.  When the time for replacement do ensure you replace with AGM which is more expensive then a “standard” battery but the good news is Toyota are VERY competitive on price, so no need to do a lot of shopping about.

[johncon13]

Thanks to all of you. I found it. Back right hand side in the boot and you have to remove a small side panel- easy.

I decided that having had to use the jump start twice the Battery was dying and so I had it replaced it at a cost of 136 Euros- it is a special Battery as you advised me. The old one was pushing 8 years old but, being where it was, it was pristine.

And our temperatures have gone up- 11º at 8 am as opposed to 3ª when I was having the problem.

Stay safe 

 

Johncon

[Gerg]

2 hours ago, johncon13 said:

And our temperatures have gone up- 11º at 8 am as opposed to 3ª when I was having the problem.

I seem to remember from school chemistry 'the rate of reaction doubles for every 10 degrees centigrade rise in temperature', so the cooler temperatures will drag the battery's efforts down somewhat.

Whilst the suggestion was surely well-intentioned from your garage, the Battery on these Toyota hybrids charges at the same rate, regardless of what the car is doing whilst the 'system' is on.  If you want to top up the 12v Battery, it doesn't matter if you are on the motorway, in traffic, or on your driveway - if the 'system' is switched 'on' and ready to select 'drive', or in 'drive', then the charge to the 12v will be at the same rate.

Also, just as background, AGM batteries in any application don't charge quickly,  the optimum charge rate is 10% of the Battery capacity (which is 35 Ah), so around 3 - 4 amps.  It can take overnight or more on a trickle charger to get one of these batteries back up to full charge.  But yours sounds like it was on its last legs anyway, and for the value of whatever was left in the battery - who needs the aggravation or the unreliability? 

In sunny Sitges I'm sure there are a billion better things to cheerily engage with on the last day of Trump.

[TonyHSD]

One tip from me: 

 if for any reason your hybrid Battery goes flat and you jump started and there is no option to recharge it  with charger or not able to drive the car just spend one night in the car in ready mode for at least 6-8hrs and your Battery will recharge nicely. Dealer probably advised motorway driving as for the longer duration of time. 👍

[Parts-King]

We have started stocking solar Battery conditioner (trickle chargers) they work really well on Hybrids, keeps the Battery topped up etc, relatively cheap. They sit on the dash doing their thing, several connections via lighter or Battery connectors. Ideal if your car sits on the drive more than you drive it

[BigRedSwitch]

Can we have some more details about the trickle charger please: size, cost, long cables to the Battery included? 

Thank you.

[Parts-King]

12 minutes ago, BigRedSwitch said:

Can we have some more details about the trickle charger please: size, cost, long cables to the battery included? 

Thank you.

Sure, it will have to be tomorrow as I have just sold the last one, have got more coming over the next few days. I will take some pics of the unit, cables etc and post up as soon as I can. We tried it out on a couple of models and it worked well. I have to try and get away from using the term "Battery charger" as it actually is a Battery maintainer, more to follow.........

[Mikw]

11 hours ago, Parts-King said:

We have started stocking solar battery conditioner (trickle chargers) they work really well on Hybrids, keeps the battery topped up etc, relatively cheap. They sit on the dash doing their thing, several connections via lighter or battery connectors. Ideal if your car sits on the drive more than you drive it

I'd be interested in one of these

[Parts-King]

Details of Ring Solar Battery maintainer:

Comes with suction cups for easy mounting, supplied with 12 DC power lead, plus Battery clips, durable weather resistant casing, flashing LED charge indicator, 2.7 metre connecting lead, reverse polarity protector, 1.5W Some photos below, Price £25.99 plus carriage. Can plug onto Battery or via aux input, mount the solar panel on the dash if your car is parked outside, or if you garage the car, you can mount the panel outside and run the cables into the garage

[BigRedSwitch]

Kingpo, the photos of the solar-powered Battery maintainer don't show a separate "intelligent charge controller" to prevent the Battery being overcharged.  Is there an ICC within the solar charger?

[Mooly]

The technical details for the Ring chargers show a maximum output of 17.5V, however the current is so low (in real terms) that the Battery itself will tend to self limit the voltage i.e as the voltage across the terminals rises the Battery will try and draw more current and because the panel can not deliver that current the voltage just levels out at some indeterminate value.

A larger panel used with a smaller capacity Battery would imo be more at risk of overcharging than using a smaller panel and larger battery.

 

[Parts-King]

22 hours ago, BigRedSwitch said:

Kingpo, the photos of the solar-powered battery maintainer don't show a separate "intelligent charge controller" to prevent the battery being overcharged.  Is there an ICC within the solar charger?

it does not specifically say it has, but at such low voltage, I think an overcharge is highly unlikely, it is designed for daily use 

[Mooly]

Perhaps you could measure the open circuit voltage from one in good light and see what voltage it reads and also then try with a small load such as a panel light. You would need a light of just 0.5 watt or so which would draw around 40 to 50 milliamps over the expected voltage range.

I suspect that with the Battery in the car and powering up the vehicle backup circuitry that there won't be a real issue because that small continuous current will load the panel enough to pull its voltage down.

Conversely if you used the larger panel with its higher current output then that could cause a real possibility of overcharging as much more current would be available, particularly in strong sunlight. Such a warning would apply to anyone using such panels to keep a disconnected Battery (such as in storage) charged.

(as an OT thought I wonder why the software in the vehicle can not be programmed to automatically keep the Battery charged and so prevent users from being stranded. When charge drops to say 50% the battery could be topped off again, something like ready mode but a now a specific mode to keep the battery healthy. That battery issues seem to be the number one complaint on the forums concerning Hybrids shows that the designs are seriously flawed... no new and modern vehicle should be leaving its owner stranded when it is not used for a few days)