Yaris Hybrid 2020 TNGA - Hybrid System Malfunction

[RickyC]

5 hours ago, flash22 said:

The inverter has fail safes like overload protection there was a manufacturing fault with the diodes - a damper issue can cause the trans to throw an issue due to the way it reads the torque values

this is a UK based forum, so you will get a bias of UK cars, other forums may have reported issues but my German and Italian is lacking

I understand that on an UK based forum the higher probability to find complaints or thechnical issues refer to UK market. 

This is the only foreign forum I'm following, but here I see many non UK forumers and I follow various Italian forums.  But I've read of damper issues only here and, I was a bit surprised because it was a very old defect that happened in Australia ( and probably also in Japan ) on some Japan manufactured Yaris.

Due these engines come from the same factory, if a similar defect is present in European engines it should impact other markets.

If Toyota decided to import RHD cars from Japan instead than manufacture them in Europe, the issue could be more easily explained.

2 hours ago, Martin C W said:

Have a look on line, it's a recall in Australia, wrong area application of lubricant, causes crankshaft damper slip when driven hard, I have noticed a few cases in the UK, but no recall for us.

Yes but it was caused by a production problem and involved some cars manufactured in 2020 in a Japan factory.

It's really strange that reappers now on 2021 manufactured cars.

[yaris67]

Dealer phoned today regarding update for replacement part for my Launch Edition. Will not be arriving this weekend either and has been pushed back to possibly nearer the end of March🤬. Dealer is hopeful part may arrive sooner but I doubt that will be the case. Dealer did go back to Toyota and hire car return has been extended. Toyota fail to respond to direct communications. When eventually fixed, I will be seriously considering changing vehicle and moving away from Toyota after 26 years. I moved from Fiat to Toyota due to reliability issues but never had this experience with Fiat and, until now, Toyota either! Even after repair eventually done, I am not sure I will be confident fault doesn't return and, quite frankly, it's downright dangerous to lose virtually all engine power, steering and braking power. I feel that Toyota should at least be responding with an explanation for fault and reasons for delay in obtaining part. 

[RickyC]

So your dealer has confirmed that you had an issue with the damper?

[Mikw]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:59 PM, Martin C W said:

Have a look on line, it's a recall in Australia, wrong area application of lubricant, causes crankshaft damper slip when driven hard, I have noticed a few cases in the UK, but no recall for us.

I always drive gently so hopefully this won't happen.

[FROSTYBALLS]

7 hours ago, yaris67 said:

I feel that Toyota should at least be responding with an explanation for fault and reasons for delay in obtaining part. 

Presumably you've contacted Toyota GB customer services have raised the query with them.

As regards the delay in receiving the part, parts supplies are being affected across numbers of manufacturers due to several reasons including the effect of Covid on suppliers and semi conductor shortages. Also think manufacturers are prioritising the supply of parts towards continuing production.

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, Mikw said:

I always drive gently so hopefully this won't happen.

I drive the opposite of gently  so likely it would have happened to me by now if it was common to all Mk4s. (Touch wood, rabbits foot, throw salt etc.)

I suspect it's only certain batches - Maybe a new employee who wasn't there when the factory got a telling off from the bigwigs for their poor quality standards back in the day  

[TonyHSD]

I think to get your clutch damper to slip and trigger hybrid system malfunction you need to push the car to the limit plus hit a pothole or something to make your driving wheels loose grip while transmission under heavy load ., at least that what happens to me once and reading the posts about Yaris issues, not long ago again I was pushing my old lady to keep up with traffic and I run over some deep cracks on the road surface and the ice went very high rpm unexpectedly however I had reacted quickly and eased the accelerator so no system malfunction this time. Now  I know that my hybrid not only doesn’t like to go over potholes when you are slowing down but also when accelerate.

Do you know that when you hit a pothole and trigger abs pump the car looses braking power almost completely and to regain brakes again you need to completely release brake pedal and push again to make your brakes work as normal, something not very natural for most drivers and also can put you into a dangerous situation. That applies for gen 3 hybrids  (Prius, Auris, Prius+). As far as I am aware Toyota recalled early 2010 models but I found the same behaviour in later cars up to MY2015. 👍 New hybrids owners can experiment for themselves to see how their cars react in similar situations to be prepared. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cyker]

I haven't hit too many potholes, but regularly traverse speed humps and cushions, and I have wheel-spun the Mk4 many many times off the line already (In Eco mode to boot  ), although the traction/stability control usually sorts that out pretty quick.

The loss of braking force when the ABS engages is normal, at least in my experience - Every Yaris I've driven did the same thing (Often leading to some very scary moments!  )

It's logical if you think about it - When you're braking normally, you're getting the full force of the brakes, but if the ABS kicks in it's pulsing the brakes on and off rapidly, and every time it pulses off that is lost braking time!

I was pretty good at gauging it through pedal feel in my previous cars so I could brake very firmly just below the lock-up threshold, but it's one of the few things I really dislike about the Mk4 as the brake-by-wire gives absolutely no feedback (Or I should say false feedback), and I've had a few close encounters in the beginning as I misjudged my braking force and distance and had the AEB kick in  (Partly why I'm reluctant to turn it off even tho' I get so many false-positives from it!)

 

[scar]

Holy thread resurrection,

This may be a final post for myself. 

The Yaris has gone ( it was my wife's car ), it would have gone much earlier but its replacement was delayed in manufacturing.

A number of faults with the Yaris soured the ownership experience. The inability of the service department at Stonearce should be an alarm call for Toyota UK. 

My wife was seriously under impressed with the quality of some of the interior materials. The wear in the time she owned it does not bode well for long term ownership. 

However she loved the performance and the economy. 

So ends decades of Toyota ownership. It started with a Carina for me and a MR2 for Maureen. It ended this weekend.

I wish all forums members well, drive safe.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Best wishes.

[Cyker]

Oh no! Today I had the Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer problem!  

I'd just finished overtaking a moped that was doing about 40mph on an  unlit NSL road, and as I got back in lane and lifted off the accelerator the car started bonging at me and started cycling through all the same messages previously reported, the HOLD light was flashing (I assume indicating he brake hold wasn't working).

The funny thing is the driveability of the car seemed pretty unaffected; Steering was still as over-assisted as ever, engine wasn't restricting power, just couldn't see anything on the multifunction display any more because of all the warning messages.

Luckily I was not to far from a services so pulled in, parked up, turned the car off and on again; Made a new angry beep but aside from that and the Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer message that won't sod off, the car still worked fine; EPB worked, brake hold worked, steering worked etc.. Resumed journey home, gently at first, but then tested it a bit more, joined the motorway, bit more aggressive acceleration, still drove like normal.

Going to see if I can get the dealer to look at it tomorrow but not too hopeful as they're always rammed on saturday and given they turned me away when I had a puncture and told me to book it in I'm not optimistic they'll even look at it...!

 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Oh no! Today I had the Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer problem!  

I'd just finished overtaking a moped that was doing about 40mph on an  unlit NSL road, and as I got back in lane and lifted off the accelerator the car started bonging at me and started cycling through all the same messages previously reported, the HOLD light was flashing (I assume indicating he brake hold wasn't working).

The funny thing is the driveability of the car seemed pretty unaffected; Steering was still as over-assisted as ever, engine wasn't restricting power, just couldn't see anything on the multifunction display any more because of all the warning messages.

Luckily I was not to far from a services so pulled in, parked up, turned the car off and on again; Made a new angry beep but aside from that and the Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer message that won't sod off, the car still worked fine; EPB worked, brake hold worked, steering worked etc.. Resumed journey home, gently at first, but then tested it a bit more, joined the motorway, bit more aggressive acceleration, still drove like normal.

Going to see if I can get the dealer to look at it tomorrow but not too hopeful as they're always rammed on saturday and given they turned me away when I had a puncture and told me to book it in I'm not optimistic they'll even look at it...!

 

Sorry to hear great happened to you too. Was it under hard acceleration  when happened and did you hit a pothole by any chance, any wheel spins or reviving up engine too high rpm? 
I’f dealer too busy to run diagnostic, a Carista one or similar can help and show you the codes so you been prepared and know what to expect to hear from ten dealer. You may just need to run diagnostic and clear the codes and you may never  have the trouble again. 

[Cyker]

It's all a bit weird - You'd have expected it to happen during the hard acceleration but it didn't until I was past the moped and slowing back down again! The acceleration was fairly hard, but it's not like I haven't been accelerating like that all the time previously; If anything this was relatively gentle for me  

I did plug my crappy bargain basement ODB2 scanner in but, weirdly, it doesn't show any codes and there's no check engine light lit or anything like that.

The car drives normally - If it wasn't for the fact it keeps flashing up "Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer" on the MID you wouldn't even know there'd been a problem!

No idea what triggered it as I've driven it far more harshly in both acceleration and braking when going for e.g. a weekend hoon; Didn't feel any slip or wheelspin at any point, road relatively smooth. Don't think it slipped on any leaves or hit any potholes or anything like that.

Will just have to see if the dealer will help!

I at least want it to be logged on their system anyway in case something does develop!

 

[TonyHSD]

33 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's all a bit weird - You'd have expected it to happen during the hard acceleration but it didn't until I was past the moped and slowing back down again! The acceleration was fairly hard, but it's not like I haven't been accelerating like that all the time previously; If anything this was relatively gentle for me  

I did plug my crappy bargain basement ODB2 scanner in but, weirdly, it doesn't show any codes and there's no check engine light lit or anything like that.

The car drives normally - If it wasn't for the fact it keeps flashing up "Hybrid System Malfunction Visit Your Dealer" on the MID you wouldn't even know there'd been a problem!

No idea what triggered it as I've driven it far more harshly in both acceleration and braking when going for e.g. a weekend hoon; Didn't feel any slip or wheelspin at any point, road relatively smooth. Don't think it slipped on any leaves or hit any potholes or anything like that.

Will just have to see if the dealer will help!

I at least want it to be logged on their system anyway in case something does develop!

 

At least your car didn’t stop, and you were brave to try it in the motorway. When that happened to me the car lost all power and went into N , very scary experience and I was so afraid after that to drive for weeks in case happens again. After clearing the codes I had no issues at all., now almost a year since then. Why these cars throw these codes and goes into fail safe mode don’t know. I think in my case the engine over revved the rear of the power source mg1 and mg2 and the car did that to protect itself from destroying the transmission. I hit a bad pothole while at full throttle highest rpm . 

[Cyker]

Yeah that "Oh sh**" moment is not fun! One of the worst parts is not knowing what caused it so you don't know what to do (or not do!) to avoid it next time!

A funny thing was on the way back, the car felt weird, somehow more eager than before the 'malfunction', and I realized when I got home it was because the car had reset back from Eco into Normal mode  

[Cyker]

I'm back and the car isn't dead  

Amazingly they did take a quick look at it so props to Jemca for squeezing me in at such short notice; I think it helped that I got there early!

They could see the error on the display, but no problems so they just reset it and said to book it in if it happens again. Hopefully I'll have the same results as the rest of you and not have a problem now it's been reset!

I did some testing on the way home, because apparently I can't resist poking the bear, and I was able to make the car do something a bit weird which in my gut feels like the precursor to the problem happening:

Under normal driving, no problem, and under full acceleration no problem, but there seems to be a spot at hard but not-quite-full acceleration where I can hear something suddenly spinning up, like it's surging, and then makes a nasty but quiet grinding noise. It's a bit like if you're accelerating up a hill and suddenly dip the clutch and the engine suddenly surges - That's not what's literally happening but it's that sort of sense of what it felt like - but I don't think it's the engine as the RPMs didn't suddenly jump up, but were still climbing steadily. (Unless the HUD display was lying!)

I don't know what could do this as the HSD is all interconnected and there shouldn't be anything that can freely spin suddenly like that. The only thing I can think of right now is if the PSD gears are friction fit to MG1 and the ICE and they are slipping on their shafts under certain loads/conditions/acceleration profiles??

 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I'm back and the car isn't dead  

Amazingly they did take a quick look at it so props to Jemca for squeezing me in at such short notice; I think it helped that I got there early!

They could see the error on the display, but no problems so they just reset it and said to book it in if it happens again. Hopefully I'll have the same results as the rest of you and not have a problem now it's been reset!

I did some testing on the way home, because apparently I can't resist poking the bear, and I was able to make the car do something a bit weird which in my gut feels like the precursor to the problem happening:

Under normal driving, no problem, and under full acceleration no problem, but there seems to be a spot at hard but not-quite-full acceleration where I can hear something suddenly spinning up, like it's surging, and then makes a nasty but quiet grinding noise. It's a bit like if you're accelerating up a hill and suddenly dip the clutch and the engine suddenly surges - That's not what's literally happening but it's that sort of sense of what it felt like - but I don't think it's the engine as the RPMs didn't suddenly jump up, but were still climbing steadily. (Unless the HUD display was lying!)

I don't know what could do this as the HSD is all interconnected and there shouldn't be anything that can freely spin suddenly like that. The only thing I can think of right now is if the PSD gears are friction fit to MG1 and the ICE and they are slipping on their shafts under certain loads/conditions/acceleration profiles??

 

Did you asked the For the fault codes , or do you have them to share? Did the service people mentioned anything that could have upset the system and to trigger the faults? Damper clutch perhaps? 

[Cyker]

Annoyingly no, they said maybe something about a power module and said the only error suggested I may have tried to force it into Park while driving (I did not) but otherwise nothing conclusive or useful.

No mention about the damper plate (If it is a clutch that might be what feels like slipping, but from what I've seen it's more like a spring-damped flex plate, like you get in slushboxes, so it shouldn't be able to slip like that...)

[TonyHSD]

52 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Annoyingly no, they said maybe something about a power module and said the only error suggested I may have tried to force it into Park while driving (I did not) but otherwise nothing conclusive or useful.

No mention about the damper plate (If it is a clutch that might be what feels like slipping, but from what I've seen it's more like a spring-damped flex plate, like you get in slushboxes, so it shouldn't be able to slip like that...)

I am not sure about gen 3 and above but gen 2 has actual friction discs that can slip in excessive torque been transmitted. I think newer models might be similar because if it’s only the damper springs which they break apart from too much abuse or hard engine knocking the whole part can gets easily destroyed.
Those damper springs goes first obviously, but they work all the time engine starts and shuts off.  
In certain situations after slightly quicker acceleration for a short time and immediately quick slow down almost to 0mph the engine shuts off with clunk, that clunk represent exactly that those springs got fully loaded., but can the whole assembly start slipping after that point or as you have described I can only say for sure if it’s got exactly same design as gen 2, unfortunately I haven’t seen any of yet. This the reason why I never recommend fast acceleration from standstill, smooth start then transition to ice +ev then floor it after everything has been working together. 
Here is the gen 2 version. 👍

 

[flash22]

Just read moo's post sound like a damper issue, it fits with it happening under a higher load, stick it in B down a 1:4 hill that should break it

edit, it was JAP built cars for the AU market

https://www.vehiclerecalls.gov.au/recalls/rec-001318

also (tsb - 22SMD-092)

https://ec.europa.eu/safety-gate-alerts/screen/webReport/alertDetail/10006953

Recall Launch Date	2022-11-14
Recall No	R/2022/287
Make	TOYOTA
Model	YARIS
Recall Model Information	Yaris HEV
Manufacturer Ref	XGG60 ? 22SMD-092
VIN start	VNKKBAC300A000693
VIN end	VNKKBAC3X0A050162
Build start	07/07/2020
Build end	13/11/2020
Vehicle numbers	6857

[Cyker]

Reading back into the thread I think you might be right about the damper; That surge I was feeling was very much like a slipping clutch sensation. It reminded me of when our Verso needed a new clutch and the engine would spin up without the car moving any faster if I suddenly floored the accelerator, except in this case, as the engine revs didn't change it may have been MG1 that was spinning up!

My current operating theory is the damper did slip and MG1 spun past its maximum rated RPM for a second, which triggered all the warnings.

I don't think it's exactly the same issue as the Aussie one, as I did some full-bore starts from the lights and up a hill and it's still absolutely fine with them. I also haven't been able to duplicate the weird surging/slippy sensation by doing a not-quite-full-acceleration like I did earlier, but for now I'm going to stop poking the bear and go back to normal driving, albeit slightly more restrained than I did before   

I reported it to Toyota UK by e-mail, and they predictably said they'd never heard of this before, but at least I know it's on record now!

 

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Reading back into the thread I think you might be right about the damper; That surge I was feeling was very much like a slipping clutch sensation. It reminded me of when our Verso needed a new clutch and the engine would spin up without the car moving any faster if I suddenly floored the accelerator, except in this case, as the engine revs didn't change it may have been MG1 that was spinning up!

My current operating theory is the damper did slip and MG1 spun past its maximum rated RPM for a second, which triggered all the warnings.

I don't think it's exactly the same issue as the Aussie one, as I did some full-bore starts from the lights and up a hill and it's still absolutely fine with them. I also haven't been able to duplicate the weird surging/slippy sensation by doing a not-quite-full-acceleration like I did earlier, but for now I'm going to stop poking the bear and go back to normal driving, albeit slightly more restrained than I did before   

I reported it to Toyota UK by e-mail, and they predictably said they'd never heard of this before, but at least I know it's on record now!

 

This is most likely what had happened, I believe same had happened in my case too. Just a slip for a fraction of the second and the car has had detected it. This clutch if it keep slipping it will burn out the friction material and it will start smelling exactly like worn out clutch. That was once a case in Prius gen 3 and if I remember correct was from uk and reported in Prius section by a member. Toyota replaced the damper with new and the car was good as new. The owner has reported lack of acceleration and burning smell. 

[Nath12345]

Hi

 

Does anyone know about Yaris "Hybrid System Malfunction"? For 2020 model.

 

I live in Lancashire and drove to see my family in Cheshire (about 65 miles away) on Christmas Day with no incident.  I started to drive back home around 17:30 on that evening.  I was about 10 minutes into my journey on a dual carriageway (has a central reservation, 70mph speed limit) and just before you get to the M6 motorway which I would have travelled on.

 

There were two lanes on the dual carriageway, and there was no lighting.  I went to overtake a car in the left lane which was doing around 55mph.  As soon as I pulled right and put my foot down on the accelerator, I received alarms/lights and a complete loss of power.  The error displayed was Hybrid System Malfunction - Contact Dealer.  The car did not even go into limp/failsafe mode, literally I pressed the accelerator, and nothing happened.  So, I started naturally decreasing speed in the fast lane, due to no acceleration availability, and there were a couple of cars in the left lane.  I put on my hazards and indicated left all whilst slowing down due to lack of power.  I struggled to make it over to the grass verge as I had to wait for the cars to get past.  Over the next half an hour the hazards and lights seemed to dim at times, it appears the Battery was losing power.

I bought the car just under 6 months ago from an official Toyota dealer, and called the AA breakdown number provided for Toyota Assistance which was provided as part of the package when I bought the car.  AA dispatched a breakdown guy, who recovered my car all the way to the Dealer and then took me home.  I got home around 21:30. 

 

The AA Breakdown Summary was, "We have arranged for a recovery of your vehicle.Vehicle cut out in fast lane of the dual carriageway on the junction with the m6. No electrics and road in total darkness,Recovered straight into dealer as ongoing issue. Engine Oil Level Ok. Coolant Level Ok."

 

I find it extremely concerning that this has happened as it was very dangerous and there could have been a crash or worse.  If I had of stopped completely in the fast lane, an approaching car could have crashed into me, as I say there were no lights, so the visibility was not great.  I also struggled to get over to the grass verge as there were cars already in the slow lane - again a crash could easily have happened.

 

I am also concerned because I received a Recall letter from Toyota about a month ago, the symptoms of which appear to be exactly what happened to me.  I took my car into Toyota on Thu 22nd Dec to have the required Software Update, a few days before this incident happened.

 

I believe the recall was along the lines of "Due to an improper programme g of hybrid system vehicle might not enter a failsafe driving mode. There is a possibility that the vehicle will not enter a failsafe driving mode if a temporary slip occurs in the input damper of the hybrid transaxle."

 

Since I had the car there have been no problems and I have been very happy with the car, so I am very concerned that an issue like this has occurred after a software update which appears to be supposed to fix the very issue that happened to me on Christmas Day.  The car has only done under 4000 miles as well.

 

This problem essentially ruined my Christmas.  It was a very stressful and scary situation and made worse by the consequent inconvenience due to having no car.

I feel as though I have lost complete confidence in the car now.  I chose Toyota because they are a known reliable brand. and this is a car less than two years old, hasn't even required its first MOT yet.

 

Thanks.

[Cyker]

My sympathies - It is scary when it happens as you don't know wtf is going on or what to do!

A similar thing happened to me; It does seem related to the damper slipping, although mine happened *after* a hard overtake when I lifted off.

I was a bit luckier than you as the car drove fine, even with all the scary warnings and beeping flashing up on the dash, and I was able to get to a services (Still at 70mph!  ) to turn the car off and on again, which reset the messages leaving only the hybrid system malfunction, but the car still drove fine.

Got it to the dealer the next day (A saturday!), half expecting to be turned away, but they were unusually accommodating (So a rare props to Jemca for that!) and had a quick look to make sure nothing was actually broken and reset the warning, telling me if it happened again to book it in for a proper inspection.

Quite a few people have reported similar - I suspect Frosty might merge this post with the main thread about this very subject - so it's not just you.

Mine seems to have been okay after that; It's been suggested I may have hit a bump or something which, in conjunction with the high acceleration and deceleration, made the damper slip enough to trigger the fault warning.

I suspect the damper needs to be tightened or the car programmed to reduce its torque input...

 

Hopefully the dealer can investigate, and also verify that the update was performed correctly - There has been at least one person here who had their ECUs reset to factory by accident while diagnosing something else, essentially undoing all the updates, which then caused a load of other problems!

[Max_Headroom]

2 hours ago, Nath12345 said:

I believe the recall was along the lines of "Due to an improper programme g of hybrid system vehicle might not enter a failsafe driving mode. There is a possibility that the vehicle will not enter a failsafe driving mode if a temporary slip occurs in the input damper of the hybrid transaxle."

Could i ask why you didn't get the recall done when why sent you the notification it clearly states this will cause a major problem should it happen to your car.