Yaris Hybrid 2020 TNGA - Hybrid System Malfunction

[Nixy]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:11 PM, TonyHSD said:

All Toyota hybrids has an actual clutch very similar to manual transmission clutch and flywheel, the difference is that it’s permanently engaged and does not disengage (disconnect) the torque from the engine. It serves the purpose of torque dampening between the electric motor and internal combustion engine, they usually last lifetime of the car but in some cases can go wrong and have their springs broken due to an engine knocking or some sore of overload, if you drive your hybrid as on rally. Here is a video explaining more. 

 

Thanks for the heads up. I had no idea about a clutch being necessary, given the CVT belt transmission. Dammit, one more thing to go wrong. 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Nixy said:

Thanks for the heads up. I had no idea about a clutch being necessary, given the CVT belt transmission. Dammit, one more thing to go wrong. 

There is no belt in the Toyota HSD - it's what they call an e-CVT.

In fact the HSD has less mechanical parts than a manual transmission (it's basically a sun and planet gear to couple one motor, engine and wheels, then a second motor, some reduction gearing and the differential). The complexity is in the electronics.

There are no parts that routinely slip or slide it's all just done with spin. Which is probably why they've proved to be so reliable.

[exim]

Big motorway trip next week. This has me concerned. It seems dealers will only look into the issue after an incident.

[TonyHSD]

There is nothing to worry to all Yaris hybrid owners. These clutches as Mike said are not like conventional clutches, day act more like a rubber damper, just more complex with additional slip action when needed to protect the system from self destruction. That’s all. Everything is all permanently connected, no need to worry about anything. On The latest Yaris most likely been some defective parts fitted, and seems like Toyota recognised the problem and does warranty repair where needed. 👍

[RickyC]

Correct.

But this is the first time I read of an European Yaris IV with a defective clutch.  Is a France made car or is it imported from Japan ?

[Nixy]

22 hours ago, MikeSh said:

There is no belt in the Toyota HSD - it's what they call an e-CVT.

In fact the HSD has less mechanical parts than a manual transmission (it's basically a sun and planet gear to couple one motor, engine and wheels, then a second motor, some reduction gearing and the differential). The complexity is in the electronics.

There are no parts that routinely slip or slide it's all just done with spin. Which is probably why they've proved to be so reliable.

Hey thanks again. Do u work for Toyota? How do you know so much about the 4th gen yaris hsd? 

[TonyHSD]

25 minutes ago, Nixy said:

Hey thanks again. Do u work for Toyota? How do you know so much about the 4th gen yaris hsd? 

Here it’s a video that shows how Toyota hybrids system works, but there are plenty more in YouTube if you are interested. 

This channel has really good one, technical stuff for deeper and better understanding. 

it’s for Prius /Corolla but they are very similar to Yaris. 👍

[RickyC]

Oh yes.  Professor Kelly is a fantastic teacher. 

The last Yaris uses pratically the same PSD design of Prius 4 or last Rav. 

In USA Toyota sells with Yaris name the same car that in Europe is sold a Mazda 2 ( there are just small facelift differences but is the same car )

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, Nixy said:

Hey thanks again. Do u work for Toyota? How do you know so much about the 4th gen yaris hsd? 

As @TonyHSD says - YouTube. I'm a retired engineer, so when I got our hybrid I went looking for info on how it works.

The second one Tony links is from Weber and I watched several of his about each of the generations. They are deep dives but give a good understanding.

It can be a little hard to get your head around but the system is just so elegant. Big kudos to the people who came up with it.

[Yugguy1970]

Yep it's why when I wanted a hybrid I came to Toyota.  

[Yugguy1970]

Also for any issue you read about on the net remember noone ever posts an "I've had no problems" thread.  There are millions of Yaris owners out there with trouble free cars.

[flash22]

You have to remember the hybrid system has been around for 20+ years, so has evolved the very early prius did have a push belt drive, but it was soon discarded

the mk4 is a completely new drive drain - 3 pot 1.5 and the newest version of the HSD (gen 6 or 7 ?) with a Lithium based Battery pack

with anything that is new to the market, the early adopters are the test subjects, and there will be issues

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, flash22 said:

very early prius did have a push belt drive,

That was a multi-chain 'belt' wasn't it? Not a CVT belt.

Transferred the drive from the engine/motors line across the casing to the final drive reduction gears aiui.

[FROSTYBALLS]

20 hours ago, RickyC said:

In USA Toyota sells with Yaris name the same car that in Europe is sold a Mazda 2

Production ceased in June 2020, and the Yaris was discontinued during the 2020 model year. The smallest Toyota sold in the US is now the Corolla.

[flash22]

My mind was wondering 🙃

Yes it Had a final drive Chain, later ones have a direct drive (helical cut gears)

A conventional CVT uses a push belt (metal belts with a center element

 

[Nixy]

23 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Here it’s a video that shows how Toyota hybrids system works, but there are plenty more in YouTube if you are interested. 

This channel has really good one, technical stuff for deeper and better understanding. 

it’s for Prius /Corolla but they are very similar to Yaris. 👍

Thanks again. First video was awesome at understanding, in a jiffy, how the toyota ice and electric motors work in unison. The 2nd video lost me completely! 

 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Nixy said:

Thanks again. First video was awesome at understanding, in a jiffy, how the toyota ice and electric motors work in unison. The 2nd video lost me completely! 

 

You are welcome.
I was sceptical about Toyota hybrids when I first tried their cars with Prius gen 2 and Lexus gs450h back in 2007,although I liked how they drives I had no information about their system and how do they work. Then in 2012 I had a driving job with Prius gen 3, then Prius plus and after driving those for few thousand miles I was fully converted ever since. Now I am driving an old Auris hybrid from 2010, I do quite a bit of miles ever week and so far the car is excellent in all aspects., efficiency, drivability and reliability, plus it’s easy to maintain since I do most of the work by myself. So yes, if a friend or family member ask me what car should I buy now I can easily recommend two best options as long term money well spent: 

1. Buy Toyota/Lexus  hybrid, any model you like 

2. Buy an electric car- any make and model you like 

the third one is just buy the cheapest and simplest small hatchback with petrol engine and manual transmission. 👍 Happy driving everyone 🚗👌

[Gray86]

If you are after a simple explanation as to how the different components work in a hybrid system watch this 4min video: 

 

 

[Nixy]

On 8/21/2021 at 6:27 PM, TonyHSD said:

You are welcome.
I was sceptical about Toyota hybrids when I first tried their cars with Prius gen 2 and Lexus gs450h back in 2007,although I liked how they drives I had no information about their system and how do they work. Then in 2012 I had a driving job with Prius gen 3, then Prius plus and after driving those for few thousand miles I was fully converted ever since. Now I am driving an old Auris hybrid from 2010, I do quite a bit of miles ever week and so far the car is excellent in all aspects., efficiency, drivability and reliability, plus it’s easy to maintain since I do most of the work by myself. So yes, if a friend or family member ask me what car should I buy now I can easily recommend two best options as long term money well spent: 

1. Buy Toyota/Lexus  hybrid, any model you like 

2. Buy an electric car- any make and model you like 

the third one is just buy the cheapest and simplest small hatchback with petrol engine and manual transmission. 👍 Happy driving everyone 🚗👌

A quick question. If the clutch / damper fails within the warranty period, is it covered by it or charged as a consumable? 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Nixy said:

A quick question. If the clutch / damper fails within the warranty period, is it covered by it or charged as a consumable? 

Hi, 

I really don’t know as I am not a Toyota employee but this part is not consumable like brake pads or clutch in manual transmission and during normal use lasts lifetime of the car, presumably it will be covered by the manufacturer for premature failure. 

[Nixy]

Great. I do like to drive the car in a lively way, not racing of course. It feels very robust and solid. Maybe the GR genes of it!! 

[RickyC]

I hope so because it should be very expensive to replace this damper.  Maybe the damper cost is non very high but the effort to replace it is not negligible.

[Cyker]

Would definitely be a warranty thing - Should even be covered under the new Relax warranty scheme,  it's not a wearing part like Tony says, and should last the life of the engine.

Hopefully it's just some bad parts in earlier models, and newer ones will already have revised parts. With the way I drive I reckon I'd be more likely to experience the problem so as long as it doesn't happen to mine the rest of you will probably be okay  

Also shoutouts to @North Wales SXS - Like @Mikw I also got a Mk4 partly based on what I'd seen on your channel!  

[Mikw]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

Would definitely be a warranty thing - Should even be covered under the new Relax warranty scheme,  it's not a wearing part like Tony says, and should last the life of the engine.

Hopefully it's just some bad parts in earlier models, and newer ones will already have revised parts. With the way I drive I reckon I'd be more likely to experience the problem so as long as it doesn't happen to mine the rest of you will probably be okay  

Also shoutouts to @North Wales SXS - Like @Mikw I also got a Mk4 partly based on what I'd seen on your channel!  

I drive like a Grandad anyway 🙂

I've always been light on tyres and drive parts. If my tyres wear out quickly and my damper assembly fails then it's definitely a problem. Hopefully it won't happen.

I'm like "Driving Miss Daisy".  Well, maybe not quite like that, but you get the point.

Yaris Mk 4 is really easy to drive smoothly.

[RickyC]

On 6/10/2021 at 4:55 PM, TonyHSD said:

The hybrid system malfunction most likely can be as a result of failure on the electric part of the hybrid drivetrain, ev motors , battery, inverter. If your car internal combustion engine turns over and is running it’s fine even if bad fuel been supplied to it will eventually trigger engine management light and store a fault code, something with poor fuel mixture, misfire, etc. Once the bad fuel is consumed and better one filled up the car will return to normal operation. The hybrid system malfunction can also be caused by the ice when you left the car without any fuel or the engine refused to start for whatever reason is (electrical, hydro lock)..How the ecu can find out that the fuel is contaminated and stop the fuel pump for example is beyond explanation. These cars does not run a chemical tests on the fuel before injecting in into the cylinders., fill with diesel , water or alcohol and the car will still try to start and self destroy. These guys are clearly ripping you off asking for money on a brand new car with warranty. 

Unluckily the EGR Valve issue is spreading in Italy.  Is impacting also other models equipped with Dynamic Force engines ( 2.0 Liter engine of CHR / Corolla and 2.5 of RAV ) 

The answer is always the same:  EGR valve and EGR cooler damaged by Clorine contaminated fuel so not covered by warranty. 

Do you know of similar issues on petrol ( not diesel ) engines in UK ?