12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Terry10]

So I had a starting problem back in May out of the blue. Would not go into ready mode then it started to flash up a message saying turn the steering wheel each way whilst pressing the start button!! None of that made any difference whatsoever. Neighbour of mine had a jump start pack and it started. Not been a problem since.over the last 3 weeks I have done about 1200 miles and then last Friday I tried to start the car and exactly the same problem as back in May. I now have my own Nocco GB40 and that had no effect at all. Tried the neighbors jump pack and nothing. Called the AA out and the guy checked the Battery and said there was nothing wrong with it reading wise. He was totally baffled and ended up towing me to the dealers. They informed me that they couldn't look at it until 11 November but would try and fit it in if they had any cancellations. Lo and behold I had a call last Wednesday to say it was fixed and I could collect the car. The Toyota dealer has said that it was the 12 volt Battery and it had a fault in it that was playing hell with the electrics. New one fitted under warranty even though the car is 4 years old in a few weeks time. Can't knock the dealer at all for that service. Had a quick look at the new Battery and it is a sealed unit unlike the original which you could top up if required. No manufacturer name or technical details on the battery whatsoever apart from a scan bar.All that gives is safety details ect. Just wandering if it may be an upgraded battery possibly. Shall still carry my Nocco GB40 in the glove box just in case.

Terry

[Terry10]

On 10/18/2024 at 11:19 AM, Terry10 said:

So I had a starting problem back in May out of the blue. Would not go into ready mode then it started to flash up a message saying turn the steering wheel each way whilst pressing the start button!! None of that made any difference whatsoever. Neighbour of mine had a jump start pack and it started. Not been a problem since.over the last 3 weeks I have done about 1200 miles and then last Friday I tried to start the car and exactly the same problem as back in May. I now have my own Nocco GB40 and that had no effect at all. Tried the neighbors jump pack and nothing. Called the AA out and the guy checked the battery and said there was nothing wrong with it reading wise. He was totally baffled and ended up towing me to the dealers. They informed me that they couldn't look at it until 11 November but would try and fit it in if they had any cancellations. Lo and behold I had a call last Wednesday to say it was fixed and I could collect the car. The Toyota dealer has said that it was the 12 volt battery and it had a fault in it that was playing hell with the electrics. New one fitted under warranty even though the car is 4 years old in a few weeks time. Can't knock the dealer at all for that service. Had a quick look at the new battery and it is a sealed unit unlike the original which you could top up if required. No manufacturer name or technical details on the battery whatsoever apart from a scan bar.All that gives is safety details ect. Just wandering if it may be an upgraded battery possibly. Shall still carry my Nocco GB40 in the glove box just in case.

Terry

UPDATE. IT PACKED UP AGAIN.

Same issue again after 120 miles.Had it towed out to the dealers again and now officially they can't look at it till 5 November. Now starting to loose faith in the car unless they can come up with something positive this time.

Terry

[Mixstreme]

After numerous non start events, some after just 1 day, I have replaced my Battery in my Hybrid AWD Dynamic with this YUASA Car Battery YBX5100 12V 75Ah 710A     278L x 175W x 175H

Toyota dont feel a 45AH Battery is too small for a car that has gained alot of electronic weight...... and blame a 5v Dashcam......  for draining the battery........

My Auris even had a 65AH battery and NEVER once did that same Dashcam kill it or drain it.......

Solve it yourself .......

[ernieb]

Is the dash cam set for parking mode? I agree the Battery seems somewhat under powered but this seems to be the trend not only with Toyota but also other manufacturers.

If the form factor of the new Battery allows the fit and it’s the same Battery chemistry then I don’t see a problem. (Chemistry the same as the previous battery i.e., AGM, GEL, sealed, flooded cell?)

[Mixstreme]

11 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Is the dash cam set for parking mode? I agree the battery seems somewhat under powered but this seems to be the trend not only with Toyota but also other manufacturers.

If the form factor of the new battery allows the fit and it’s the same battery chemistry then I don’t see a problem. (Chemistry the same as the previous battery i.e., AGM, GEL, sealed, flooded cell?)

Yes the Dashcam is set to parking mode, the Battery is made by the same OEM supplier and fits with the removal of the small pad that spaces out the original small itsy bitsy Battery.....   

Power wise, no such thing as overkill......   The space for a Battery is limited and I would suggest 280L x 190H x 175W to be about the max size........

The higher the AH the better....    

HEADS UP...  if you have security lock selected on your head unit you will need the password to unlock it after the refit.  The dashboard will also need setting up to how you like it.........

[robo1]

1 hour ago, Mixstreme said:

After numerous non start events, some after just 1 day, I have replaced my Battery in my Hybrid AWD Dynamic with this YUASA Car Battery YBX5100 12V 75Ah 710A     278L x 175W x 175H

Toyota dont feel a 45AH battery is too small for a car that has gained alot of electronic weight...... and blame a 5v dashcam......  for draining the battery........

My Auris even had a 65AH battery and NEVER once did that same dashcam kill it or drain it.......

Solve it yourself .......

Tony. Thanks for the informative post. I have pondered whether to upgrade the Battery but was put off as to whether the new Battery had its venting port in the same position as the original Battery ? Is it just a case of pulling off the old battery then pushing on the new. 

[Mixstreme]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:18 PM, robo1 said:

Tony. Thanks for the informative post. I have pondered whether to upgrade the battery but was put off as to whether the new battery had its venting port in the same position as the original battery ? Is it just a case of pulling off the old battery then pushing on the new. 

Hi, Yes the Battery is just a straight swap although, if your security lock is on the head unit (you set a password) then you will need that password to unlock the head unit.  

Most batteries come with dual venting ports (remove after transit), so it was easy to plug in the vent hose plug. 

The car itself does not care as long as its got power....... 

Regards

Tony

[robo1]

Thanks 

[Nick72]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:03 PM, Mixstreme said:

After numerous non start events, some after just 1 day, I have replaced my Battery in my Hybrid AWD Dynamic with this YUASA Car Battery YBX5100 12V 75Ah 710A     278L x 175W x 175H

Toyota dont feel a 45AH battery is too small for a car that has gained alot of electronic weight...... and blame a 5v dashcam......  for draining the battery........

My Auris even had a 65AH battery and NEVER once did that same dashcam kill it or drain it.......

Solve it yourself .......

Have you had the DCM software update? Apparently this was not limited to PHEVs but other RAVs and even Yaris. 

That was the cause of my problems a couple of years ago. 

[Mixstreme]

14 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Have you had the DCM software update? Apparently this was not limited to PHEVs but other RAVs and even Yaris. 

That was the cause of my problems a couple of years ago. 

Apparently I have had it and the DCM functions correctly, Thats the Dealers words.... 

I cant really say there is an unknown drain, just insufficient Amp hours from that oem costing brainwave.....

Electric powergate, locks, lights, computer and that dastardly 5v Dashcam, you dont get much wiggle room before its below an acceptable voltage.   Mainly why I wanted a high CCA even though this cars engine does not start from the 12v Battery.

To be fair, Im thinking this will cure my issues and just in time for the cold cold spell....   

Always got my booster pack in boot anyways, but will update if any issues, Im confident this will solve it.

[Mixstreme]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:18 PM, robo1 said:

Tony. Thanks for the informative post. I have pondered whether to upgrade the battery but was put off as to whether the new battery had its venting port in the same position as the original battery ? Is it just a case of pulling off the old battery then pushing on the new. 

I will be posting some pics of the swap we are doing tomorrow with the same YBX5100 12V 75Ah 710A  278L x 175W x x175H   This will show you the in situ comparision with OEM  and the full swap. 

Any type 096 sealed wet Battery - Positive Front Right terminal with good CCA and HIGH AH will do better than the OEM

This Battery has been fitted today 278L x 175H x 175W     to another 2023 AWD dynamic. 

Car Battery EA722 Exide type 096  - 720CCA  -72Ah  Car Battery EA722 Exide 096 720A 72Ah 4Yr Warranty 278x175x175 Premium | eBay    Got a coupon and got next day delivery for £55.....

Compared to the OEM numbers as in the pic, its a no brainer and if you play it right you can cover your costs by selling you OEM (baby battery)on facebook.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, Mixstreme said:

Apparently I have had it and the DCM functions correctly, Thats the Dealers words.... 

I cant really say there is an unknown drain, just insufficient Amp hours from that oem costing brainwave.....

Electric powergate, locks, lights, computer and that dastardly 5v dashcam, you dont get much wiggle room before its below an acceptable voltage.   Mainly why I wanted a high CCA even though this cars engine does not start from the 12v battery.

To be fair, Im thinking this will cure my issues and just in time for the cold cold spell....   

Always got my booster pack in boot anyways, but will update if any issues, Im confident this will solve it.

I'd get them to double check and ask for the software version installed. You can compare that with the Sevice Bulletin. That will make them check properly. As Ive mentioned here in the forum, I had it (no problems) then didn't have it (loads of problems) then had it installed after insisting they must have removed it in a bodged set of updates for other subsystems (no problems after). 

Though I'd still welcome about another 30% 12v Battery capacity. Perhaps 100%. It always felt slightly marginal. 

I just installed a dash cam. I put it on its own pass through charge capable powerbank. Working a treat. Cig lighter when car is started charges the powerbank (16W) whilst the powerbank powers the Dashcam (under 2W). When ignition is off the powerbank alone powers the dash cam. Looking at 7 to 10 days of park mode probably. I didn't want to risk connecting it into the always on 12V. This way I avoid flattening the 12V Battery and get longer park mode or continuous recording than any other solution on the market. 

[philip42h]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:03 PM, Mixstreme said:

Toyota dont feel a 45AH battery is too small for a car that has gained alot of electronic weight...... and blame a 5v dashcam......  for draining the battery........

A RAV4 with a 45Ah Battery, and no permanently wired accessories, will 'stand' for around 20 days and then start without problems. This implies that the drain from the electronics that are permanently on is around 100mA (max).

Replace the 45Ah Battery with a 75Ah Battery and the safe standing time should increase to around 33 days. So far, so good.

Google research suggest that a Dashcam in parking mode will require 1W - 5W, maybe more. Using Nick's figure of 2W for the Dashcam would suggest that the Dashcam alone will draw 170mA, increasing the total drain to around 270mA. This increased load will reduce the safe standing time to:

• 7.2 days for a 45Ah battery, or
• 12.0 days for a 75Ah battery

I think that my sums are correct ... 😉

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

A RAV4 with a 45Ah battery, and no permanently wired accessories, will 'stand' for around 20 days and then start without problems. This implies that the drain from the electronics that are permanently on is around 100mA (max).

Replace the 45Ah battery with a 75Ah battery and the safe standing time should increase to around 33 days. So far, so good.

Google research suggest that a dashcam in parking mode will require 1W - 5W, maybe more. Using Nick's figure of 2W for the dashcam would suggest that the dashcam alone will draw 170mA, increasing the total drain to around 270mA. This increased load will reduce the safe standing time to:

• 7.2 days for a 45Ah battery, or
• 12.0 days for a 75Ah battery

I think that my sums are correct ... 😉

Close enough Philip with some rounding. And which is precisely why the DCM module not shutting down properly was flattening the Battery after a couple of days. It's probably running at 5W or more. 

So you are spot on. A Dashcam in park mode without a good shut off system (the best solutions combine time limits like 12 or 24hrs and detect 12V voltage drop as a poor measure of SOC) is going to flatten the 12V Battery within 2 to 7 days depending on power consumption in park mode. And noting it doesn't have to be completely flat for everything to go wonky (read as strained wing mirrors unfolding, inability to unlock doors, weird error messages on the dash, no start). If it's down to 15% or less I suspect there will be issues. 

Btw I've left the last R4P for as long as 4 weeks. Started first time. So the 20 days is probably a minimum or conservative figure? But, I've got the NOCO loco as back up as the 12V really is too small. 75Ah feels like a much better capacity.

I also wonder what the energy consumption is each time you use the App to recheck status? Especially if you do it a lot. 

Ultimately why I built my own park mode system with a powerbank with pass through charging. Take no chances with the tiny 12V. 

[Nick72]

What I really didn't like was why the 12V doesn't charge when plugged into your charge port. That would have made a lot of sense. 

[philip42h]

28 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

What I really didn't like was why the 12V doesn't charge when plugged into your charge port. That would have made a lot of sense. 

It is on mine ... annoying, isn't it? 😄 

[Nick72]

20 minutes ago, philip42h said:

It is on mine ... annoying, isn't it? 😄 

Yup. They may sort that on the next gen RAV. And hopefully provide some kind of remote sentry mode for the cameras. 

[Mixstreme]

I guess the reality is, my issues are the price I pay for my luxuries and tools ....

I accept the OEM Battery would probably be ample for most Scenarios and that I have clearly demanded more than the OEM can give.  Its not the OEM Battery, its me.....

I have noticed on my reset that one power greedy device has been the only thing affected by the loss of power for 23mins, whilst I casualy changed the Battery.  Only on discovering this, did I remember why it was done this way.

Necessary evils

So we have a culprit and still feel the upgrade will be even more beneficial. 

Great numbers Philip, things fell into place....

 

[Mixstreme]

On 11/17/2024 at 5:41 PM, robo1 said:

Thanks 

I have uploaded some pics with the important stuff.....

This New Battery is 278L x 175H x 175W -  The OEM is 200L x 190H x 168W (approx) with a foam spacer on the right side bottom to hold it in place.

Ive removed the spacer and clamped down the new Battery, it can not move.......   When you remove the spacer, have a look so you can see where the new Battery will sit.

it will slip FLAT into place........  

The terminals will be best held by another person or if your into diy, get a bungee and be inventive....  you want a smooth easy CLEAR path to place the battery in from front to back.

The terminals have a bracket on them that reinforce positioning so easy connection.......

Hope this helps anyone with higher demands on the battery......

 

OEM 

1) OEM battery in situ

2) New battery in situ

3) OEM battery and New battery with green circle showing the foam insert to space out the smaller OEM battery - REMOVE THIS.

4)The vent plug slips in easy, light is the key......

Edited 8 hours ago by Mixstreme
instructions

[ernieb]

Looks good.

[Mixstreme]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Looks good.

The New Yuasa Battery 75AH comes with a 5 year warranty, The Excide 72AH comes with a 4 year warranty,  more than toyota offer on the OEM 45AH.  

Living in a world of mods and extras, this 12v power upgrade just offers a little more confidence and will hopefully resolves our issues....