12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[philip42h]

21 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Is this the same for an AGM battery or would that be different?

There are plenty of different 'pictures' out there on the web. The chemistry of the AGM and wet lead acid batteries is pretty much the same but the physics, and therefore internal resistance, is slightly different. Either way they are made up from 6 cells at around 2.1v each ...

[ernieb]

Cheers, Philip. I was looking and found very similar charts. Interesting but we always tend to view the 12v voltage when it’s under some kind of load, but useful data.

[nlee]

2 hours ago, JARC1 said:

From what I can see this is a stand alone (not needing mains current to start a car) item. The CTEX although it will start a completely flat battery, does need a mains connection to work. This is fine for keeping a battery in good condition, but will not work in an emergency away from home.

What model NOCO model would be recommended for me to purchase . I presume I will be told the highest rating model so as I have no problems of not enough power.

Many thanks and Best Wishes, in anticipation of required help.  , Cheers , John

NOCO do both. The Boost is the jump starter, the Genius is the Battery charger (I think!)

For a jump starter, the cheapest GB20 is absolutely fine for a hybrid. You only need to look at the higher rates ones if you want it for other cars as well.

[ernieb]

As I already had a rechargeable Lithium Ion car starter the Genius option was good for me. 

[JARC1]

1 hour ago, nlee said:

NOCO do both. The Boost is the jump starter, the Genius is the battery charger (I think!)

For a jump starter, the cheapest GB20 is absolutely fine for a hybrid. You only need to look at the higher rates ones if you want it for other cars as well.

Also have a Jaguar 2.5 V6, which is may be why I should have a higher rated NOCO. Confirmation or not would be appreciated.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[nlee]

2 minutes ago, JARC1 said:

Also have a Jaguar 2.5 V6, which is may be why I should have a higher rated NOCO. Confirmation or not would be appreciated.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

According to the blurb, the Boost Sport (GB20) is for up to 4L petrol only. The Boost Plus (GB40) is for up to 6L petrol and 3L diesel. If on the borderline, I'd always go one up in the range. They also do a Boost XL (GB50), Boost HD (GB70) and a Boost Pro (GB150).

All the specs are here (scroll down the page to see the engine sizes). This is the US page but they are readily available on Amazon, Halfords, and others.

https://no.co/products/power/boost

[B Voros]

4 hours ago, ernieb said:

Is this the same for an AGM battery or would that be different?

Hello, it is the same.

[Derek.w]

Hi 14.4 volts is the dctodc charge voltage.     ( or alternator depending on car)

12.4 volts is the Battery voltage ehen its not receving any charge.

I sugest using bike mode as its only a small Battery this way it will have charged up to a greater ampage (than using the car mode on chargers at 3.8 amps and above).

14.7 volts used for low temp charging Battery at  +5 degrees or less (frost setting.)

15.8 volts Desulphation mode removes sulphate from plates (this is at start of charging if required)

[Rigsby]

I purchased a CTEK MSX 5.0 at the beginning of lockdown for use on both my car at the time (Jaguar) and my wife’s Mercedes, and has been a great buy.

This is the cycling chart as supplied in the manual.

 

 

[TonyFR]

Thanks to the info I get from this thread, I'm planning to buy the NOCO GB20 for possible jump starting. Does anyone have any idea how often it itself will need charging if, as will probably be my case, it just sits in the car not being used? Putting it another way, will checking its charge every month be sufficient? I don't often check my insurance policies - maybe I should do!!

[ernieb]

1 minute ago, TonyFR said:

Thanks to the info I get from this thread, I'm planning to buy the NOCO GB20 for possible jump starting. Does anyone have any idea how often it itself will need charging if, as will probably be my case, it just sits in the car not being used? Putting it another way, will checking its charge every month be sufficient? I don't often check my insurance policies - maybe I should do!!

If it’s got Lithium Ion batteries, I’d not worry too much. I’d not charged mine for a good few months and it easily started my neighbours 2ltr automatic, first go one very snowy cold winter day.  (I’ve not got the NOCO) 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, TonyFR said:

Putting it another way, will checking its charge every month be sufficient?

Oh, yes ... TBH you really ought to check / recharge at least once a year (if not using it) ... 😉

[ROCKETRON]

Yes I agree if not using it much it can certainly go for a year without a charge and will certainly be able to get a hybrid to “ready’ .

[TonyFR]

If you want to charge the 12v Battery, the Manual says "If recharging with the 12v Battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable". But smart chargers, or so I understand, allow you not to have to do that. Is Toyota being cautious, given that with older chargers removing the ground is necessary?

[ernieb]

I’ve connected my NOCO smart charger directly to the Battery terminals in the boot with no issues. (With the charger set to AGM)

[philip42h]

11 hours ago, TonyFR said:

If you want to charge the 12v battery, the Manual says "If recharging with the 12v battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable". But smart chargers, or so I understand, allow you not to have to do that. Is Toyota being cautious, given that with older chargers removing the ground is necessary?

I've been trying to think why and can only imagine that they are advising that you isolate the car's "sensitive" electronics from the charging system - which makes sense. Somebody may know better ...

But they are perfectly happy for you to use the car's inbuilt smart charger (at 14.5v) with the Battery still connected, and I really can't see any problem with using a modern smart charger (at 14.5v for standard batteries or 14.8v on the AGM setting). I'd think at least twice before using a smart charger on the 16.5v 'repair' setting with the Battery connected (and then not risk it!).

I happily use my NOCO smart charger connected via the "jump start point" under the bonnet - it's just too much faff trying to get access to the Battery in the boot.

[IanML]

That quite right.  The "early" chargers were crude and produced very "dirty" waveforms, which are quite acceptable to batteries, but sudden death to modern semiconductor electronics.  They had no automatic voltage control, so could overcharge the Battery if left on too long.  Another factor is that those chargers had little or no overload protection except for a fuse, so quite a hazard by today's standards.  They're usually contained in a cheap pressed metal box, with a crude meter on the front, and the leads had croc clips with no insulation on the handles.  If you have one, please recycle it.

I agree that modern chargers such as CTEK and NOCO are quite safe to use without disconnecting the Battery.

[ernieb]

I’ve connected a short permanent adapter cable to the Battery which enables me to just ‘plug in’ the cable from the NOCO charger. CTEK have a similar adapter, really easy and simple to connect if needed.

[Rigsby]

When I purchased a CTEK MSX 5.0 for use with my Jaguar, their technical department told me to connect the positive lead directly to the positive post on the Battery and the negative lead to an earth point on the body.

The stressed not to connect the negative lead directly onto the Battery, that way it was safe to leave the Battery connected and in situ.

[Rigsby]

7 hours ago, ernieb said:

I’ve connected a short permanent adapter cable to the battery which enables me to just ‘plug in’ the cable from the NOCO charger. CTEK have a similar adapter, really easy and simple to connect if needed.

My Battery was located under the spare wheel in the boot of my Jaguar, so I used a CTEK panel mounted extension socket in the boot to save emptying the boot / spare wheel etc.

It worked very well.

 

[IanML]

2 hours ago, Rigsby said:

When I purchased a CTEK MSX 5.0 for use with my Jaguar, their technical department told me to connect the positive lead directly to the positive post on the battery and the negative lead to an earth point on the body.

The stressed not to connect the negative lead directly onto the battery, that way it was safe to leave the battery connected and in situ.

That advice is to minimise the very small risk that a spark could arise when connecting, and if the connection point were near the Battery, AND the Battery had been gassing (hydrogen) it could produce an explosion.  However, if the bonnet is raised, the hydrogen, being lighter than air, would escape upwards, plus why would you be starting to charge a Battery which was gassing, i.e. already subject to a high charging voltage?  The scenario is unconvincing.

Anyway, if you fit the adapter cable, the spark would be at the cable end, not at the battery, so not an issue.

[Dala]

2 hours ago, Rigsby said:

When I purchased a CTEK MSX 5.0 for use with my Jaguar, their technical department told me to connect the positive lead directly to the positive post on the battery and the negative lead to an earth point on the body.

The stressed not to connect the negative lead directly onto the battery, that way it was safe to leave the battery connected and in situ.

What is the difference between attaching the end of the cable to the Battery or to the frame about 30cm next to it?
From the negative end of the car Battery, a cable also leads to the chassis.
Why make it so complicated?
The ends of the cable are adapted for connection to the car Battery.

[ernieb]

In my case the Battery in the boot is behind a cover and I have to remove stuff to get access. If I had not fitted the connector adapter I’d have to use big crocodile clips, messy. The adapter means I can connect the charger and it’s the securely connected as it has a latch. Then I can power the charger so no chance of a spark and a connection that has integrity.

[Rigsby]

13 hours ago, Dala said:

What is the difference between attaching the end of the cable to the battery or to the frame about 30cm next to it?
From the negative end of the car battery, a cable also leads to the chassis.
Why make it so complicated?
The ends of the cable are adapted for connection to the car battery.

I’m not an electronics engineer or designer so I’m not in a position to argue the point with CTEK technical support (who probably know a little bit more than me on the subject) , all I know is that car electronics have become very complex over the years, so I was happy to take their advice and share it?

 

[Dala]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:05 AM, ernieb said:

I’ve connected my NOCO smart charger directly to the battery terminals in the boot with no issues. (With the charger set to AGM)

I have it wired the same way.
Directly to the Battery terminals.
I recharge with a solar panel or a smart charger set to AGM.
They installed the connection cable for me directly at Toyota.