Brake Pads & Rotors - OEM vs Others

[Kojac]

Brakes - looking to explore options/recommendations on:

A) Brake pads - OEM vs alternative suggestions.

B) Brake rotors - OEM vs alternative suggestions.

Car is 10 years old & has 63,000 on the clock.
 

I feel it will soon be time to change the pads (at a minimum) & possibly - might get the rotors done at the same time as the car will be up on the lift anyway.

This post is intended to be an exploration of the topic - focusing on technical aspects.

K

[TonyHSD]

If you need replacement at that mileage it will be very likely because of rust, you can check dealer oem for prices, either way you go oem or aftermarket the parts itself not so important as you can’t go wrong really with those unless you buy fake ones sold for original or cheap nasty parts. More importantly here is to clean and lubricate all sliding pins, callipers, and change the brake fluid flush, the system . I use myself EBC Ultimax pads as these are very good and grippy, discs Blueprint or Brembo or anything actually., good to be with anti corrosion paint as Toyota hybrids suffer from rusty brakes since the car slows down with its e motor and brakes does do much only clips before you stop completely or if you are hard on the brakes. 👍

[Infiniti]

1 hour ago, Kojac said:

Brakes - looking to explore options/recommendations on:

A) Brake pads - OEM vs alternative suggestions.

B) Brake rotors - OEM vs alternative suggestions.

Car is 10 years old & has 63,000 on the clock.
 

I feel it will soon be time to change the pads (at a minimum) & possibly - might get the rotors done at the same time as the car will be up on the lift anyway.

This post is intended to be an exploration of the topic - focusing on technical aspects.

K

Just a tip, until tomorrow there is a huge sale at Eurocarparts for brake components (I'm literally just having to order some now!) Should have been £61 for a set of Brembo pads for the rear of my SR180, due to the discount code WISHLIST99 I have got them for £30. They do often have sale on for these, but I'm not sure how long that specific discount code will work!

I agree with TonyHSD, essentially any brand will be good, as long as you buy them from a reputable place, or are incredibly careful in eBay. From memory, the more expensive pads tend to ware a little faster due to being made of slightly softer material (Someone please correct me if I am wrong), however they do tend to be quieter!

Personally I have gone with Brembo for the front and back on mine, one because it's being a bit brand-snobby, and two because I managed to get ridiculous discounts on them! However the two brands I would feel most comfortable recommending is Pagid and Brembo. But like I said above, as long as they are from a reputable company, I wouldn't worry too much about a performance difference!

I hope this helps!

[Billing]

I don't know what you want, but on my 07 1.6 (non hybrid) I have:

Zimmermann Sport 590.2802.52 discs up front
Zimmermann Sport 590.2804.20 discs in rear
EBC Greenstuff DP21948 up front
EBC Greenstuff DP21949 in rear

Wonderful stuff. And EBC is English and I had to wait a long time to get them from England so that might be easier for you. 

[TonyHSD]

Very important whoever buys EBC brake pads for hybrid cars only to pick Ultimax series as these are only suitable for hybrids , the other coloured series are specifically made for sport type of driving and does not perform well when cold, Toyota hybrids brakes are mostly cold in normal use even going downhill. Auris hybrid also uses two different type brakes systems, you need to know which one is your car before order. 👍

[Kojac]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Very important whoever buys EBC brake pads for hybrid cars only to pick Ultimax series as these are only suitable for hybrids , the other coloured series are specifically made for sport type of driving and does not perform well when cold, Toyota hybrids brakes are mostly cold in normal use even going downhill. Auris hybrid also uses two different type brakes systems, you need to know which one is your car before order. 👍

Tony - it's insight like this that is pute gold. Can you expand on this - and how I would ascertain which brake system I have on my vehicle.

[TonyHSD]

7 hours ago, Kojac said:

Tony - it's insight like this that is pute gold. Can you expand on this - and how I would ascertain which brake system I have on my vehicle.

If your car is T-spirit with 17” wheels you have the larger disc same as RAV4 and Prius plus, if you have 15” wheels you have smaller ones from Prius . There are some exceptions where T4 models comes with smaller discs and larger 17” wheels, when you look for parts can  use  vin number. 
This pads are exclusive to the larger brake disc: Advics front system 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301778142944

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291597929694

Akebono rear and larger wheels on T- spirit trim. 
 

 

[Corolla2004]

If it helps, my 2011 Auris hybrid has 17" wheels & Advics brakes. These are the relevant Toyota part numbers:

Front disks   43512-42050      296mm dia                                     (Textar  92168803)
Front pads    04465-42180   T04465-YZZDY   w 146.5  ht 56.8  (Textar   2433701)

Rear discs  42431 02190   259mm dia
Rear pads   04466 12150

When I replaced my rear pads & discs I found I could get genuine Toyota parts at good prices from Toyota dealers on eBay.
 

[flash22]

iirc the OEM is TMD Friction - so thats Textar, Mintex, Pagid, Don and Nisshinbo

I like the compound of Mintex pads as they are not as hard as the Toyota ones and don't dust up as much

oem

42431 02190 £90 a pair, less discount

04466 12150 £43 a set, less discount

Mintex - £18 for the pads, £45 for the discs  (can be found cheaper)

[mrpj]

I changed front pads and discs for a neighbour, a couple of years ago. They were Textar pads (made in France) and no maker's i/d on the discs which were made in Italy.

I got what I thought was a good deal, on evilbay, from a Toyota dealer. I think the four pads and two discs were around £75 delivered! It's possibly sometimes worth keeping an eye on prices there.

Genuine Toyota 0W20 can be had for a comparitively good price too (5 litre). In fact the last 5 litre I bought was cheaper than ECP's Triple QX 0W20 at the time.

[Kojac]

Question:

At what remaining depth, do Toyota 'suggest' changing:

A) Pads front

B) Pads rear

& also..

C) Rotors front

D) Rotors rear 

I'm guessing there are two sets of advisory?

1) RECOMMENDED change depth (best practice)

and then

2) BARE minimum

Q: I am seeking help with finding out what the "BARE minimum" for A-D for my specific vehicle (in first post) are.

(If the "RECOMMENDED change depth" for A-D is also available - it'd help many others on the forum too).

[Kojac]

Anyone 

No one?

[Stivino]

If your pads have squeelers on them, they'll let you know when they are worn to the point that they need changed.

The discs might have the tolerances stamped on them.

[TonyHSD]

Front discs thickness 26mm minimum thickness 24.5mm

Rear discs thickness 10mm minimum thickness 9mm 

Very tight tolerance, if there are any deep lips or a lot of rust on them can easily fail you Mot but all depends of the garage, plus they never measure that. Pads can go as low as 3mm but you have squealers as mentioned and you hear them squealing when car moves and stop squealing when you press the brakes. 

[AisinW]

Here what my old front disc and pads vs new from Zimmermann and Aisin.   The Aisin pads has the highest grade GG instead of GF from Brembo, TRW, or Bosch.  Aisin is the parent company of Advics but  I believe Advics pads is still better. It cost about $80 in USA or $200 in Europe. Do not know why.  I believe it is wear and tear parts, it will not void the 10 years/100 000 miles warranty from Toyota. 

 

[AisinW]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:36 PM, Corolla2004 said:

If it helps, my 2011 Auris hybrid has 17" wheels & Advics brakes. These are the relevant Toyota part numbers:

Front disks   43512-42050      296mm dia                                     (Textar  92168803)
Front pads    04465-42180   T04465-YZZDY   w 146.5  ht 56.8  (Textar   2433701)

Rear discs  42431 02190   259mm dia
Rear pads   04466 12150

When I replaced my rear pads & discs I found I could get genuine Toyota parts at good prices from Toyota dealers on Ebay.
 

The front pads has YZZ part number = aftermarket with Toyota box.  The original one is made by Advics, it cost close to £170  a set.  The YZZ part number is much cheaper but decent.  I prefer Aisin pads because it is cheaper and higher friction coefficient GG than other aftermarket brands and probably better than Toyota YZZ part.

[FROSTYBALLS]

21 minutes ago, AisinW said:

it will not void the 10 years/100 000 miles warranty from Toyota. 

Brake pads aren't covered under the Relax warranty.

[Kojac]

I've just been to the local council mot garage - the tech there suggested - Rotors seem okay - pads need changing all round.

Went to toyota - spoke to a 7 year toyota tech (Jamie) in the yard - he had a quick look and suggested the same.

I'm asking the community here - should rotors and pads always be changed at the same time?

If pads can be renewed without changing rotors - are there any issues or negatives I need to be aware of?

 

[TonyHSD]

16 minutes ago, Kojac said:

I've just been to the local council mot garage - the tech there suggested - Rotors seem okay - pads need changing all round.

Went to toyota - spoke to a 7 year toyota tech (Jamie) in the yard - he had a quick look and suggested the same.

I'm asking the community here - should rotors and pads always be changed at the same time?

If pads can be renewed without changing rotors - are there any issues or negatives I need to be aware of?

 

This will depend if the discs has small lip on them or have rust best to change them too, if they look good, no lips and no rust or been scorched just put a new pads in, clean and lube the slider pins are very important tasks. In general when new pads are fitted to an old discs it takes a bit longer for the bed in process, but that’s not a deal breaker. Conclusion: yes you can change only pads. 👍

[Stivino]

31 minutes ago, Kojac said:

Should rotors and pads always be changed at the same time?

No.

[Avalon]

36 minutes ago, Kojac said:

I've just been to the local council mot garage - the tech there suggested - Rotors seem okay - pads need changing all round.

Went to toyota - spoke to a 7 year toyota tech (Jamie) in the yard - he had a quick look and suggested the same.

I'm asking the community here - should rotors and pads always be changed at the same time?

If pads can be renewed without changing rotors - are there any issues or negatives I need to be aware of?

 

Assuming the rotors aren’t damaged with either ridges or a lip that’s in the swept area, you can normally do two sets of pads to a set of discs. Here’s where I will differ with some previous advice offered: I wouldn’t use EBC brake pads on a car if they paid me. I rate them for bikes, but every single time I have used EBC pads the fade, dust and lifespan has disappointed me., I have been disappointed. Literally the only positive thing I can say is the break-in coating cleans up the disk surface nicely. TMD manufacture Mintex, Padgid and several other brands in Scotland, personal experience suggests in this sort of application Mintex (Padgid is an ECP licensed brand in the UK) are a better buy than EBC.

Also ECP are the SCS of the car parts world, they always have a sale on and they are rarely good value as they jack up the prices accordingly. Yesterday I happened to be near the local one and with running the AC more often the pollen filter odour was becoming noticeable. Bosch £23.49 with upto 45% off, comes out £14.09 which is odd, as they’re only £8.92 delivered or about £7 from my local factor, cheapest I have managed to pay in last few years was £6.14, but less than half ECP’s ‘sale’ price.

[AisinW]

In Europe we have EcR90 standard on pads and rotors. You will never go really wrong.   For the pads, the OEM supplier brands Advics/Aisin and Bosch are the best. They have exact same shape and design.  At 70 000 miles, my front pads are close to 6mm thick and almost 99% rotors thickness. The problem was the corrosion on the edges and I felt vibration after long downhill in Alps and uneven wear on pads. So, I replace both pads and rotors. I believe the rotors has some uneven density of pads material embeded in it. 

The vibration is gone once the rotor is cooling down by driving in B mode for a few minutes instead of D.  Yes, we should put the gear in B mode in long downhill anyway. The brake usually starts fading when the brake is hot but should not vibrate. 

 

I won't change the rotors if they are good and no vibrations. Just get the pads.  

[Kojac]

On 7/8/2021 at 4:47 PM, Avalon said:

Assuming the rotors aren’t damaged with either ridges or a lip that’s in the swept area, you can normally do two sets of pads to a set of discs. Here’s where I will differ with some previous advice offered: I wouldn’t use EBC brake pads on a car if they paid me. I rate them for bikes, but every single time I have used EBC pads the fade, dust and lifespan has disappointed me., I have been disappointed. Literally the only positive thing I can say is the break-in coating cleans up the disk surface nicely. TMD manufacture Mintex, Padgid and several other brands in Scotland, personal experience suggests in this sort of application Mintex (Padgid is an ECP licensed brand in the UK) are a better buy than EBC.

Also ECP are the SCS of the car parts world, they always have a sale on and they are rarely good value as they jack up the prices accordingly. Yesterday I happened to be near the local one and with running the AC more often the pollen filter odour was becoming noticeable. Bosch £23.49 with upto 45% off, comes out £14.09 which is odd, as they’re only £8.92 delivered or about £7 from my local factor, cheapest I have managed to pay in last few years was £6.14, but less than half ECP’s ‘sale’ price.

EBC brakes are a conundrum. Some swear by them. 

Respected members of the forum advise that for a hybrid, if you chose EBC - only go for the ULTRAMAX pads as they are made to OE (This is NOT the same as OEM) standard.

Other respected members swear by EBC "GREEN STUFF" pads only. This is despite a multitude of reports about excess brake dust (the pads have an organic based formulation), and reduced performance.

There is a third aspect. Some toyota dealerships are fitting OPTIMAX range (fixed priced) pads - which are NOT THE SAME as OE toyota pads. Usually from TMD. They are cheaper for a reason.

Multiple members of the forum report Textar or Pagid pads being sourced from ECP at certain "toyota" dealerships - and being fitted to their cars. 

PartsKing has helped the forum understand that there are multiple solutions that any dealership can provide.

There are the ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC toyota pads (expensive unless you go through forum discount process) or there are "Fixed Price" alternatives - which are UNlikely to meet the same standards as OE pads.

I'm asking senior members of the forum to chime in and present their views and opinions on this.
 

It is likely some of my understanding  on this topic requires a 'course correction' so I'm open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of this - in a way that opens up the topic - so we can all learn something.

K.

 

 

[Yugguy1970]

These are not sports cars.  Any OEM quality parts will do.  I have used drilled Brembo disks on cars before but I used them for their look, they provided no extra braking power.  

You should be able to get at least two, if not three pad changes in before needing a disc change.

All IMO of course 😁

[AisinW]

32 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

These are not sports cars.  Any OEM quality parts will do.  I have used drilled Brembo disks on cars before but I used them for their look, they provided no extra braking power.  

You should be able to get at least two, if not three pad changes in before needing a disc change.

All IMO of course 😁

I agree with the drilled rotors, they are gimmick and cosmetics but really reduce the durability of the rotors.  Plain rotors with coating is the best solution for any street cars.  The main problems with the rotors are corrosion and uneven wear from many various reasons.  As long as it is high quality steel, proper thickness and weight, and coated/painted, they are worth upgrade.  The OEM Advics rotors are usually painted too now.   The rust from the outside and inner diameters of the rotors creep up below the surface and caused rust and bulging. It will cause the pads wear unevenly on the edges and potentially cause vibration when the rotors are hot.   

I only replace the rotors if it has uneven wear, below minimum thickness, or bad corrosions. Normal rust on the surface are fine. I always check the weight of the new rotors. They must be the same or heavier than the OEM.  Cheaper rotors sometimes has less density and lighter.