UK E10 petrol introduction date.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Department of Transport has confirmed that E10 unleaded petrol will be introduced in the UK from September 2021.

Super unleaded will continue to be E5.

Toyota Europe information on which cars cannot use E10 is as follows:

Toyota; Avensis 2,0 L (1AZ-FSE) made between July 2000 and October 2008;  Avensis 2,4 L (2AZ-FSE) made between June 2003 and October 2008.

Lexus; IS250 2,5 L V6 made between August 2005 and September 2007; GS300 3,0 L V6 made between January 2005 and September 2007; LS460 4,6 L V8 made between August 2006 and September 2007.

All vehicles mentioned above that are not compatible with E10 can however use E5 (5% bioethanol).

[Rosgoe]

I’ve always used super unleaded or Shell v power in both the auris which I had for 5 years and the new corolla as it contains extra detergents not to worried about the extra costs as I only do 4000 miles a year or less.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota Europe advice on B7/E10 compatibility:

Can I use biofuel in my car_tcm-11-577377.pdf

[WazWii]

The thing that worries me is that the margin of safety in terms of the max ethanol has reduced. Please bear with me and I will explain.

Before the introduction of E10, maximum 5% ethanol was allowed. As post-2011 cars can accept up to 10% ethanol there was therefore a margin of safety of 5% (5+5).

However I note now that there is no margin of safety as the ethanol mixture is maxed out at 10% and 10% is the maximum post-2011 cars can accept.

Why do I raise this issue? Because what if there has been an error in terms of ethanol mixture/amount at the local crude refinery? If so anything above 10% (even a small amount) could lead to catastrophic vehicle damage.

I hope someone can chime in here and clear my worries up.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think there would need to be longish term exposure before you see evidence of damage.

Super unleaded will remain at E5. To counter any concerns you have, you could fill up when you get to half a tank and use super unleaded every other fill - so you should always have a mixture of E5 and E10 (or less than 10% ethanol) in your car.

[WazWii]

On 6/10/2021 at 6:27 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Think there would need to be longish term exposure before you see evidence of damage.

Super unleaded will remain at E5. To counter any concerns you have, you could fill up when you get to half a tank and use super unleaded every other fill - so you should always have a mixture of E5 and E10 (or less than 10% ethanol) in your car.

Yes and also I suppose refinery errors would not happen all the time and thus (particularly in my case as I only fill up once a month or even longer) one is not likely to come into contact with constant ethanol error prone fuel mixtures. Still it is something to think about. Hope the refineries know what they are doing! I did contact my two local ones and the oil majors (Shell, BP, Esso) on this specific issue and I was as clear as my post above regarding the initial question. And interestingly I noted none actually managed to answer my question directly. I will reply back to them but I think this speaks volumes. 

The advice you gave around E10 regular and E5 premium fuel mixing is a good one! Although it would mean more trips to the fuel station I think I can manage this as I will be doing a lot less miles on the car from now one. Also I think it is worth now and then putting some better additives into the car with premium fuel I think. Since I bought the car I have not put any premium fuel in - I think now that it is nearly five years old I will start to do this. I intend on keeping the car for at least another five years before I trade in for an electric TOYOTA.  

[2toyos]

Just now, FROSTYBALLS

Department of Transport has confirmed that E10 unleaded petrol will be introduced in the UK from September 2021.

Super unleaded will continue to be E5.

Toyota Europe information on which cars cannot use E10 is as follows:

Toyota; Avensis 2,0 L (1AZ-FSE) made between July 2000 and October 2008;  Avensis 2,4 L (2AZ-FSE) made between June 2003 and October 2008.

Lexus; IS250 2,5 L V6 made between August 2005 and September 2007; GS300 3,0 L V6 made between January 2005 and September 2007; LS460 4,6 L V8 made between August 2006 and September 2007.

All vehicles mentioned above that are not compatible with E10 can however use E5 (5% bioethanol).

Toyotas from 1998, i have a 1994 toyota supra, non turbo, the vvti version of the 2jz came in at 1998, but they still would of sold the original version of the engine, considering this, is mine compatible, its alittle unclear

[TonyHSD]

My close family friend from abroad has Avensis 2.0 from 2006 and he uses E10 petrol almost entirely since few years ago when the country had switched to this type of fuel and has no issues so far. It might be another few years before anything happens to the engine but I will get informed for sure. What damage can cause eventually E10 to the engine, intake valves ?

[Trewithy]

On 6/10/2021 at 6:27 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Super unleaded will remain at E5. To counter any concerns you have, you could fill up when you get to half a tank and use super unleaded every other fill - so you should always have a mixture of E5 and E10 (or less than 10% ethanol) in your car.

Why not use E5 super unleaded permanently?  Has anyone who normally uses standard 95 octane tried a couple of tank fulls of super unleaded and noticed any difference?  eg. quieter or smoother running, more mpg.  I normally use Tesco or Esso standard unleaded and have always been tempted to try Momentum 99.  I may try it when E10 is introduced.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I usually use BP or Shell, and if I fill up at Tesco, use Momentum as it has the better additives package than Tesco standard unleaded.

[Cyker]

Yeah, thankfully because we're so late to the game most problems would have already cropped up in other countries first 

IMHO the whole thing is just the kind of stupid lip-service gestures the government are always doing - It's been proven that the cleaner emissions of E5 and E10 are completely undone by the greater quantity of fuel used, and the difference is worse the more efficient the car is! There are predictions that this change will create a net increase of CO2 emissions as you will need to burn an extra tank or 2 per year over what you normally would to compensate for the lower energy!

The cynic in me sometimes wonders if this is actually a thinly veiled attempt to kill off older cars faster with the more corrosive and hygroscopic fuel...!

 

[Auris James]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

 

The cynic in me sometimes wonders if this is actually a thinly veiled attempt to kill off older cars faster with the more corrosive and hygroscopic fuel...!

 

Volvo's from 1976 are fine to run on E10.  If rubber fuel lines have been replaced must be E10 compliant. 

Fuel labelling | Good to know | Support and legal articles | Volvo Support (volvocars.com)

James.

[WazWii]

23 hours ago, Trewithy said:

Why not use E5 super unleaded permanently?

Cost. Anyone know the difference in cost between standard and premium fuel for a full fill of the tank for the second-generation (2014+) TOYOTA AYGO? Any online calculators out there?

 

22 hours ago, Cyker said:

The cynic in me sometimes wonders if this is actually a thinly veiled attempt to kill off older cars faster with the more corrosive and hygroscopic fuel...!

Yeah I was thinking this too. But most cars post-2011 can accept the fuel without any problems. So really it will be the classics that are affected and that is too small a market to make a negative contribution to climate issues. I note E5 will remain but only to about 2026? After this who knows...I have the feeling it will be renewed again for another five years beyond 2030 but after this I think the time will come when it could also be phased out. Bottom line? Petrol stations are perhaps not a business-line one should be in anymore.

[Roy124]

Digression "Bottom line? Petrol stations are perhaps not a business-line one should be in anymore." For fuel alone maybe, but for obvious reasons many are in prime sites.  In town ones have small car parks which makes them convenient as fast convenient grocery outlets. A Coop in Poole is a better shop than a Tesco Express.  They can accommodate charger stations and car Washes. The profit is in non-fuel sales 

[Trewithy]

6 hours ago, WazWii said:

Cost. Anyone know the difference in cost between standard and premium fuel for a full fill of the tank for the second-generation (2014+) TOYOTA AYGO? Any online calculators out there?

Super unleaded is 8p to 14p extra per litre depending on where you buy it.

[WazWii]

5 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Digression "Bottom line? Petrol stations are perhaps not a business-line one should be in anymore." For fuel alone maybe, but for obvious reasons many are in prime sites.  In town ones have small car parks which makes them convenient as fast convenient grocery outlets. A Coop in Poole is a better shop than a Tesco Express.  They can accommodate charger stations and car Washes. The profit is in non-fuel sales 

That is actually a great point. Maybe I was too hasty on calling that. I did think about a month ago what would happen to petrol stations and convenience store conversion seems the best bet. I don't think there will be much profit in charging via electricity but it could be accomplished as part of the daily shop whilst parked? 

Still I guess we both agree petrol and diesel fuel days are numbered. So where does that leave classic car owners. Somehow getting the fuel delivered to one's house and storing on one's house with all the risks that entails i.e. leaks, leaks into ground/ground water, insurance risks etc etc. 

[WazWii]

27 minutes ago, Trewithy said:

Super unleaded is 8p to 14p extra per litre depending on where you buy it.

So on average (if my maths are correct - don't count on it) - about £3.85 more for a full tank which is 35 Litres in capacity. 

Seems worthwhile to do now and then.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Service stations selling petrol/diesel won't disappear overnight. 

In the UK, sales of new petrol and diesel cars will cease in 2030, and sales of new hybrids will cease in 2035. Plus there will still be thousands of existing petrol, diesel and hybrid vehicles still running on our roads past 2035.

In my area Tesco Momentum is 5p per litre more than their standard unleaded.

[WazWii]

15 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Service stations selling petrol/diesel won't disappear overnight. 

In the UK, sales of new petrol and diesel cars will cease in 2030, and sales of new hybrids will cease in 2035. Plus there will still be thousands of existing petrol, diesel and hybrid vehicles still running on our roads past 2035.

In my area Tesco Momentum is 5p per litre more than their standard unleaded.

I am hoping the Government will introduce a car scrappage scheme for those who have petrol/diesel cars to convert to electric as soon as possible post 2030. I guess they will have to if they want to meet their climate commitments. 

[Catlover]

3 hours ago, WazWii said:

I am hoping the Government will introduce a car scrappage scheme for those who have petrol/diesel cars to convert to electric as soon as possible post 2030. I guess they will have to if they want to meet their climate commitments. 

OR just increase the tax on petrol and diesel so you tear your hair out in despair and buy an electirc

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, WazWii said:

I am hoping the Government will introduce a car scrappage scheme for those who have petrol/diesel cars to convert to electric as soon as possible post 2030. I guess they will have to if they want to meet their climate commitments. 

Wouldn't hold my breath - If anything they're reducing financial incentives - Hybrids no longer get any financial incentive, and the one for EV's has been reduced to the point where it's a drop in the face of the full retail cost of most EV's.

Same thing with the ULEZ - The original zone, where all the rich people live, offered financial incentives, lower rates for residents in the zone and extended sunset periods on older vehicles; The extension, that covers all the poorer areas, gets smeg-all. They haven't even publicised it widely - A lot of people are going to get a shock in October and Sadiq Khan is no doubt rubbing his hands at the though of the amount of ULEZ charges and fines he's going to get to add to his coffers.

This is nothing to do with the environment, and all about extracting more money out of people who don't make a fuss.

Most manufacturers have their own scrappage offerings at least; I was offered well over the market value for my Mk2 as scrappage when I got the Mk4, but who knows how long that will last. It's also tied to the purchase of a brand new car, and not many people are stupid enough or have the kind of money to be able to take advantage of that. I would argue that if you can afford a new car, you probably don't need such financial assistance as much as someone who can't, which is why I say all these schemes are targeted at the wrong people. Or maybe the right people...

 

[WazWii]

22 hours ago, Catlover said:

OR just increase the tax on petrol and diesel so you tear your hair out in despair and buy an electirc

Vehicle tax will do doubt be going up too? At the moment my TOYOTA AYGO is exempt due to fuel efficiency. I don't do many miles nowadays - trying to do less. I think the TOYOTA AYGO servicing is expensive from the official dealers for such a small simple car. I was considering just doing bits myself or get a cheap local independent but I think the risks are too high. Hmmm...

21 hours ago, Cyker said:

Wouldn't hold my breath - If anything they're reducing financial incentives - Hybrids no longer get any financial incentive, and the one for EV's has been reduced to the point where it's a drop in the face of the full retail cost of most EV's.

Same thing with the ULEZ - The original zone, where all the rich people live, offered financial incentives, lower rates for residents in the zone and extended sunset periods on older vehicles; The extension, that covers all the poorer areas, gets smeg-all. They haven't even publicised it widely - A lot of people are going to get a shock in October and Sadiq Khan is no doubt rubbing his hands at the though of the amount of ULEZ charges and fines he's going to get to add to his coffers.

This is nothing to do with the environment, and all about extracting more money out of people who don't make a fuss.

Most manufacturers have their own scrappage offerings at least; I was offered well over the market value for my Mk2 as scrappage when I got the Mk4, but who knows how long that will last. It's also tied to the purchase of a brand new car, and not many people are stupid enough or have the kind of money to be able to take advantage of that. I would argue that if you can afford a new car, you probably don't need such financial assistance as much as someone who can't, which is why I say all these schemes are targeted at the wrong people. Or maybe the right people...

 

It makes you think doesn't it? These climate commitments will have to be paid for and it looks the end user will get hit. I heard home electric/gas charges have a cost component that pays for these subsidies to make these new climate friendly energy solutions possible. Live no where near London/and major cities as I really cannot get on with them to understand these ULEZ charges but they frankly sound a nightmare.

Next government will come after your houses as they will state they are not energy efficient enough to put on the market etc etc. Values will drop and thousands if not tens of thousands to update them to bring them into line with energy efficiency rules. Don't want to worry anyone; this scenario is, what, at least a decade away but something to consider I think earlier than later. New-builds in UK are still well behind their European peers in terms of energy efficiency so even there you are not getting a good deal as it will be out of date within a decade. Something to ponder...

[Catlover]

2 minutes ago, WazWii said:

Vehicle tax will do doubt be going up too? At the moment my TOYOTA AYGO is exempt due to fuel efficiency. I don't do many miles nowadays - trying to do less. I think the TOYOTA AYGO servicing is expensive from the official dealers for such a small simple car. I was considering just doing bits myself or get a cheap local independent but I think the risks are too high. Hmmm.

Of course now having your Aygo serviced by Toyota at stated intervals will give you the up to 10 year Relax warranty.

[Cyker]

Well, in theory! The terms of the Relax warranty offer a lot more get-outs for the dealer than the Extended Warranties...! It'll be interesting to see how easy it is for people to claim on it... I hope we get people here, esp. with older cars, posting their experiences!

I'm sure the gearbox and AC system on the awful Mk2 I had would have been exempted somehow despite being prime warranty candidates!

One thing that is 'cool' about new builds is a lot of them seem to be getting solar panels and heat pumps as standard - A friend recently moved into one and, build quality and leasehold BS aside, he's loving the drop in his electricity bill compared to his old place! He is missing the gas tho' - Apparently you can't cook chinese food properly with a wok without a gas stove! 

 

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Well, in theory! The terms of the Relax warranty offer a lot more get-outs for the dealer than the Extended Warranties.!

I'm sure the gearbox and AC system on the awful Mk2 I had would have been exempted somehow despite being prime warranty candidates!

Did you manage to get your Mk2 gearbox and AC sorted on an extended warranty ???