Strange sound driving me insane

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

15 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, if only happens in gear and on 3-4-5 means something related to the torque transmission, higher gears transfer higher torque at lower rpm. Basically the clutch is extra loaded on those gears and less loaded on first and second. , which also points towards a fault with your clutch pack. Blueprint usually are the best alternative to the oem parts, but even so once in a while a manufacturer defective parts are not excluded of happening. , even new Toyotas goes wrong sometimes. Let’s be positive and wait to take it off the car and see what is all about. At least it’s a small car and easy to work on, imagine that job on a Audi A6🤭😶👍

Cheers Stecha, 

Small update, we used an inspection camera fed into the the gearbox yesterday from two points, one by removing the inspection cover underneath to the side of the gearbox and two via the rubber breather at the top of the gearbox, turning the clutch and viewing the pressure plate and any debris around and inside the casing we couldn't see anything untoward! Everything appears perfectly fine. No broken bolt studs or bits. 

We then proceeded to drain gearbox oil completely, no fragments found whatsoever other than the oil appears pretty dark yet its on a few weeks old, and a slight smell of burning. We refilled with a lucas transmission additive and the remainder gearbox oil to the 1.7L mark. Noise continues.

We concluded it is definitely the gearbox that is the issue and cannot be the clutch side. The rattle is coming from some bad bearings maybe. 

Our only option now is another gearbox but reconditioned this time! 

I also learnt that my front wheel bearings have gone again! Only had them replaced a couple of months ago!! The drivers side wheel is so damn noisy its like an aeroplane! So that was a waste of £160 at the first attempt. There's no pint chasing it because the mechanic who fitted the bearings that I paid him 80.00 will blame the mechanic who pressed the bearings who I paid 50.00 to who will blame the parts as being poor quality which I orderd via eBay, brand quintin & Hazel.

So here i am, scratching my head as to what to do next. Eliminating these sounds and issues is a nightmare!

[steveo3002]

think id find a new mechanic ...bearings should last 100k or so easy

dark gear oil doesnt sound good , i changed mine at around 80k and it was as clear as water , recon boxes can be a minefield too , some arent much more than jet wash and coat of paint 

what about a trip to one of the bug specialists and pay them to supply and fit a box , if its not right they have to sort it ...using different folk to fit your parts can turn ugly as theyre never to blame  

[welshviking]

16 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

think id find a new mechanic ...bearings should last 100k or so easy

dark gear oil doesnt sound good , i changed mine at around 80k and it was as clear as water , recon boxes can be a minefield too , some arent much more than jet wash and coat of paint 

what about a trip to one of the bug specialists and pay them to supply and fit a box , if its not right they have to sort it ...using different folk to fit your parts can turn ugly as theyre never to blame  

Got to agree with Steve, I changed the oil on my old Toyota Estima and then changed it again 4 years and 30k miles later. It was still a lovely cherry red colour. You really don't know what was supposed to been reconditioned on this replacement gearbox you have fitted, myself I would have gone to a garage and at least got a guarantee on the box and workmanship. 

[flash22]

You will not know it's the clutch/pressure plate until you take it apart as the issue is only under load that noise is not the type of sound you get from gears bathed in oil plus there is no debris in the oil you dropped - I would expect something if it was bearing or syncro related

As for darker oil, Did you use the correct grade ?

Wheel bearings - only ever use oem or SKF bearings

 

@welshviking Its a manual box in an aygo that uses GL-4 or SAE 75w, a slush box will not burn fluid if it's working as it should, Sam got a used low mile gearbox, IMO that's not the issue

@steveo3002 Its down to cost, what's the cost of a recon box plus clutch and fitting £900-1200 ??

 

 

 

 

[steveo3002]

makes me worry if a mechanic thought lucas oil additive would fix that 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

8 hours ago, steveo3002 said:

think id find a new mechanic ...bearings should last 100k or so easy

dark gear oil doesnt sound good , i changed mine at around 80k and it was as clear as water , recon boxes can be a minefield too , some arent much more than jet wash and coat of paint 

what about a trip to one of the bug specialists and pay them to supply and fit a box , if its not right they have to sort it ...using different folk to fit your parts can turn ugly as theyre never to blame  

I agree, bearings should last alot longer than a few months. 

Re the oil I understand that it shouldn't be black. Somethings burning it! 

Re recon gearboxes. Made some enquiries today. 2 options. Both in Leicestershire.

1. Apparently a reputable recon specialist. 250 to recon. Or 25 to just to check it first and quote.

2. A scrap yard who has 1 aygo 2008 gearbox but is honest enough to admit he does not know the mileage on it. Asking for 200. Told him my story. Reduced to 150. No warranty.

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

8 hours ago, welshviking said:

Got to agree with Steve, I changed the oil on my old Toyota Estima and then changed it again 4 years and 30k miles later. It was still a lovely cherry red colour. You really don't know what was supposed to been reconditioned on this replacement gearbox you have fitted, myself I would have gone to a garage and at least got a guarantee on the box and workmanship. 

Valid point. Considering how much I've spent and intemd to spend again I could have gone to a pro with warranty

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

5 hours ago, flash22 said:

You will not know it's the clutch/pressure plate until you take it apart as the issue is only under load that noise is not the type of sound you get from gears bathed in oil plus there is no debris in the oil you dropped - I would expect something if it was bearing or syncro related

As for darker oil, Did you use the correct grade ?

Wheel bearings - only ever use oem or SKF bearings

 

@welshviking Its a manual box in an aygo that uses GL-4 or SAE 75w, a slush box will not burn fluid if it's working as it should, Sam got a used low mile gearbox, IMO that's not the issue

@steveo3002 Its down to cost, what's the cost of a recon box plus clutch and fitting £900-1200 ??

 

 

 

 

Hi

Yes used the correct gear oil.

I'm uncertain which route to take re the gearbox, recon or try another used one. Definitely can't afford a supply and fit at 900 to 1200

[flash22]

As others have said take it apart and inspect then you can work out your options

[Stivino]

What did you do with the gearbox you took out?

[steveo3002]

does the 250 recon place fit them and offer warrenty?

google for reviews , as i said many engine /gearbox refurb places are nothing short of scammers that clean them up and repaint them , so worth asking around before paying up 

would be unlucky to get a 2nd faulty gearbox , have you heard of that small cars r us place?  they deal in these cars (not that i have used them )

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Update

Just dropped the gearbox as we speak.

Pressure plate seems fine. Nothing broken.

Clutch plate as new.

No debris in the oil once filtered. Totally clean. I take my comment back re the oil being black. Its still golden yellow as you pour it but collectively it looks dark. And does not smell burnt!

Currently looking at the release spring and bearing. It seems the release spring seems to be coming loose. I'm wondering if its that whether its the bearing making that clank sound.

I'm being advised to swap the blueprint clutch for a lukas and test it again

[Stivino]

Luk has always been a good name in clutches. 

What did you do with the original gearbox? 

[flash22]

Do you have the part No. for that blueprint clutch, also check that the arm/bearing fork isn't bent

any pic of the clutch and pressure plate ?

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

8 hours ago, Stivino said:

Luk has always been a good name in clutches. 

What did you do with the original gearbox? 

Hi

I still have the original gear box.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

8 hours ago, flash22 said:

Do you have the part No. for that blueprint clutch, also check that the arm/bearing fork isn't bent

any pic of the clutch and pressure plate ?

 

Hi.

After a long days work, and an luk clutch installed, the sound persists, upon first start up in 5th gear on axles it took a couple of minutes to return, those 2 minutes were a sigh of relief before it hit me again.

Fork didnt appear bent, my next plan is to get the old gear box reconditioned next week, that has more of a bearing sound fault, whereas this replacement is the one with more of a knock as in my video.

I just wana sleep. Pics attached.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

[Stivino]

33 minutes ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

Hi

I still have the original gear box.

Don't just let anyone "recondition" it as not everyone is good at it.

i.e. I quite liked doing gearboxes but I used to avoid back axles but one of the guys I worked with preferred doing axles to gearboxes.

I wouldn't let anyone near it that isn't familiar with it. 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

5 hours ago, Stivino said:

Don't just let anyone "recondition" it as not everyone is good at it.

i.e. I quite liked doing gearboxes but I used to avoid back axles but one of the guys I worked with preferred doing axles to gearboxes.

I wouldn't let anyone near it that isn't familiar with it. 

Morning Stivino,

Hi.

I have no experience re gearbox companies but this particular company in Leicester specialise in recons, and appear to have good Google feedback and sounds friendly and reassuring over the phone. 

I'm just so weary about such a service as one can't actually see inside the box as to whats been done. I now have trust issues!

https://leicester-transmissions-limited.business.site/

I'm wondering whether I should give them both boxes to look at. They charge 25.00 to diagnose a box. As mentioned previously the old box sounds whiney..possible bearing issue which they quoted 250.00 for new bearings. The replacement box has a knocking sound...possibly the diff! Unsure how much that would cost.

I need to decide!

[flash22]

Make sure the clutch pedal and cable are adjusted correctly

http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/INF12216_GB.pdf

 

[steveo3002]

does seem worth putting both boxes in and asking them to judge which is the best one to keep 

and make sure theres warrenty on paper that suits yours needs....chances are if its wrong they wont pay to remove it and refit it 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Cheers for the advice guys.

We were just discussing, the original box we noticed has been opened previously because the sealant around it was red and now black.

 

Whereas the replacement gearbox seal is still the original red but has the nasty knock.

 

I-we feel the original box is the best bet. 

 

Hmmm

[Stivino]

If I was going to have one reconditioned, it would be the original. 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Update

Hi All

Gearbox recon guy rang us this morning 

Said the diff has a chunk out of it and a few bearings need recon...confirmed box is knackered and unrepairable 

So thats that. That was the original box. He offered to look at the replacement on the car now but that sounds even worse eventhough its still driveable.

Not sure what to do now...

Rang several breakers in Leicester...nobody has a gearbox instock...except 1 and he doesn't know the mileage on it nor year other than its tested and works.

Other option is eBay...Again!

Both further risks. Total spend so far is 500!