Strange sound driving me insane

[Stivino]

Give him the gearbox that's in the car, you'll need to take it out at some time in any case.  If possible, and if he's any good, he might be able to make a good one out of the two.

[Catlover]

Worth a try Stephen.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

21 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Give him the gearbox that's in the car, you'll need to take it out at some time in any case.  If possible, and if he's any good, he might be able to make a good one out of the two.

I did think that!

[Stivino]

You should talk to him about it first, I suppose. 

[steveo3002]

all you do is trust them to do the right thing

my thoughts is the orig box failed once...so swarf/metal going around all the time it was failing , then it was repaired (im guessing badly) and then again more metal mixing in the oil once it failed ...so what else has it damaged 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

1 hour ago, Stivino said:

You should talk to him about it first, I suppose. 

I just did.

He said the old gearbox literally has nothing to salvage therefore its pointless attempting to combine the two. Makes sense. He said my best bet...risk another used gearbox...recons it'd be cheaper option than rebuild.

Just been to a scrappy local. Had 5 instock...still connected to the engines...150 best price...1 week warranty...no mileage known...recons hes supplied hundreds of gearboxes over the years with no complaints!  Ha ha ha. As they all say. He did come out to look at my aygo and the 1st thing he said..do not scrap it...its a very nice car...try another grarbox 1 more time!! 

So here i am...

[flash22]

Make one good one, out of the pair ??

[welshviking]

32 minutes ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

I just did.

He said the old gearbox literally has nothing to salvage therefore its pointless attempting to combine the two. Makes sense. He said my best bet...risk another used gearbox...recons it'd be cheaper option than rebuild.

Just been to a scrappy local. Had 5 instock...still connected to the engines...150 best price...1 week warranty...no mileage known...recons hes supplied hundreds of gearboxes over the years with no complaints!  Ha ha ha. As they all say. He did come out to look at my aygo and the 1st thing he said..do not scrap it...its a very nice car...try another grarbox 1 more time!! 

So here i am...

1 week warranty is an absolute joke, it may take longer than that for you to get around to fitting it. Your choice in the end Sam but with such a short warranty and no mileage known its a big gamble.  Another thing is Sam make sure 100% it is the gearbox as you don't want to spend another couple of hundred pound to find out it was something else. 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Crazy world indeed

[flash22]

Edited. I was thinking of the wrong engine

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

3 hours ago, welshviking said:

1 week warranty is an absolute joke, it may take longer than that for you to get around to fitting it. Your choice in the end Sam but with such a short warranty and no mileage known its a big gamble.  Another thing is Sam make sure 100% it is the gearbox as you don't want to spend another couple of hundred pound to find out it was something else. 

Hi

What else could it possibly be?

It's definitely coming from the gearbox.

Unless its drives haft related. Do they make any sounds?

[Catlover]

Yes, they can wear and rattle.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

44 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Yes, they can wear and rattle.

Is there a way of testing them?

My head is spinning with the stress.

Put it this way, with the front wheels on axles, in 5th gear or any gear, puttong the front wheels in to rotation, you can hear the rattle. 

However, if you stop one of the wheels from rotating, say the drivers side wheel, the rattle n noise dissappear! Same if I do the passenger wheel.

So what does that tell us guys?

P.s

On this last attempt at the weekend, I dont know why I felt in my heart that it was drive shaft related, but looking at them I couldn't see how because there isn't much to them! Unless the shaft bit at the ends that go into the gearbox either side are worn and wobbling around.

The head scratching continues

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

[Catlover]

Inside those rubber boots are joints. The wheels go up and down with suspension but the engines remains steady, so there has to be joints at the wheel end and the inboard end. The boots have grease in, if ever those boots have been split and the grease flung out then road dirt can replace it and wear the joints. You may be able to test them by holding either side of the joint and try turning the shaft, very easy to do if the unit was in position, bit more difficult while it is in pieces. 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

Inside those rubber boots are joints. The wheels go up and down with suspension but the engines remains steady, so there has to be joints at the wheel end and the inboard end. The boots have grease in, if ever those boots have been split and the grease flung out then road dirt can replace it and wear the joints. You may be able to test them by holding either side of the joint and try turning the shaft, very easy to do if the unit was in position, bit more difficult while it is in pieces. 

Hmmm

Cheers for the insight...thats the cv joints you're referring to. 

They make a knocking sound when turning left right or sometimes over bumps etc.

I doubt the cv ends are my issue 

If anything it could be the shafts once inserted into the gearbox or maybe how the gearbox powers them to rotate that maybe creating that rattle!

Who knows!

[Catlover]

Yes, they are called cv joints,  cv=constant velocity.

[flash22]

The inner CV joint is 3 bearings that slide in and out of the cup - the outer CV tend to click and crunch under full lock, inners knock and grind and rumble, A unbalanced drive shaft will knock out bearings (wheel and diff) due to vibration

The sound is rotational and is only present when the car is in gear, it's an external type sound as well (not gears bathed in oil)

with it on axle stands, put it in 5th and stop one wheel at a time, or while in gear lightly apply the brake

 

 

As the Aygo has unequal length driveshafts, the longer, drivers side one will take more punishment from the torque or twisting force

pop the boot off the inner drive shaft and inspect the only thing that holds the shaft in to the cup that goes in the gearbox is that rubber boot

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

The inner CV joint is 3 bearings that slide in and out of the cup - the outer CV tend to click and crunch under full lock, inners knock and grind and rumble, A unbalanced drive shaft will knock out bearings (wheel and diff) due to vibration

The sound is rotational and is only present when the car is in gear, it's an external type sound as well (not gears bathed in oil)

with it on axle stands, put it in 5th and stop one wheel at a time, or while in gear lightly apply the brake

 

 

As the Aygo has unequal length driveshafts, the longer, drivers side one will take more punishment from the torque or twisting force

pop the boot off the inner drive shaft and inspect the only thing that holds the shaft in to the cup that goes in the gearbox is that rubber boot

Cheers flash22, 

Now I'm worried, is it unbalanced cv's that could be knocking out my bearings and diff etc?

I could ruin my new box in future!

There's no sound from cv's when turning etc, only when I'm doing the 5th gear test on axles looking at the drive shaft rotating I felt that it wasn't rolling straight ish...bit wobbly, maybe its normal.

Sent the scrappy guy a video I put up on this forum re the 2nd box...asked me to go back today so that he can have a look for himself!

Picked up my 1st box from the recon guy too today...in pieces. He pointed out parts that were chipped. One wheel had previously been grinded down by someone. Crazy

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

[flash22]

The only way is to inspect them, or you could just remove the drive shafts leaving the cups in the gearbox, then see if you still have noise BUT, you get the same results by stopping each wheel while up in the air

lets rule out what is not.............

Fluid is clean with no debris or glitter

Clutch has been swapped

Original gearbox failure was the diff/bearings

 

Its just one of those jobs you need to see it car to find the issue, a mechanics stethoscope will help you pinpoint the sound

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

7 hours ago, flash22 said:

The only way is to inspect them, or you could just remove the drive shafts leaving the cups in the gearbox, then see if you still have noise BUT, you get the same results by stopping each wheel while up in the air

lets rule out what is not.............

Fluid is clean with no debris or glitter

Clutch has been swapped

Original gearbox failure was the diff/bearings

 

Its just one of those jobs you need to see it car to find the issue, a mechanics stethoscope will help you pinpoint the sound

Cheers,

Had it inspected by an independent mechanic today, ruled put the drive shafts as you stated earlier straight away and pointed at the gearbox, but he said that I could keep driving it till it dies, its not dangerous, just annoying to have to hear daily, its the 3rd 4th and 5th gears in particular that have the issue.

I've seen another box online, 35k on the clock, 100% feedback, with 90 day warranty, at 165.00....im going to sleep on it tonight.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Just to add, took pics of the damaged parts of the old gearbox...sure you'll agree for such small damage to cause big sounds!!

[flash22]

It must be the diff then on your second box

your pictures show 4th, 5th are damaged as well as the 4th, 5th driven gear and final drive on the output shaft

Looking at the bearing the rollers are pitted what usually a sign of the lack of fluid/heat

 

Its just bad luck that you got another gearbox with issues

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

2 hours ago, flash22 said:

It must be the diff then on your second box

your pictures show 4th, 5th are damaged as well as the 4th, 5th driven gear and final drive on the output shaft

Looking at the bearing the rollers are pitted what usually a sign of the lack of fluid/heat

 

Its just bad luck that you got another gearbox with issues

Interesting knowledge, think you might be the man for my rebuild job in future! 

Should I keep these parts flash22?

And the current box on the car?

Maybe for a future rebuild in my new shed 1 day!

But as we speak, I've just purchased another box, fingers crossed so damn hard that this is the one, I'd be happy to get a couple of years out of it, im so nervous.

This salvage yard has no negative feedback, accumulate over 2000+ a month, and has 35k on it so they say, it just stood out for me, paid 160...cant wait to fit it next weekend though.

Any tips this time? I think new gear oil is a definite. Should I go dealer route? 16.00 a litre!!!