Speaker upgrade

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

wattage ratings are often over exaggerated , but not much concern when using low power , its not the output its what power they can accept from an amp , again head unit power will be exagerated and not many that put out a genuine constant 25 watts or more (look at rms figures not max)

Even worse for exaggeration is the term "music power" which is the peak power with only one channel driven - so it has no meaning in the real world where we don't listen to mono!

Just a case of "specmanship" (being able to claim the biggest number) - which younger members may know better as "top trumps".

[MCjensen]

On 3/8/2021 at 8:24 PM, flash22 said:

Alpine SXV1025s are good for the money match them with SXE1725s for the doors, If not go with comps like alpine SXE1750s mount the tweeters in place of the 4" they will require a bit of wiring

Thanks to everyone here, I'm certainly learning a lot about Speakers.  Staying with the original pioneer HU for now, I guess my final decision comes down to:               

1) whether to go with with a 16.5 component system with tweeters, like the 16.5 Alpine SXE1750s that have good specs at rms-45/dB-90/depth-46mm,  (I'm assuming the included tweeters will fit on the metal plate like the original tweeters)  

2) or whether to go with a total coaxial system like the Alpine SXV1025s for the dash and the Alpine SXE1725s for the doors that have good specs at rms-40/dB-92/depth-46mm

3) or whether to go with a total coaxial system like the Hertz Dieci DCX 100.3 10 cm at rms-30w/-92dB/depth 43,5mm for the dash along with the Hertz Dieci DCX 170.3 for the doors that have good specs at rms-50/dB-92/depth-45mm

4) or whether to go with new tweeters for the dash along with the Alpine SXE1725s or the  Hertz Dieci DCX 170.3 coaxial speakers for the doors.

I  appreciate your comments or any suggestions or recommendations on which of these choices is the best way to go with my original HU ?   The costs are about the same. 

 

[flash22]

Go with option 1 and consider sound deadening the front doors

2, 3 and 4 are a step backwards

 

re. Spec's - Peak power is the theoretical max input/output, RMS (Route Mean Square) is the true rating of and input or output

outputs are usually rated as peak power, RMS rule of thumb is 50-60% of peak power, if its no name Chinese tat make that 20-35% of peak power

[steveo3002]

id pick hertz over alpine 

how about these ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hertz-UNO-K-165-6-5-16-5cm-2-Way-Car-Van-Door-Component-Speakers-75w-RMS-Pair/333103859246?epid=24002993631&hash=item4d8e89862e:g:0YwAAOSwEbxcfpd6

[Puglet]

As ever with ICE you pays ya money, you say your sticking with standard HU for now, but maybe think about should you swap it out to a decent aftermarket HU in future. I ran Alpine Speakers front and rear off the standard headunit for many years, but our 107 only had front dash Speakers as standard, so easy improvement.

Gaining a spare aftermarket HU changed things up a bit, even though I said I wouldn't, but I still kept things a bit restrained compared to previous cars!

[MCjensen]

1 hour ago, steveo3002 said:

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hertz-UNO-K-165-6-5-16-5cm-2-Way-Car-Van-Door-Component-Speakers-75w-RMS-Pair/333103859246?epid=24002993631&hash=item4d8e89862e:g:0YwAAOSwEbxcfpd6

They look nice, only problem with this model according to Hertz, is the depth is 6.3cm                                                                                                              https://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/car-audio-systems-uno-k165/

Though I could go with the Hertz DSK170, component system   rms-70/dB-93.5/depth-4.5 to 5cm                                                              https://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HERTZ_UNO_K170_Tech_Sheet_16C.pdf

 

 

[MCjensen]

37 minutes ago, Puglet said:

As ever with ICE you pays ya money, you say your sticking with standard HU for now, but maybe think about should you swap it out to a decent aftermarket HU in future. I ran Alpine speakers front and rear off the standard headunit for many years, but our 107 only had front dash speakers as standard, so easy improvement.

After I put in the new aftermarket speaker system, if the sound still doesn't sound right, I can put in an aftermarket pioneer HU, that I pulled out of my Fiat, which had replaced the Fiat's original HU, and made it sound so much better even with the original 15w Speakers. 

[MCjensen]

2 hours ago, flash22 said:

Go with option 1 and consider sound deadening the front doors

2, 3 and 4 are a step backwards

Thanks, thats the option I'm leaning towards. 

[steveo3002]

towards the end of the comment section he mentions 9cm deep?  although i cannot promise its true 

[flash22]

1 hour ago, steveo3002 said:

towards the end of the comment section he mentions 9cm deep?  although i cannot promise its true 

It depends on the window location, imho 45-55mm is going to be the max, 90mm is more than likely the total depth of the door

looked at some other specs 58mm seem to be a common aygo size

 

[Puglet]

That later model door card looks to have 'bulge' where the door speaker fits so you could possibly go deeper, mine was a totally flat door card not having previous door Speakers, so my 50mm max depth is based on that, I did think about fitting a spacer, but the Speakers I got had proper grills which take up bit of room, so would been pushing it.

[MCjensen]

39 minutes ago, Puglet said:

That later model door card looks to have 'bulge' where the door speaker fits so you could possibly go deeper, mine was a totally flat door card not having previous door speakers, so my 50mm max depth is based on that, I did think about fitting a spacer, but the speakers I got had proper grills which take up bit of room, so would been pushing it.

There is a piece of foam glued to the bottom of the original door speaker's magnet,  that extends about 2-3cm, so I probably could go to a total speaker depth of 6-7cm. Though to be safe I will stick with 45mm to 55m.

[steveo3002]

another alternative would be fit the biggest Speakers you can in the rear shelf , maybe 6x9"  you could brace a used shelf with mdf or make one and cover it 

they would be the biggest improvement for the money, more bass than the doors would provide  , and option to amp them later if you wanted , and youre not cutting into the car so it can be swapped to standard easily 

[MCjensen]

11 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

another alternative would be fit the biggest speakers you can in the rear shelf , maybe 6x9"  you could brace a used shelf with mdf or make one and cover it 

Here in DK, I saw someone is selling a brand new Hertz Sub-box,  DS25" 10" for half price.  Don't know if it would fit in the rear, or even how to get wires to it.

[steveo3002]

very easy to pop up the carpet along the sides to run the wires , measure first though as the boot isnt soo big

[flash22]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:39 PM, steveo3002 said:

another alternative would be fit the biggest speakers you can in the rear shelf , maybe 6x9"  you could brace a used shelf with mdf or make one and cover it 

they would be the biggest improvement for the money, more bass than the doors would provide  , and option to amp them later if you wanted , and youre not cutting into the car so it can be swapped to standard easily 

Do you sit in the back of the car ? You want to keep the soundstage up front, 6x9 are not an optimal cone shape add the Center mount coaxial placement it reduces the excursion and frequency response

Just some small coaxial's in the rear 1/4 or rear doors for some fill is all you need in a small car

 

My tastes have changed over the years, Im more into SQ hidden systems using oem HU's with external EQ/Processing/Line driver rather than my younger years of big bass - 600w rms at 2 ohm into a pair of 12" Alpine type R's

[MCjensen]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

Do you sit in the back of the car ? 

That would be hard to do and drive at the same time.  I just bought Hertz 6.5" component Speakers with tweeters. Have to figure out the wiring.  But first will be some door sound dampening.

[MCjensen]

 

On 3/8/2021 at 12:18 PM, PetrolDave said:

Some versions of the Mk1 Aygo came with tweeters in the A-pillar so if you're thinking of a component system then you could have A-pillar tweeters, dash mid-range and door woofers with a 3-way crossover behind the dash - this is what I had fitted to my Mk1 C1 (along with a boot sub-woofer and the biggest multiple-cone speakers I could fit in the parcel shelf).

I'm thinking of drilling a hole and putting new tweeters in the A-pillar,  as well as maybe also using the factory tweeters in the dash.  Did you have the factory HU, or an aftermarket, or an extra amplifier ?  Takes a lot of juice to power all those Speakers.

[flash22]

The comps will run fine off the HU, don't add Speakers to a system as it will affect the impedance and kill the amplifier (in the HU)

 

A 3 way crossover splits the frequencies in to 3 ranges Hi, Mid and Low, A 2 way crossover splits the frequency in to 2 Hi and Mid

You can run a sub off the rear Speakers using an amp with line level in or a line level convertor

 

You can make a system as complex or as simple as you like

[Guest]

4 hours ago, MCjensen said:

Did you have the factory HU, or an aftermarket, or an extra amplifier ?  Takes a lot of juice to power all those speakers.

I had an Alpine INE-W925R double DIN with sat nav (4x50W).

[MCjensen]

 

I just bought these HØJTTALLER RAMMER PSA, 165MM.  Does anyone which side is down on the grill or which side the speaker sits on?

 

[MCjensen]

Heres a blow up of the frames

https://www.tomzzaudio.de/Speaker-rings-adapter-suitable-for-Citroen-c1-c4-Jumpy-Peugeot-107-308-Toyota-Aygo-ProAce-165mm

 

[steveo3002]

what are they doing?   does the hertz mounting holes not match the door panel ?

[MCjensen]

Not really, but I think I figured it out.

[steveo3002]

oh what did you do 

i see the guy on the video drilled a new hole