2019 rav4 unlocks itself?

[ZimmerPhrame]

as the title suggests... sometimes my rav4 seems to randomly unlock itself in the middle of the night.. i know i locked it, as i always check, as this happens everynow and again... any suggestions?

[ZimmerPhrame]

...it has 'smart' keyless entry and start, and if I were to accidentally push the unlock button on the fob, the car normally relocks itself in 30 seconds or so..

[Ron Mack]

I was just checking to see if there was a solution to this. I just found my car unlocked again this morning.

[TonyHSD]

I want something to share with all latest rav4 owners.
We all know that these cars are of a high interest to car thieves and reading this post something has come up to my mind. 
I don’t know if anyone has tried this before but if you lock your car with the built in emergency key instead of your normal keyless lock the car will only unlock the doors with this key. 
My theory here is that if a thieves stopped by and they try to hook into the car system via the headlights electronics to unlock and start the car the mechanically locked doors will not unlock and may confuse them, add extra time to look for the problem and only access to the car will be to break a window which will create extra noise and increase the risk been caught. 
 

This above works on my Auris hybrid with keyless entry. 

But you need to confirm that as I have no access to rav4 

[nlee]

I did notice that once I locked my RAV4 with the key while leaving it in Ready mode to give the 12v Battery a boost and I could not open it with the smart entry or fob button. 

You may have stumbled upon something there but the reality is we don't really understand how the detailed mechanism of theft happens. Even with the key, it appears as though it is an electric lock/unlock, it still operates central locking. It's down to what point in the chain the fake command is given to unlock the door, i.e. is it pretending that the fob is present or pressed, or is it the signal given to doors to unlock.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, nlee said:

I did notice that once I locked my RAV4 with the key while leaving it in Ready mode to give the 12v battery a boost and I could not open it with the smart entry or fob button. 

You may have stumbled upon something there but the reality is we don't really understand how the detailed mechanism of theft happens. Even with the key, it appears as though it is an electric lock/unlock, it still operates central locking. It's down to what point in the chain the fake command is given to unlock the door, i.e. is it pretending that the fob is present or pressed, or is it the signal given to doors to unlock.

Indeed, but it makes sense to me that if the car gets  information from a fake key then it will do exactly the same as if you are there with the real key and given the command to unlock. The trick here is that you haven’t activated the alarm, immobiliser but only mechanically locked the car with the key which means only the key will unlock the car again. I believe it’s that way and if it’s me I will use the key anywhere outside where the risk of car been attacked its significantly higher.
If the modern electronics failed to protect the car, the  old mechanical key will do  😂👌

[ernieb]

I wonder how that might sit with the insurance company if it still got stolen having not, used the built in immobilisation systems?

[TonyHSD]

3 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I wonder how that might sit with the insurance company if it still got stolen having not, used the built in immobilisation systems?

As long as the car been locked and not unlocked with engine running and key present inside the car no insurance company can tell how to lock the car to any owner. You give them the key, this is perhaps all they need to have to do a claim. If my theory works and you have used the key plus the car has steering wheel lock no thieves will bother to try to take it, unless they come with a recovery track and get it loaded. 

[nlee]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Indeed, but it makes sense to me that if the car gets  information from a fake key then it will do exactly the same as if you are there with the real key and given the command to unlock. The trick here is that you haven’t activated the alarm, immobiliser but only mechanically locked the car with the key which means only the key will unlock the car again. I believe it’s that way and if it’s me I will use the key anywhere outside where the risk of car been attacked its significantly higher.
If the modern electronics failed to protect the car, the  old mechanical key will do  😂👌

I don't think I made myself clear.

If you have the key present and you touch the inside of the handle, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If you press the button on the fob, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If you turn the manual key, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If the intercepted signal is the one from the ECU to the unlocking mechanisms, which may be consistent for all methods of unlocking, locking with the key may not be effective.

[TonyHSD]

Just now, nlee said:

I don't think I made myself clear.

If you have the key present and you touch the inside of the handle, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If you press the button on the fob, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If you turn the manual key, a signal is sent to the ECU and the ECU sends a signal to unlock the doors.

If the intercepted signal is the one from the ECU to the unlocking mechanisms, which may be consistent for all methods of unlocking, locking with the key may not be effective.

You was perfectly clear from the first post 👍

What I meant was:

- the key needs to turn physically the drivers door lock first and then the drivers door lock sends command to the ecu to activate the rest of the door locks, passenger side, rear doors, the hatch etc. Basically the mechanical key override the fob (replaces the key fob button) and sends signal to the ecu. 
Imhope thieves aren’t reading out posts, but even so no key no opening of the doors easily. 👌

[Lawnmowerman]

Many years ago, a customer brought his Jetta in to the garage and said his door sometimes opens when he is driving.

I raised a job card which said 'o/s/f door opens of own accord'.

Two hours later the workshop controller (a bit of a wag) phoned through and said 'Bill, that car has sat here two hours and the door hasn't opened once!'. You couldn't make it up.

😂

[nlee]

22 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

You was perfectly clear from the first post 👍

What I meant was:

- the key needs to turn physically the drivers door lock first and then the drivers door lock sends command to the ecu to activate the rest of the door locks, passenger side, rear doors, the hatch etc. Basically the mechanical key override the fob (replaces the key fob button) and sends signal to the ecu. 
Imhope thieves aren’t reading out posts, but even so no key no opening of the doors easily. 👌

I still don't think you've quite got what I'm trying to say.

If the 3 methods discussed of ways to open the doors were direct, you would be right. However if the go through a ECU there is a chance your theory might not work.

If you use the smart unlock, it sends signal A to the ECU. The ECU sends signal X to the locks.

If you use the fob button, it sends signal B to the ECU but the ECU still sends signal X to the locks.

If you turn the key, it sends signal C to the ECU but the ECU still sends signal X to the locks.

I get what you are saying that if the ECU will only respond to signal C if it was also locked with the key, but if the ECU still sends signal X, and it is signal X that is emulated during theft, it would still unlock.

Look, I've absolutely no idea how this works, I'm only hypothesising on a bit of logical interpretation of the possibilities. I might be talking utter nonsense. You might be right but there is no way to confirm without detailed knowledge of the exploit being used or having access to the magic box. 

[TonyHSD]

29 minutes ago, nlee said:

I still don't think you've quite got what I'm trying to say.

If the 3 methods discussed of ways to open the doors were direct, you would be right. However if the go through a ECU there is a chance your theory might not work.

If you use the smart unlock, it sends signal A to the ECU. The ECU sends signal X to the locks.

If you use the fob button, it sends signal B to the ECU but the ECU still sends signal X to the locks.

If you turn the key, it sends signal C to the ECU but the ECU still sends signal X to the locks.

I get what you are saying that if the ECU will only respond to signal C if it was also locked with the key, but if the ECU still sends signal X, and it is signal X that is emulated during theft, it would still unlock.

Look, I've absolutely no idea how this works, I'm only hypothesising on a bit of logical interpretation of the possibilities. I might be talking utter nonsense. You might be right but there is no way to confirm without detailed knowledge of the exploit being used or having access to the magic box. 

What you are saying is correct and not a nonsense 👍

Actually I went out to test on my car and results aren’t as expected 🙁

The manual keys only protects the car while the car is ON in ready mode. 
If the car is off and you locked it with the key then you try to unlock with the smart entry or fob button does indeed unlocks so my theory is proven wrong 😑 👍

I really hoped to be correct and make thieves life difficult but not this time. As people says “ too good to be true “ 😂
 

[nlee]

48 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

What you are saying is correct and not a nonsense 👍

Actually I went out to test on my car and results aren’t as expected 🙁

The manual keys only protects the car while the car is ON in ready mode. 
If the car is off and you locked it with the key then you try to unlock with the smart entry or fob button does indeed unlocks so my theory is proven wrong 😑 👍

I really hoped to be correct and make thieves life difficult but not this time. As people says “ too good to be true “ 😂
 

That's interesting. I'd only tried in Ready mode as well. So maybe if you lock the car with the key and it's not in Ready mode the immobiliser and alarm are activated as you'd expect to be the case.

Never mind, we still need another cunning plan!