Brake pedal soft after bleeding

[J_mca02]

Bought a 2006 2L diesel e12 corolla hatchback recently brake pedal was very soft so went to bleed at rear calipers bleed valve was rung so i bought two new calipers and bled them today got a bit of air out but pedal still travels about a quarter of the way down before i get any brakes is this just a case of still needing to be bled more or is there another issue

[oldcodger]

Hi,

You should have bled all the wheels not just the back as there will still be old fluid in the front ones which may be causing the real problem...?

The Haynes manual says the Bleed sequence is - Front LH, Front RH, Rear LH, Rear RH

 

[J_mca02]

Just now, oldcodger said:

Hi,

You should have bled all the wheels not just the back as there will still be old fluid in the front ones which may be causing the real problem...?

The Haynes manual says the Bleed sequence is - Front LH, Front RH, Rear LH, Rear RH

 

Sorry forgot to mention that front ones were also bled

[oldcodger]

What kind of technique / device did you use to bleed them ?

Sometimes just doing it all again improves things.

You will always have a little pedal movement before the pads hit the discs.

[J_mca02]

One lad pumping the pedal and holding it on the third pump and the other lad bleeding the calipers i dont think its just play in the pedal personally i think the pedal is travelling a bit far for it to be just play i read somewhere that the Avensis around that year had a brake pedal that travelled a bit before the brakes and was wondering would this be similar situation 

[oldcodger]

Difficult to say without being there to 'feel' the pedal.

Apart from that,  assume it actually brakes ok once on the road ?

Could be so many things, this little chart highlights the possible causes.

The Haynes manual, which does the 1.4 and 1.6 petrol and 2 ltr diesel gives details of how to measure and adjust the actual pedal height.  as 132 to 142mm for RHD

Some other info suggests the free play of the pedal should be within 1 to 6mm

 

 

 

[J_mca02]

Yea once the pedal is about half way down it’ll stop the car on its nose nearly 

 

[Devon Aygo]

Does pedal feel normal when driving or if you hold the engine revs up whilst stationary and press brake pedal?

If it does feel normal or better with higher engine revs it is likely the vacuum pump needs overhauling, the vacuum pump should be serviced with new blades & seals every 10 years/120k which nearly always missed and the worn blades are not sealing well enough to create sufficient vacuum at low engine speeds.

[J_mca02]

No unfortunately when driving the pedal is still soft

[alan333]

Pump the brake pedal without the engine on, it should firm up within a few presses.  Check if you can hold the pedal firm without it dropping further to the floor.  Now leave the car for a while and see if the pedal is still firm and that the firmness is at the same height it was earlier.  If you have air in the brake lines the pedal feel will change.

[J_mca02]

Just tried this and the pedal firmed up after a few pumps and wasn’t dropping to the floor came back a while later and pedal was still solid

[alan333]

6 hours ago, J_mca02 said:

Just tried this and the pedal firmed up after a few pumps and wasn’t dropping to the floor came back a while later and pedal was still solid

Your problem lies elsewhere.  I recently had a similar problem with a fairly new Mazda 3, the pads were wearing at an angle due to the sliders seizing up.  

[J_mca02]

How did you sort this

[alan333]

Just now, J_mca02 said:

How did you sort this

Cleaned up and lubricated sliders, and fitted new discs and pads to the rear, and new pads to the front.  The same thing happened about a year later, a stripdown and lubrication cured it that time.  Another year later the same thing again, we sold the car but I reckon it was probably the front discs getting a bit thin by then.

[Mooly]

Our old 2003 Corolla had new front discs and pads fitted in 2013 (main dealer fitted) and the brakes were fine for several weeks until a return journey from a week in the Isle of Man when the pedal went really soft and almost to the floor. It would then correct and be OK for a while...

the point is that the dealer apologised and said the problem was simply that there was air in the system somewhere and that bleeding them can be extremely difficult on some occasions. I have a feeling they ran the ABS pump using the appropriate tools to purge any last trace of air lurking in the system.

 

[TonyHSD]

18 minutes ago, Mooly said:

Our old 2003 Corolla had new front discs and pads fitted in 2013 (main dealer fitted) and the brakes were fine for several weeks until a return journey from a week in the Isle of Man when the pedal went really soft and almost to the floor. It would then correct and be OK for a while...

the point is that the dealer apologised and said the problem was simply that there was air in the system somewhere and that bleeding them can be extremely difficult on some occasions. I have a feeling they ran the ABS pump using the appropriate tools to purge any last trace of air lurking in the system.

 

Seems like some air been locked into the system somewhere.

[TonyHSD]

I can suggest something that might help but might not.
Find a quiet place with sand or other slippery surface, accelerate up to around 20mph and press the brakes hard so abs can work for a while, repeat 2-3 times. Before you proceed check brake fluid level and make sure it’s quiet road and be safe. Check fluid level again, turn off engine and wait for 5min. Then try if anything changes with the pedal feel. 👍

[J_mca02]

4 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I can suggest something that might help but might not.
Find a quiet place with sand or other slippery surface, accelerate up to around 20mph and press the brakes hard so abs can work for a while, repeat 2-3 times. Before you proceed check brake fluid level and make sure it’s quiet road and be safe. Check fluid level again, turn off engine and wait for 5min. Then try if anything changes with the pedal feel. 👍

Will try thanks