Tilt Sensor?

[priusnoob]

Maybe not right now, given the sheer cost of the cat I've bought and the shield, I was just wondering if anyone knows where I could get a "tilt sensor" installed, if such a thing exists for my car? 

It's a 2014 Prius Gen III and an import. 

 

Thank 

[altocumulus]

Do they attempt to steal when there are folk around? If not who will hear the sensor?

[priusnoob]

1 minute ago, altocumulus said:

Do they attempt to steal when there are folk around? If not who will hear the sensor?

They stole mine outside my house, near the main road 😞

I'll now park elsewhere, not far from me and I thought that it would alarm like a normal car alarm? 

[BhxTrev]

1 hour ago, altocumulus said:

Do they attempt to steal when there are folk around? If not who will hear the sensor?

I beg to differ because my car has to be parked on my drive at the moment & if the sensor was activated while I was asleep in bed it would certainly wake me up & probably the whole neighbourhood. I guess the thieves would clear off pretty sharpish & I doubt if they’d have the guts to hang around while that racket was going on. I might even gain a jack out of the deal because they wouldn’t have time to remove it!

I have had a catloc fitted by my Toyota garage & the cat is stamped with a special anti-theft code so that if it’s stolen & then sold on it can be traced. Has anyone experienced having their cat stolen from a Gen 4 Prius that has been fitted with a genuine catloc? I was made aware that the cat on my car isn’t worth as much as older Prius cars because there isn’t so much precious metal in them, but of course the scum that steal cats wouldn’t realise that!

[priusnoob]

30 minutes ago, BhxTrev said:

I beg to differ because my car has to be parked on my drive at the moment & if the sensor was activated while I was asleep in bed it would certainly wake me up & probably the whole neighbourhood. I guess the thieves would clear off pretty sharpish & I doubt if they’d have the guts to hang around while that racket was going on. I might even gain a jack out of the deal because they wouldn’t have time to remove it!

I have had a catloc fitted by my Toyota garage & the cat is stamped with a special anti-theft code so that if it’s stolen & then sold on it can be traced. Has anyone experienced having their cat stolen from a Gen 4 Prius that has been fitted with a genuine catloc? I was made aware that the cat on my car isn’t worth as much as older Prius cars because there isn’t so much precious metal in them, but of course the scum that steal cats wouldn’t realise that!

Agreed. I thought that I could potentially have back and front cameras that records when parked, as well as a tilt sensor to prevent theft as much as possible 

I mean the cameras won't really "prevent" theft as much as it means preventing future thefts. Yes, they could use a false plate but then at least you have something to go on for the police to look at, and hopefully press charges. 

I haven't even bothered telling the police about my theft because I thought "The police can't do much" and my insurance excess was too high anyway, so what's the point? 

[altocumulus]

As the security sensor already on board the Toyota reacts, when set, to movement inside the vehicle, why can't Toyota add something to sense the car being tilted?

[Gerg]

1 hour ago, priusnoob said:

Yes, they could use a false plate

Isn't it absolutely routine for these people to be using false plates?  We have, reportedly, more CCTV cameras here than anywhere else in the world, but all criminals have to do to evade them is clone some number plates - easy and cheap.  The number plate making industry, as the scrap metal industry, has regulations in place, but no one is enforcing them properly, or at all. 

Literally decades ago, the major manufacturer of number plates of the time (Hills), if I remember correctly, suggested to the government an 'un-cloneable' number plate with an integral, remotely readable ID should be adopted for security reasons.  There was no interest from the government at the time.  That technology is now probably out of date, but something else secure will exist.  I hear nothing on that front these days.  It's about time that Johnson launched a number plate/vehicle recognition system that is 'world-beating', up there with all the other 'world-beating' stuff that we've done recently.

We could even let Serco be in charge of it. 

Quick!, Has anyone got Grant Shapps' telephone number?  Or Michael Green?  Or Sebastian Fox?

Now that he's got 'Smart' motorways sorted, and the implementation of green-coloured number plates for electric cars has settled in without any hitches or setbacks, perhaps he's on the scout for his next challenge? 

 

 

[priusnoob]

28 minutes ago, altocumulus said:

As the security sensor already on board the Toyota reacts, when set, to movement inside the vehicle, why can't Toyota add something to sense the car being tilted?

Yup, Even if these thefts are "happening across the industry" at least ONE manufacturer could take the lead and say "It's an issue. We'll protect it as they're new" and not subject people to towing expenses, increased insurance premiums etc.. when there's already something on there as standard. It might not be a "design flaw" but it's certainly a vulnerability that they could absolutely fix. 

Imagine if Cisco sold hardware that had zero day vulnerabilities. Nobody in the industry (my industry) would accept that, and Cisco would work hard to rectify it. Yes, it technically "happens across the industry" and you should "patch regularly" in the same way you should protect yourselves from theft however you can too, but from day one, vulnerabilities should be minimised, in order to mitigate the risk.

[BhxTrev]

7 hours ago, altocumulus said:

As the security sensor already on board the Toyota reacts, when set, to movement inside the vehicle, why can't Toyota add something to sense the car being tilted?

I mentioned this to my dealer about my previous Gen3 Prius but although he showed interest I guess he simply ignored me. I would have thought that with all the bad press these thefts were getting Toyota especially would have incorporated a tilt sensor on new cars but my Gen4 Prius has the same alarm system as my previous car. If it carries on it’s bound to affect sales of hybrids here. My honest feelings are that if the cat after the efforts & cost to have the cat loc fitted, does get stolen I shall be looking to get an electric car but as Toyota seem to be dragging their feet producing one it’ll then mean moving to a different company though I found hasten to add it’ll have to be a Japanese marque as I wouldn’t want to go back to buying some of the junk I used to drive in the past!

[priusnoob]

1 hour ago, BhxTrev said:

I mentioned this to my dealer about my previous Gen3 Prius but although he showed interest I guess he simply ignored me. I would have thought that with all the bad press these thefts were getting Toyota especially would have incorporated a tilt sensor on new cars but my Gen4 Prius has the same alarm system as my previous car. If it carries on it’s bound to affect sales of hybrids here. My honest feelings are that if the cat after the efforts & cost to have the cat loc fitted, does get stolen I shall be looking to get an electric car but as Toyota seem to be dragging their feet producing one it’ll then mean moving to a different company though I found hasten to add it’ll have to be a Japanese marque as I wouldn’t want to go back to buying some of the junk I used to drive in the past!

Agreed. Cisco wouldn't be allowed to get away with releasing something such critical vulnerabilities like this, so why should Toyota get away with not installing cat locs and tilt sensors as standard when brand new? 

 

I think I understand the answer to my own question but it's still bad. The financial markets have more lobbying power than companies like Cisco do, and they pretty much rely on networking gear to work. If perhaps Cisco was bigger than the finance industry, then maybe the networking industry would also be able to "Get away" with things 

Thee auto industry has a lot of lobbying power too  

[altocumulus]

Indeed Trevor, Toyota dragging their feet on EVs is likely to see me leave the marque after after having a dozen or so of their cars. We have two outlets for hydrogen within 30 miles, but that's not enough for the mirai to be a tempting option.

[Gerg]

Some thieves from London and the south east apprehended here (23.3.21 news story) by a team of "more than 300 officers":-

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/metpoliceuk/news/police-operation-to-stop-thefts-of-catalytic-converters-423914

Interesting mention of "Toyota national catalyst marking programme" in the latter part of the article.

Although, I can't see any Prius or Auris catalysts in the news article photograph - they look like they're mostly off other brands, perhaps with larger engines, maybe?

Perhaps this should go in a new thread as it's an unprecedented response from the police?

As this is local to their area, I think @Konrad C , @flash22 and @TonyHSDwould be especially interested in this....

[BhxTrev]

It’s nice to see these criminals brought to book. My own personal opinion while I still drive a car with a catalytic converter, is if the law cannot stop this misery with cooperation from the motor industry, it’s time to scrap the use of catalytic converters. That wouldn’t be environmentally friendly but on balance if nothing can be done after all these years of putting up with this devastating crime, until something positive is done to stop cat theft I really can’t see any alternative. Maybe the environmentalists might just get on board as they are a strong voice that just might get listened to & finally something will get done. Until then I’m fairly sure my next car has to be all electric though I have my doubts about the electricity it would use would come from a source that would be any more environmentally better than running a car without a cat!

[altocumulus]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=car+tilt+sensor+alarm&adgrpid=112320657508&gclid=CjwKCAjw6fCCBhBNEiwAem5SO-c_y9l_B2uSiULoFVhpe1YXmd9fYy-z8_84oIEw80hzgYAhDgkBixoCYFYQAvD_BwE&hvadid=446758988349&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046830&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5204727471966344519&hvtargid=kwd-940711788444&hydadcr=4643_1755123&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_8x5vwrorl_e_p49

 

[jm89]

On 3/24/2021 at 11:24 AM, BhxTrev said:

It’s nice to see these criminals brought to book. My own personal opinion while I still drive a car with a catalytic converter, is if the law cannot stop this misery with cooperation from the motor industry, it’s time to scrap the use of catalytic converters. That wouldn’t be environmentally friendly but on balance if nothing can be done after all these years of putting up with this devastating crime, until something positive is done to stop cat theft I really can’t see any alternative. Maybe the environmentalists might just get on board as they are a strong voice that just might get listened to & finally something will get done. Until then I’m fairly sure my next car has to be all electric though I have my doubts about the electricity it would use would come from a source that would be any more environmentally better than running a car without a cat!

Surely putting the converter in a more inaccessible place like the engine bay would be better? I think for alot of newer cars the cat isn't as easy to access like the new corolla.

[BhxTrev]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:10 PM, jm89 said:

Surely putting the converter in a more inaccessible place like the engine bay would be better? I think for alot of newer cars the cat isn't as easy to access like the new corolla.

I agree, but motor manufacturers have known about this problem for years but never tried to do anything about it. It’s no good them including Toyota, shrugging their shoulders & saying it’s not their fault or problem & offering no solution like you have. They really ought to get their heads together & do something positive to solve the problem. It’s a complete dereliction of duty by the motor industry & in my opinion those that have cats stolen have a case against these manufacturers. I bet if someone tried to sue a motor manufacturing company they’d soon do something about it!

[priusnoob]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:10 PM, jm89 said:

Surely putting the converter in a more inaccessible place like the engine bay would be better? I think for alot of newer cars the cat isn't as easy to access like the new corolla.

Or at least installing a Catloc on day one. 

[priusnoob]

On 3/26/2021 at 7:05 PM, BhxTrev said:

I agree, but motor manufacturers have known about this problem for years but never tried to do anything about it. It’s no good them including Toyota, shrugging their shoulders & saying it’s not their fault or problem & offering no solution like you have. They really ought to get their heads together & do something positive to solve the problem. It’s a complete dereliction of duty by the motor industry & in my opinion those that have cats stolen have a case against these manufacturers. I bet if someone tried to sue a motor manufacturing company they’d soon do something about it!

Agreed. I made the argument that Cisco would never get away with knowing about a vulnerability for years and coming out with the response of "Well if you buy this after you've bought this, then you're less likely to be at risk" , and they're a pretty big company with lobbying power, especially in the US. 

Though the financial markets have even more lobbying power and they pretty much rely on networks to function. The automobile industry has a shed load of lobbying power, which other industries that rely on automobiles don't have an even greater amount of power. 

Given this, they're "allowed" to have these vulnerabilities on day one, or as they're known in the IT world "Zero day" vulnerabilities. Why are car manufacturers allowed to get away with that especially when the Catloc and other such devices obviously exist? Yes they don't prevent thieves entirely however, if they're there on day one, then that's less headache for everyone. 

My local Toyota garage wanted £600 too for the catloc and I was like Holy hell.

[Catlover]

You can buy a catloc off eBay for £30-£50 and fit yourself, or get a local garage to fit like I did for £15.

Fitting a catloc “on day one”, presumably at the factory still incurs a cost, and that may be a cost some buyers don’t need to incur, so why should they be lumbered with a cost.

You can argue as much as you want on a forum, but if you think your car is vulnerable and you don’t have the protection then you car is still vulnerable.

[priusnoob]

On 3/25/2021 at 12:16 PM, altocumulus said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=car+tilt+sensor+alarm&adgrpid=112320657508&gclid=CjwKCAjw6fCCBhBNEiwAem5SO-c_y9l_B2uSiULoFVhpe1YXmd9fYy-z8_84oIEw80hzgYAhDgkBixoCYFYQAvD_BwE&hvadid=446758988349&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046830&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5204727471966344519&hvtargid=kwd-940711788444&hydadcr=4643_1755123&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_8x5vwrorl_e_p49

 

Thanks. Do you recommend any particular product? 

[BhxTrev]

4 hours ago, Catlover said:

You can buy a catloc off eBay for £30-£50 and fit yourself, or get a local garage to fit like I did for £15.

Fitting a catloc “on day one”, presumably at the factory still incurs a cost, and that may be a cost some buyers don’t need to incur, so why should they be lumbered with a cost.

You can argue as much as you want on a forum, but if you think your car is vulnerable and you don’t have the protection then you car is still vulnerable.

Hi Joe, I wish I’d have known this before I paid my Toyota garage about £300 to fit a cat loc. The only advantage I’ve gained is that it’s stamped with a unique code & registered with a company & if it should get stolen then they might be able to trace it! ‘Might’ really is the operative word because from what I understand, the stolen cats are shipped abroad for processing so unless intercepted, the code put on the cat loc would mean nothing. In any case by the time they found the cat I’d have had to have another fitted so I reckon your much cheaper solution is just as good.

[Catlover]

Trevor, back in December I think it was I got a Gen4 and an Auris catloc from a firm south London, both 3mm metal (which is much thicker then “standard”), delivered, with security bolts for £95 plus £30 to my local friendly garage, so £125 for both. It was on here, along with a lot of others fitting the catloc. Pity you missed out. It is just a deterrent, “go away and do some other car that’s straight forward”, it’s society that’s wonky.

[BhxTrev]

Hi Joe, couldn’t agree more. The idea that we spend £thousands on our cars only to have this vulnerability does get to me but as you say if it’s going to be awkward to get the cat off, I think in many cases would be thieves wouldn’t bother trying.

By the way thanks for that info about the hybrid Battery cooling fan filter. I did watch the You Tube video & like you said it’s really easy to get at this filter, so that will be done shortly. The only problem I have then is whether to clean it up or replace it with a new one!

[Catlover]

My filter didn’t look too bad at all, so gave it a shake and soft brush clean.

[FROSTYBALLS]

11 hours ago, Catlover said:

You can buy a catloc off eBay for £30-£50 

Is this actually a Catloc or probably an alternative device? The company that makes Catloc sells them direct from £95 + VAT depending on fitment.