Hybrid Battery Management

[Hybrid8]

Any good tutorials on how to best manage the Battery on a 13 Reg Yaris Hybrid?

The Toyota manual on this is minimal so asking here to those that will know.

Really after a dummies/how to type of guide, so can get the best out of the car.

[john p williams]

2 minutes ago, Hybrid8 said:

Any good tutorials on how to best manage the battery on a 13 Reg Yaris Hybrid?

The Toyota manual on this is minimal so asking here to those that will know.

Really after a dummies/how to type of guide, so can get the best out of the car.

Are you referring to the Hybrid Battery or the 12v Auxiliary Battery Hybrid 8 ?

[Hybrid8]

The hybrid Battery the drives the vehicle.

[bathtub tom]

As the Prius has such a good reputation for long life and hoping the the Yaris hybrid uses the same technology. Do nothing!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Don't think there is any owner management/maintenance that can be done on the hybrid Battery. Toyota servicing every 12 months or 10,000 miles (now called hybrid electric service) checks the condition of the hybrid Battery, and for cars aged 5 year plus, can provide a 1 year/10,000 mile extended warranty on the hybrid Battery - renewable up to the car's 15th birthday.

[Parts-King]

DO NOTHING, there are no user serviceable parts to the HV Battery, you are in danger of electrocuting yourself, please leave well alone

 

[TonyHSD]

Hi Simon,

Actually there are some maintenance tips to prevent any eventual damage and to extend the life of the Battery.

1. Cleaning Battery cooling fan, vents and pipes plus change of air filter if the car has one fitted. 

2. Checks and prevent of any water ingress into the boot and Battery compartment , water usually finds its way through the rear lights clusters. , never drive through deep waters, anything deeper than bottom of the car.

3. In winter use heating and set a desired temperature inside the cabin to be comfortable for you and the battery,  in summer time use AC when outside temperatures are over 20C° or as per personal preferences, but it is important to keep a room temperature interior as your battery is air cooled. 

4. Use the car from time to time, don’t just leave it without any use for weeks or months 

5. Do not turn off your car when internal combustion engine is running, always wait the ice to turn off itself first, then you can switch off you car, this is especially important when planning to leave the car for long time and your hybrid battery is drained. If interested about the hybrid technology you can watch videos about Prius as the car has very similar tech and most online info and tips comes from Prius owners and enthusiasts. 👍 That’s pretty much all. 
Enjoy your hybrid car. 

[Hybrid8]

What I was really after was on the screen that shows Battery levels etc?

Should I drive in a particular way to get the best out of the car?

And thanks for all the comments as interesting reading.

[Gerg]

This Android app is free and very useful!  It is written by hybrid enthusiasts.

But to use it you'll need a ELM327 OBD2 dongle (about £12 upwards) and an Android phone or tablet.

Its not essential, but it does 'open up' what is going on with the car's unusual drivetrain etc.

Definitely worth a look.

http://hybridassistant.blogspot.com/p/about.html

[Catlover]

56 minutes ago, Hybrid8 said:

What I was really after was on the screen that shows battery levels etc?

Should I drive in a particular way to get the best out of the car?

And thanks for all the comments as interesting reading.

Yes, there is a way of getting more from the hybrid system, though leaving to the computer is fine.                
Go on YouTube and look for “driving techniques Toyota hybrid” or something like that and you will get lots of videos of Prius driving, mostly from the US. I just been on YouTube and there now are some videos specifically aimed at the Yaris, follow those for sure but still more info for Toyota hybrids.

Enjoy

[Stopeter44]

I thought I'd raise this thread from the depths. After taking a while to assimilate how the "Power Split Device" worked in the Toyota Hybrid drive system, I've been wondering about how the managing electronics calculate when to switch between modes.

For instance:-

• When does the onboard computer decide that the traction Battery has not enough power to keep the car in EV mode ?
• On long down slopes, how does the computer prevent over charging of the transaction Battery ?

On another question, but related, how do hybrid users manage leaving their cars in airport carparks for more than 2 weeks ?

It appears that if the car is not moved for 2 weeks of more, then it is necessary to put the car in ready mode.

[Graham47]

38 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Snip ….

It appears that if the car is not moved for 2 weeks of more, then it is necessary to put the car in ready mode.

Early 2019 mine was left on my drive for 4 weeks whilst on a long holiday …..started no problems on return.

During the early months following March 2020 lockdown the car regularly wasn’t used for two weeks or more.

Earlier this year mine was left for 6 weeks in total due to me being unable to drive following knee surgery and subsequent rehab.   After 4 weeks I spotted a map update was available so I installed that, Car was in ready mode for about 45 mins.  Two weeks later car started without problems.

[Roy124]

Following on from Graham's experience, I got my car in March 2020 and it naturally sat unused in the garage for quite some time.  It started first time well into lockdown.  However I think this actually lead to the Battery being knackered a few months later and one year on it was changed under warranty.  

It was only towards the end of lock down that Battery management featured in Toyota advice. I agree with the concerns of parking up at an airport for two weeks and I have bought a Battery charger for home use and an emergency battery too. 

I hope however that regular use, in particular the 3 hour run to the airport, will condition the battery for the holiday. 

Apart from the smaller battery, I think the real problem was lack of instruction to new owners on battery management. It was probably only lock down that brought the issue to the fore. 

[TonyHSD]

That’s right, usually the cars that had been in very little use before left parked for longer time get into trouble with 12v batteries, if you been using your car on daily basis for 20-30 min or more you should not have any trouble. For the hybrid Battery it is important to keep cooling fan air vent clean and free from obstruction especially on longer journeys, keep the interior clean and cool in summer days using AC and clean and warm in winter days using heating. When you park up and your hybrid Battery is low if the engine kick in to recharge it best to wait 2-3 minutes with engine running to recharge the hybrid Battery to more appropriate levels and turn off itself, then you can switch off ignition., this is good for both hybrid battery and ice too. ✅

[Roy124]

30 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

. When you park up and your hybrid battery is low if the engine kick in to recharge it best to wait 2-3 minutes with engine running to recharge the hybrid battery to more appropriate levels and turn off itself, then you can switch off ignition., this is good for both hybrid battery and ice too. ✅

I think someone previously commented that it was bad practice to do the final leg of a journey on EV. 

Battery management seems to be the achillies heel and it's understandable that the Dealers are not about to tell you that your shiny new car won't start, maybe they were taken by surprise too. 

Battery management should be highlighted in the handbook and in a 'readme first' guide. 'battery' does not even feature in the index, only in the trouble shooting is a flat Battery mentioned. 

[Catlover]

16 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Battery management should be highlighted in the handbook and in a 'readme first' guide. 'battery' does not even feature in the index, only in the trouble shooting is a flat battery mentioned. 

Is Battery management highlighted in the on line manual?

[Stopeter44]

Thanks for all the rapid replies. I went back to @Catlover's previous response :

On 3/26/2021 at 5:27 PM, Catlover said:

Go on YouTube and look for “driving techniques Toyota hybrid” or something like that and you will get lots of videos of Prius driving ...

I found the series of videos from the Carcarenut, "Toyota Hybrid System 101.n" (where n = 1, 2, etc.) Which explains in more detail various aspects of how the system works. I haven't watched them yet, but I will dive into them shortly.

Following that, I think @Roy124

 meant "UNnaturally"

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

I got my car in March 2020 and it naturally sat unused in the garage for quite some time.  It started first time well into lockdown.  However I think this actually lead to the battery being knackered a few months later and one year on it was changed under warranty.  

 Then both @TonyHSD & @Roy124

 

48 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

When you park up and your hybrid battery is low if the engine kick in to recharge it best to wait 2-3 minutes with engine running to recharge the hybrid battery to more appropriate levels and turn off itself, then you can switch off ignition., this is good for both hybrid battery and ice too. ✅

24 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I think someone previously commented that it was bad practice to do the final leg of a journey on EV. 

Battery management seems to be the achillies heel and it's understandable that the Dealers are not about to tell you that your shiny new car won't start, maybe they were taken by surprise too. 

Battery management should be highlighted in the handbook and in a 'readme first' guide. 'battery' does not even feature in the index, only in the trouble shooting is a flat battery mentioned. 

I think this is all really useful information, and maybe should be in a FAQ somewhere ?

[Catlover]

Peter, perhaps Roy124 really meant to say “naturally”, in a cynical way. Maybe

[Roy124]

3 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Peter, perhaps Roy124 really meant to say “naturally”, in a cynical way. Maybe

Naturally as in complying with lock down rules.  Either being acceptable. 

[Roy124]

27 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Is battery management highlighted in the on line manual?

I have just trawled through the 600 odd pages of the online manual (well the first 100 and last section) 

The index directs you to page 615. It admits to the 12v Battery being discharged and then how to jump start and how to recharge using the Hybrid Battery, switching everything off etc. 

Didn't find any advice about avoiding discharge in the first place. 

 

[Stopeter44]

16 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Naturally as in complying with lock down rules.  Either being acceptable. 

I should have added the smiley, mea culpa.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

I think someone previously commented that it was bad practice to do the final leg of a journey on EV. 

Battery management seems to be the achillies heel and it's understandable that the Dealers are not about to tell you that your shiny new car won't start, maybe they were taken by surprise too. 

Battery management should be highlighted in the handbook and in a 'readme first' guide. 'battery' does not even feature in the index, only in the trouble shooting is a flat battery mentioned. 

Yes I will agree for the final journey thing but that’s not always possible, for example often happens to me just before arriving at destination to have my Battery drained, going into airports or shopping centres car parks is one example and what I do is just waiting few minutes for the ice to recharge the Battery and turn off itself then I switch off ignition, not a big deal if you cut it off mid charging then you start the car again after a few hours or next day, however if you leave it without use for longer then better wait a minute or two and you won’t need to worry if the hybrid Battery had enough charge for extended period of time without use. In older hybrids like my Auris 2010 cutting off ice mid charging leads often to engine knocking afterwards which is not healthy for engine and clutch., in some standard ice cars if you cut them off when engine is cold and it’s running at higher rpm you may not be able to restart afterwards for few hours., what happens is that when engine is cold the air fuel ratio is richer and if you cut it through you may flood the combustion chambers and can’t get fuel to ignite afterwards, with hybrids happens something similar to the ice since they work at different cycles when they charge the battery, heat up or propel the car. That’s another reason why is always best to wait for the ice to finish what it has to do then you turn it off👌✅

Here EV button comes handy when your car been parked and you want just to move around to another spot, no need to use ice just start the car select EV and turn off immediately the heating/ac fan , the car will stay in ev mode, the ice won’t start and you can complete your manoeuvre without using petrol and waiting ice to run its cycles before turn off. 

The BMS never let you drain completely or over charge car’s hybrid battery, unless you run dry on fuel and continue to drive in ev mode, at least that was the case with older hybrids , perhaps the new ones may have extra protection and refuse to go, but I don’t know about it and can not comment. 

[preperationlaunch]

6 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

I thought I'd raise this thread from the depths. After taking a while to assimilate how the "Power Split Device" worked in the Toyota Hybrid drive system, I've been wondering about how the managing electronics calculate when to switch between modes.

For instance:-

• When does the onboard computer decide that the traction battery has not enough power to keep the car in EV mode ?
• On long down slopes, how does the computer prevent over charging of the transaction battery ?

On another question, but related, how do hybrid users manage leaving their cars in airport carparks for more than 2 weeks ?

It appears that if the car is not moved for 2 weeks of more, then it is necessary to put the car in ready mode.

The car decides on EV mode based on a few factors, including engine temperature, Battery temperature and level.

Generally, my Yaris will keep itself around 60%, it'll go a bit over, and it'll force itself back on to charge once it drops to 40% according to the Scangauge. You tend to only get that low if you're parked and sitting in the car. It'll then run the engine for a couple of minutes, before turning off once it reaches 45%.

On long downhills, the car will spin the engine to burn off excess power. The Battery will keep charging to about 75%, it has a hard limit it won't go over of 80%. That's a reasonable time after you've filled up all the bars on the Sat Nav screen. As it gets to about 75%, engine speed starts increasing, using MG1 (the smaller electric motor) to spin the engine over. There isn't any fuel being used to do this. The power to do it is coming from MG2 (the bigger motor), which is running as a generator. You'll find that even at the end of the hill, the engine may start climbing in revs to burn off the excess.

You can mitigate against this slightly by putting the transmission into B mode. In B-mode, you're telling the car that you want it to burn off excess energy, you'll hear the engine involved in engine braking much sooner.

The traction (expensive hybrid) Battery can handle a lot more than 2 weeks without any problems, Toyota suggest that if the car isn't used for a few months, you should go for a drive of reasonable length to charge it back up. The achilles heel is the small lead-acid battery which can be prone to drain. I'd suspect that part of this is amplified though by the battery not showing signs of death sooner. A battery that starts the engine as well tends to have a slower decline where you notice it struggling of a morning first.

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, preperationlaunch said:

The car decides on EV mode based on a few factors, including engine temperature, battery temperature and level.

The achilles heel is the small lead-acid battery which can be prone to drain. I'd suspect that part of this is amplified though by the battery not showing signs of death sooner. A battery that starts the engine as well tends to have a slower decline where you notice it struggling of a morning first.

I've had a Battery give up the ghost with no significant warning to me, fine one day, dead the next. It's reassuring that with a mix of longer and shorter runs, and, say, a long run to a long term car park (Airport, or Railway station, for example) I should have no worries.

Normal usage for me is a few to many short runs (c. 5-10km) and then 2-4 long runs in a month.

[TonyHSD]

55 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

I've had a battery give up the ghost with no significant warning to me, fine one day, dead the next. It's reassuring that with a mix of longer and shorter runs, and, say, a long run to a long term car park (Airport, or Railway station, for example) I should have no worries.

Normal usage for me is a few to many short runs (c. 5-10km) and then 2-4 long runs in a month.

Yes, with this sort of usage the 12v Battery should be fine. 🔋✅