Petrol or hybrid

[Saxmaniac]

The hybrid does without clutch, alternator, belts, gear clusters, turbos, brake bands etc etc, economical on the motorway equivalent to a diesel, quiet, smooth, reliable. I'm totally sold on them and wouldn't change to standard petrol 

[Belucky22]

Thanks for a very informative post.  I drive low mileage so would not benefit much from improved efficiency.  As suggested I need to test drive both.

[Catlover]

Hybrid is not all about improved efficiency - its reduced atmospheric pollution from the exhaust as well.

But Geoff, in the post above, has made a very good point ie where he said in a Toyota hybrid no clutch, no alternator, no belts , no turbo etc... all these things cost a fortune to repair/replace and are likely to do so over the life of a vehicle. The engineering of a Toyota hybrid components have proven to be rock solid over 20 or more years. 
The driving experience of a Toyota hybrid is so relaxing too.

[Belucky22]

Much appreciated.  I will keep an open mind but now leaning to hybrid.  I will make sure I test drive both and use standard criteria alongside choices.

[ApophisAstros]

15 hours ago, Catlover said:

Hybrid is not all about improved efficiency - its reduced atmospheric pollution from the exhaust as well.

But Geoff, in the post above, has made a very good point ie where he said in a Toyota hybrid no clutch, no alternator, no belts , no turbo etc... all these things cost a fortune to repair/replace and are likely to do so over the life of a vehicle. The engineering of a Toyota hybrid components have proven to be rock solid over 20 or more years. 
The driving experience of a Toyota hybrid is so relaxing too.

On the other hand petrol is proven technology and a 5 year all parts and labour guarantee , whereas hybrid has two sytems more change of problems to go wrong and electric is unproven , also they will be as dead as petrol cars when they stop selling it, and the range depletion ie i get 40 mpg  , and petrol unlimited.Also all that weight of the batteries.

My Corolla turbo estate 69 plate is fantastic

Roger

[Catlover]

2 minutes ago, ApophisAstros said:

On the other hand petrol is proven technology and a 5 year all parts and labour guarantee , whereas hybrid has two sytems more change of problems to go wrong and electric is unproven , also they will be as dead as petrol cars when they stop selling it, and the range depletion ie i get 40 mpg  , and petrol unlimited.

My Corolla turbo estate 69 plate is fantastic

Roger

I repeat what I said in the post you quoted. Toyota hybrids have been proven for over 20 years in many countries and if you do research you will not find lots of stories of problems.... they are not there. Many Prius cars (all Prius are hybrids) have exceeded, 150,000 miles, and you get some owners travelled more then 200,000 and some mor then 300,000 miles. The hybrid engineering Toyota have developed has proved to be rock solid. The hybrid Battery has proved to be reliable, and the warranty on it can be extended up to 15 years. You name a car major component you can get a 15 year warranty on. The e.cvt gear drive is amazingly seemless, making the car so relaxing to drive. No worries about repairs/failures to conventional starter motors, alternators, clutches - there are non. Yes, you right, the hybrids have    two “systems”, but the “electric” system has proved itself, and the petrol engine does not seem to have any major problems either, and remember, Toyota hybrids are true hybrids, meaning the petrol engine is only in use some of the time. During the summer, can be 40% to 50% of the time, thus saving potential wear and tear of engine components. MPG, glad you are pleased with your 40mpg, my Prius is regularly doing high 60’s, low 70’s, and best I have got on a 50 mile journey was just over 96mpg. That was the computer dash figure, and you may say it will be inaccurate, so what in accuracy would you say.... 5%, alright, I will take 10% off, still making it over 86mpg. So that is less atmospheric pollution due to exhaust gases as well - that means a lot to me.

Whats not to like.

[ApophisAstros]

12 minutes ago, Catlover said:

I repeat what I said in the post you quoted. Toyota hybrids have been proven for over 20 years in many countries and if you do research you will not find lots of stories of problems.... they are not there. Many Prius cars (all Prius are hybrids) have exceeded, 150,000 miles, and you get some owners travelled more then 200,000 and some mor then 300,000 miles. The hybrid engineering Toyota have developed has proved to be rock solid. The hybrid battery has proved to be reliable, and the warranty on it can be extended up to 15 years. You name a car major component you can get a 15 year warranty on. The e.cvt gear drive is amazingly seemless, making the car so relaxing to drive. No worries about repairs/failures to conventional starter motors, alternators, clutches - there are non. Yes, you right, the hybrids have    two “systems”, but the “electric” system has proved itself, and the petrol engine does not seem to have any major problems either, and remember, Toyota hybrids are true hybrids, meaning the petrol engine is only in use some of the time. During the summer, can be 40% to 50% of the time, thus saving potential wear and tear of engine components. MPG, glad you are pleased with your 40mpg, my Prius is regularly doing high 60’s, low 70’s, and best I have got on a 50 mile journey was just over 96mpg. That was the computer dash figure, and you may say it will be inaccurate, so what in accuracy would you say.... 5%, alright, I will take 10% off, still making it over 86mpg. So that is less atmospheric pollution due to exhaust gases as well - that means a lot to me.

Whats not to like.

Still a brick like mine when the "Environmentalist" ban petrol. Because they are itching to do it , i will NEVER have an electric care on principle. Never going to have the range thats viable.

Roger

[Catlover]

A hybrid is NOT an electric vehicle. As long as it has petrol in, it will keep generating electricity and run on both petrol and electric, sometimes at the same time, but doing more miles per gallon then a petrol car (all other things being equal).

re electric cars ..... what range do you want?

[Hadrian1]

We are about to take delivery of a new Yaris Hybrid, Our other car is a Lexus hybrid, and a previous car a Honda Civic hybrid.

The only hybrid problem I had was with the Civic, which was probably as a result of sitting on the dealer's forecourt for too long.

The hybrid Battery being changed under warranty.

Other than that, I've found them to be brilliant. I don't understand why so many people, and lots of reviewers don't like them.

[Mooly]

It is a very very interesting question and one that doesn't always 'compute' logically. Our hands our becoming tied with what is available and that often means hybrids.

A new midrange Yaris cost an unbelievable £22k on the road.

Lets look at another similar class of car in petrol only. A Nissan Micra (nice car, not so Micra any more and very few around) and they come in at prices from just £14k.

Lets pick a fairly high spec version with CVT transmission at £17.3k

That's an immediate difference of £4700.

Let us say you keep the car for seven years. That £4700 if invested wisely (and this is entirely achievable) could generate around 4 to 5% income per year. Reinvest that back into the original £4700 each year and you are over £6k better off.

Lets say you do 10k a year and compare fuel costs of say 70mpg vs 50mpg. At £5.72 a gallon the costs are £817 vs £1144. An annual saving of £327 for the Hybrid. Over 7 yrs the costs are £5719 vs £8008. So £2289 less in fuel cost for the Hybrid. At face value that saving doesn't pay, the petrol wins out every time on its overall lower initial cost and income that the money saved could generate. The difference widens even more if you say you would reinvest the fuel savings annually.

Is the Hybrid dearer to insure... I haven't looked at that aspect.

 

[TonyHSD]

Hi everyone, 

the debate can go on and on, however the hybrid wins by all means,. The thing is that you as consumer do need to try the hybrid first for a week or so and learn about the technology inside, then only you can realise how much better a hybrid car is over even Toyota own petrol or diesel only cars. The magic of the Toyota hybrids is not only in efficiency or environmental, it’s the way the car drives, feels and behaves, it’s a closest thing to full ev while actually has been more of a fossil fuel car, so basically Toyota hybrids are the ice cars with the best stop start technology that also provides some sort of ev range. The technology is the best, the reliability also is the best, the batteries are not heavy, the system is modern and works, it does really make any other types of fuel cars look and feel yesterday’s. .,, if you compare Toyota hybrids with any other makes you will see that there are non better in existence, you can see that what people buy and drives. Nothing wrong to buy and drive petrol or diesel manual if this is what you like but comparison between is pointless, hybrid wins for sure. Some people need to try for themselves first, learn about the hybrid technology and then only they will realise it’s a winner formula, I also disbelief before until I had no choice but to drive a hybrid Toyota and ever since I have no plans to change to anything else, except full ev eventually in future time. I would buy and enjoy a manual petrol car too if this is what I am after. The reason the price is up is obvious., high demand, the reason others are cheaper exactly opposite low demand, was like that 10 years ago when everyone were getting diesels and hybrids were more affordable with £0 tax , congestion free etc, not anymore. The example with Micra is that if you get that car you actually are buying a same old micra wrapped in a new box, that’s it, same old school tech, while getting a Yaris hybrid you are buying a new modern tech car. , not by an infotainment or design but technology under the hood. Joe has already explained, I will only add few more things: Electronic water pump, electronic thermostat, active grill, the safety tech which is one of the best. 

[HS78]

There is a lot of support for Hybrid choice within this thread. There is a view that driving a Hybrid will help save our planet with reduced emissions. However, what else are people doing to lower their carbon footprint? Driving a Hybrid car is only a small step towards reaching this goal. The Hybrid is only really a bridge until technology for fully electric vehicles improves and becomes affordable for the majority. 

Have you considered that production of a Hybrid car compared to the standard petrol equivalent requires a significant energy increase due to the hybrid batteries? Although it may feel that driving a Hybrid helps the planet, this is not necessarily always true when you look deeper. 

This article compares the energy consumption during production between Hybrid and Petrol. 

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits.htm

 

[Belucky22]

I can only repeat my appreciation of people who have posted and how valuable it all is.  It is gratifying to have found a site where people can express well reasoned opinions in a respectful manner and recognising people can have differing opinions.  Too many sites don't have the same level of courtesy.

I expect it will come down to availability and cost to change.  Both appear better than other makes.I

thanks again.

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

It is a very very interesting question and one that doesn't always 'compute' logically. Our hands our becoming tied with what is available and that often means hybrids.

A new midrange Yaris cost an unbelievable £22k on the road.

Lets look at another similar class of car in petrol only. A Nissan Micra (nice car, not so Micra any more and very few around) and they come in at prices from just £14k.

Lets pick a fairly high spec version with CVT transmission at £17.3k

That's an immediate difference of £4700.

Let us say you keep the car for seven years. That £4700 if invested wisely (and this is entirely achievable) could generate around 4 to 5% income per year. Reinvest that back into the original £4700 each year and you are over £6k better off.

Lets say you do 10k a year and compare fuel costs of say 70mpg vs 50mpg. At £5.72 a gallon the costs are £817 vs £1144. An annual saving of £327 for the Hybrid. Over 7 yrs the costs are £5719 vs £8008. So £2289 less in fuel cost for the Hybrid. At face value that saving doesn't pay, the petrol wins out every time on its overall lower initial cost and income that the money saved could generate. The difference widens even more if you say you would reinvest the fuel savings annually.

Is the Hybrid dearer to insure... I haven't looked at that aspect.

 

Mooly, I would love to know where you can invest £4700 and get 4%-5% return in investment GUARANTEED.

Alos, you need to take into account the resale price of the 2 vehicles after the 7 years.

[HS78]

I've had a look at resale values between the Nissan Micra and Toyota Yaris Hybrid using Honest John site for data. 

I looked at 2018 models as that's a common time for people to replace their car as it approaches the 3 year mark. 

2018 Nissan Micra petrol new list price from - £13,975. Value at present £8,479 - £9,199. Retains between  60.6% - 65.8% of original value.

2018 Toyota Yaris Hybrid new list price from - £19,910. Value at present £9,617 - £11,500. Retains between 48.3% - 57.8% of original value. 

The depreciation on the Yaris is greater than the Micra. 

[loz8]

agree with all points,trying not to fall asleep at  the wheel as there's so little to do.

Buying one,the best ever.

[Hadrian1]

Sometimes you buy a car because you like the look of it, and it comes with features you will find useful.

As well as having a very good warranty, from a company with a record for reliability.  It also helps that

our Toyota dealership is about 300yds from where we live.

I've never bought a car looking at the economics of ownership. 

[rajivrattna]

On 4/9/2021 at 8:33 PM, HS78 said:

For myself I feel fortunate that I can service my own cars for less than £100 per year and no hybrid health check.

This high Toyota service cost for hybrid model (we were quoted 500 euro per yearly service here in Sweden) put us off from buying a hybrid auris. We bought a used 1.2 Turbo auris which can be serviced by any other garage cheaply. I even did the first oil change after buying by myself. We are happy with the car except for slightly higher fuel consumption than expected.

[FROSTYBALLS]

We've bought 21 new cars and things like road tax, economy, etc have never been a high priority for us. Features that are important for us include: it fits our garage; it is reasonably roomy with a good boot; the boot opening doesn't taper too much between the rear lights; has good safety features; reasonable performance; we like it.

Up to now we haven't either needed or wanted to pay the premium a hybrid (or diesel) costs over a similar petrol car.

As regards economy - a car does what it does. Road tax - never been bothered about this as a factor.

Our next new car will probably be a hybrid or mild hybrid - as these will currently be available new within the UK until 2035.

[TonyHSD]

38 minutes ago, rajivrattna said:

This high Toyota service cost for hybrid model (we were quoted 500 euro per yearly service here in Sweden) put us off from buying a hybrid auris. We bought a used 1.2 Turbo auris which can be serviced by any other garage cheaply. I even did the first oil change after buying by myself. We are happy with the car except for slightly higher fuel consumption than expected.

Hi,

there is something wrong with that price, or simply ripoff since Toyota hybrids does not require any additional service over the regular petrol Toyota, only the health check which usually is included in the price. It’s simple oil and filter change that any average diy person can do even at home. I do 5 services per year myself and savings are huge, the only negative is that I have no warranty but even on brand new car the warranty will be gone in only 2 years with my driving therefore I am not upgrading until my current Auris is run to the ground, next one will be Prius gen 4 or Corolla, most likely used just because of that reason. At the moment Toyota makes the best internal combustion engines in the world, hybrid or non hybrid. I am watching other manufacturers too and they have nothing that comes close to what Toyota has in terms of reliability, efficiency and ease of servicing. That’s another reason to buy a Toyota car. I personally would not mind having a 1.2 manual or 2.0 US Corolla hatch just for day to day use especially if I live in a small village or town with not much of a traffic, but since I drive a lot, sometimes in very congested areas the hybrid is a life saver. One tip here, the worst engines are from vag cars, stay away from them no matter diesel, petrol or any form of hybrid, only consider full ev like id3, id4, I cannot say anything about these since they are still too new to show any issues. 

[rajivrattna]

8 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi,

there is something wrong with that price, or simply ripoff

yes, it is a rip off. Toyota Sweden is allowing its dealers set any price they like for their service. In UK toyota has a fixed price service. Other manufacturers like Mazda Sweden have better control over the service charges and it is less than half of what Toyota dealers charge. This may force me to do my own service here (as I have done previously on our Aygo). As far as your comment on the reliability of Toyota engines are concerned I agree with you. I would add Honda and lately Mazda to that list. Our experience with German cars, VW and BMW has been terrible. Never again a German car!

[mcntosh]

15 hours ago, loz8 said:

agree with all points,trying not to fall asleep at  the wheel as there's so little to do.

Glad it’s not just me who struggles with that 😀

Very happy with the hybrid. I bought my one used because of the trim level rather than the engine but love the smoothness of the transmission.

[loz8]

self serviced my Toy's since 2020,first thing I did on hybrid,gave all my tools away.

[loz8]

oops,2000,on yaris plus a verso.

[Gerg]

21 hours ago, HS78 said:

Although it may feel that driving a Hybrid helps the planet, this is not necessarily always true when you look deeper. 

Just a few thoughts to add:

Whilst this might offend some people, I think all cars are a bit of an environmental disaster. 

In an Auris hybrid, as I understand it, the batteries are about 45kg, so there aren't as many as there are in an electric car.  The electric motors etc. account for about another 45kg, if I remember correctly.  The car seems puts to put them to good use for the extra environmental footprint they present.

Whilst this may not reflect the use the OP is planning for, the preference for hybrids amongst taxi drivers must count for something. There is some comfort from knowing that the automatic transmission is not wearing at all, in your day-to-day driving, however hard you use it.  It is the most reliable part of the car, and yet has no expensive service needed.

Sadly, traffic congestion is only going to get worse, the serenity and ease (stop/start mechanism and auto gearbox smoothness) at least makes this a little more tolerable in the Toyota hybrid, and as the average urban traffic speeds slow, the hybrid seems to hardly suffer, if at all, fuel economy-wise.

But from the OP's point of view, they need to understand the current situation with regards to catalytic converter theft.