2020 Corolla - servicing your own car (what a nightmare!)

[superclarkey]

I purchased a new MY2020 Corolla over 12 months ago and carried out the first year service according to the schedule, purchased all parts from Toyota and even took the car into have the Hybrid Health Check (£45).

Looked for the service book in the paperwork and realised there wasn’t one, They use a Digital Service Book (or Electronic Service Book as Toyota call it).

Thought It would be as easy as registering with Toyota as an independent repairer then updating the online records.

its now been 2 months of fighting Toyota on the issue, just can’t get it resolved.

The short story =

called the Toyota garage I purchased the car from and asked for a paper service book (they refused saying only online).

spoke to Toyota customer relations and said that I have the right to repair and maintain my vehicle at a 3rd party repairer as long as I follow the maintenance schedule and use all genuine parts... how do I update the ESR, to be told ONLY Toyota can amend the records no 3rd party has access in the UK to it... so asked if the law says I so not have to get it serviced at toyota and your saying I can’t update my records or have a paper service book then surely what your saying is I have to have it serviced at Toyota if I want a warranty... Was at this point I was told that it was an option to have a paper book if I so requested it... so I requested it.

4 weeks passed and 3 calls later I finally  received a “replacement service book”, totally blank... the dealership was meant to fill the car details out and stamp it to show its the book for the vehicle.

so I can’t update the ESR, and I do not have a valid service book.

I’m at the point where I just go pay for a service and Mod edit the car off as this is a joke.

bearing in mind I have access to many digital service records as a independent  garage, and I didn’t save any doing it myself, just peace or mind I was done to a high standard.

Is Toyota breaking the law?

(won’t get into the long story of how much time I’ve wasted on trying to sort this with Toyota Customer Relations) no one know what they are talking about on this matter.

Anyone got round this issue?

(car has only done 4000 miles Mod edit!)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota aren't preventing you servicing the car presumably as a VAT registered garage, so they aren't in breach of the Block Exemption regulations.

Access to their own electronic service records is a completely separate issue. You've now got a paper service book, so you can complete the service record within that.

Please do not attempt to bypass the profanity filter.

[superclarkey]

Thanks for the reply, I’m a VAT registered business however fairly sure the rules changed on that, don’t need to be VAT registered as long as your a business (could be wrong but fairly sure there was a rule change on that matter).

Regarding the Paper Service book they have sent me, it doesn’t list the corolla as one of the vehicles covered by the service book, and more importantly its not got the dealer stamp to show its the original book for the vehicle... otherwise what stops me from buying a unstamped book off eBay?  Toyota CR said you it was an option to have one with the car, not a replacement from another car? 

For warranty issues I can clearly say I have serviced the vehicle but from a selling point of view anyone looking up the service with Toyota it will say no service whatsoever has been carried out, and the myt app is screaming at me to get the car service constantly.

I hear what your saying though, just think its in bad taste thats all.
 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

When you part exchange a vehicle now, all the accepting dealer is interested in is a completed service history, whether that is electronic or paper. They don't want service invoices or anything else due to GDPR - there was a case last year where a dealer was successfully sued because a purchaser of a used vehicle was able to contact a previous owner from an invoice.

[superclarkey]

so just to clarify you think I should just use the “replacement service book” without dealer stamped in it at the front to prove they supplied the car and it is the genuine service book, and not argue the toss any more?

I mean, may as well just not have a service book at all? 
 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whether you continue with the issue is your choice. Presumably as Toyota are now using an electronic system for the latest models, they won't be printing service books which specifically include these vehicles, as the demand won't be there. 

 

[john p williams]

10 hours ago, superclarkey said:

Thanks for the reply, I’m a VAT registered business however fairly sure the rules changed on that, don’t need to be VAT registered as long as your a business (could be wrong but fairly sure there was a rule change on that matter).

Regarding the Paper Service book they have sent me, it doesn’t list the corolla as one of the vehicles covered by the service book, and more importantly its not got the dealer stamp to show its the original book for the vehicle... otherwise what stops me from buying a unstamped book off ebay?  Toyota CR said you it was an option to have one with the car, not a replacement from another car? 

For warranty issues I can clearly say I have serviced the vehicle but from a selling point of view anyone looking up the service with Toyota it will say no service whatsoever has been carried out, and the myt app is screaming at me to get the car service constantly.

I hear what your saying though, just think its in bad taste thats all.
 

 

Clarkey, just saying what you have done will surely be insufficient, you will need to evidence what has been done  and in the  manner that Toyota would have done ? 

[Catlover]

and to add what John P said in above post, surely you will have to retain proof that the parts you used were approved by Toyota.

Lets face it, here we are talking about vehicle warranty, a lot of money at stake, no manufacturer is going to want any joe soap back street garage do work that potentially has warranty implications.   Just my thoughts.

[john p williams]

12 minutes ago, Catlover said:

and to add what John P said in above post, surely you will have to retain proof that the parts you used were approved by Toyota.

Lets face it, here we are talking about vehicle warranty, a lot of money at stake, no manufacturer is going to want any joe soap back street garage do work that potentially has warranty implications.   Just my thoughts.

Not quite how I would have worded it Joe, old Bean, but my sentiments too !

 

[Auris James]

I feel for the OP, but if I had bought a new car I would have it serviced by Toyota, at least until my 5 year warranty is up. I would fill in the details on the warranty card and keep all the receipts of the service items. In Toyota's eyes it hasn't a proven service history.

I would be tempted to get them to service it, to keep goodwill and no wriggle room if something happens and need to claim on the warranty.

James.👍 

[Geoff W]

I think you have got this the wrong way round! Genuine evidence of the service in any form is what counts - not an unverified stamp in a genuine certified service history book. Keep all your part receipts!

Having said that, I can see that any guarantee claim or selling of the vehicle will be a lot easier with a full electronic record or a Toyota garage stamped service history. If I ran a garage I'd probably do what you have done, but my own home servicing days are long over.

[FROSTYBALLS]

20 minutes ago, Geoff W said:

Genuine evidence of the service in any form is what counts

For warranty purposes, yes.

However as I said previously, because of GDPR, nowadays when part exchanging a vehicle, dealers are only interested in the completed service book - they don't want invoices, etc, even if the documentation is redacted.

For example: https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/car-dealers-should-remove-names-from-used-car-service-history-or-face-expensive-court-cases/220790

[Gray86]

Other manufacturers are doing the same (VW, to name one). I did get a paper copy of the service book & handbook with my MY21 Corolla TS, but I think this was the dealer having a spare, rather than Toyota actively providing one 

[superclarkey]

Forget the fact that I own my own garage and that I can service it myself, this is an issue with the fact you have the right to choose who services the vehicle.

Yes its "easier" to take it to Toyota but the law says that they can't force you to have it serviced at a main dealer network and if you choose to get it serviced elsewhere as long as you carry out the same work then they can't void your warranty.   This is a fear tactic that I can clearly see many people are scared to take the risk, so their scaremongering has worked!

My Range Rover had never been back to RR in 3 years when it went in for a balance shaft replacement and yes they asked to see paperwork that all service work had been carried out and guess what no issues all done under warranty as they can't refuse if I've maintained it to their own specifications and used all genuine parts.

I've spoken with other garages in the trade and they all have said that Toyota is a nightmare, but the thing is why the attitude is "well just take it to Toyota" nothing will change.  

Even when I tried to book in for a Hybrid Battery Health check you can't speak to the dealer network directly (well that's what I found with the group I was dealing with) and put through to the a national switch board, When requesting the HBH check they said it was £90, and I directed them to their own website that stated it was £45 they told me that website was "out of date" and "didn't reflect current prices"... Then she went on to say well its "FREE" with any service, so why not book in for a service....

As I can't speak to the dealership about service stuff I spoke to parts team at my local Toyota who I buy engine parts of for older Toyotas (work on Supras,AE86 etc) and they confirmed it was only £45 and booked me in.

So the point I'm trying to make is unless your know your rights they are firstly trying to trick you into spending more or upgrading to a service and secondly look how hard it has been to get a paper service book.  

DO you not think its important to stand up for the things we are entitled too? You might say you wouldn't buy a car from a Private seller who has not had it serviced at the dealership, as I can tell you right now all the cars I've sold no one has EVER had an issue with it, specially as I run a Motorsport company and they are very understanding that the car would be better serviced through myself.  

This is where the Right to Repair comes in imho, if we let these things go it will get to the point where there is no way we can repair our own vehicles and surely if you would be in a worst position. 

 

I have no problem paying for access to information when it comes to these dealers, I'm happy they are available so that I can carry works out to the manufacture standards, I have never moaned about paying for that, but Toyota not allowing the DSR to be updated is just plain wrong, They are trying to devalue the vehicle by forcing people to service with them only.

I have many BMW M customers and MERC AMG type customers that will not take their car back to the dealers, I pick that work up and sometimes information  is hard to get.  I fork out for all the specialist tools for engine building from many manufacturers, why sell use the tools if we can't update the service record? Let me build an engine for a new Supra A90 with BMW special tools and I can't update the service record for the A90? where as if that same engine is in a BMW no problem at all!
 

Sorry imho this is just wrong.  Maybe you take a step back and have a think about it and maybe you can see it from another perspective.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota aren't preventing owners from having cars serviced outside the dealer network nor declining to provide technical advice, etc. They are not preventing you from keeping your own records as regards servicing.

As I said previously having access to their online system for recording service history, etc is outside of Block Exemption regulations.

I don't see that Toyota are doing anything wrong in protecting their own systems (the electronic service records) from external or unauthorised usage.

As we're an independent forum, have no association with Toyota, and Toyota don't visit these forums, opinions on here won't be seen by Toyota.

[JoaoM]

Hi,

I have Toyota cars since 2008 and never had a paper service book. The 2008 Corolla Verso (2.2D4-D) was the first and that Digital Service Book was already in place on all Portuguese Oficial Toyota Service garages. As I was happy with the service during warranty, I kept doing the services there. The 2009 Yaris (1.0) also came with no paper service book and even the recall for the Takata airbag and acelerator pedal were registred just on digital (I just got a print of the record). Of course that the 2019 Corolla just followed the tradition. The future is paperless, faster and accessible anywhere.

The only wrongdoing of Toyota is not give access to all certified mechanics to register what they've done to any of their customers cars. It's fairly easy to provide a username and password controled access with limited functionalities (just register their intervention). On the other hand, a car is now a very complex machine. It's not only the engine, the hybrid system, the powerfull watercooled ECU, all the electronics or the braking system. The safety and driving assistance systems are very complex and need to be checked according to a properly established procedure as a malfunction can origin a severe accident (check that last driverless Tesla accident that killed two man). I have no doubts that you (the OP) can do it better than many Oficial Toyota Service Centres. The problem is the liability due to vehicle malfunctioning during all its lifetime. Just think of the nightmare of proofing that the car was well designed, assembled and... maintained, with all the proper parts, tools and procedures in the predifined schedules... It's much easier when you can control the mechanics training, what they do, when and how, and can double check and audit. If it still fails, well, at least they know it was really their fault and can even try to avoid it to happen again.

 

[AisinW]

Toyota first 5 years has fully wareanyy for non tear and wear parts. Does not matter who do the maintenance. Just keep the reciept. If something failed, Toyota has to proof explicitly the failure cause by part you touch. They cannot blame if the inverter fail because you do oil change or ATF fluid change. 

The new Toyota Relax Warranty for 10 years extension is different. We need to bring the car and maintain it in dealership. I won't do it, because it is only 100 k miles limit too and Dealership cost 3-4x more than DIY. Only oilchange and filter cost max £50 DIY compared to £170 or more. Every 2 years with brake fluid changes it cost £350 or more and DIY brake fuid only cost brake fluid £10 with toyota brake fluid Dot 3 or 5.1  .  It may be good gor resale value but peoplw who buy 6 or 8 years old cars prefer £300 less price in well maintained car DIY than just Dealer maintained car stamps.  If the new buyer wants warranty, they can just visit dealership and start their own warranty anyway. Toyota relax warranty does not exclude you if you did not service the car in dealership before. Even if you are 4th or 5th owner.

My benchmarks is 200k miles or 20 years, not 1/2 of it. 99% Toyota needs no repar at that period as long as we maintain it well. During the first 200k miles, only wear items like struts, shock, brake, and tires may fail. Suspension parts like stabilizer links and bushing may need repair but not sure if it is covered by warranty

[FROSTYBALLS]

11 minutes ago, AisinW said:

Toyota first 5 years has fully wareanyy for non tear and wear parts.

Which is now wrong. With the introduction of the Relax warranty and for orders placed from 1st June, the new car warranty is 3 years/60,000 miles. Also new car warranties require servicing to be carried out by a VAT registered garage - DIY servicing doesn't qualify.

[AisinW]

13 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Which is now wrong. With the introduction of the Relax warranty and for orders placed from 1st June, the new car warranty is 3 years/60,000 miles. Also new car warranties require servicing to be carried out by a VAT registered garage - DIY servicing doesn't qualify.

Thanks for the correction. Damn, naughty Toyota. Can you give me direct link about DIY and VAT garage? It against The right to repair principle. We buy the car, not renting it 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Block Exemption covers servicing under the new car warranty, rather than right to repair.

What's the Right to Repair campaign? | The AA

[AisinW]

In my opinion, Toyota warranty policy changes in UK/Ireland is not good, worse than before because from 5 years becomes 3 years if we want to do our own maintenance.  It may not be problematic if the Dealership is very honest and only do schedule maintenance and not pushing BS service like injector cleaner, AC cleaner, transmission fluid flush, etc.  

The reason why I always buy Toyota in the past 15 years because it has no major issue if we maintain it well and almost all maintenance are easy.  Even some minor repair like brakes, ATF fluid, brake fluid, engine oil, waterpumps, coolant, filters, stabilizer bushings and links, shocks, etc. are relatively easy and last really long.  All these parts are usually need replacement after 10y or 100k miles anyway not before. 

USA warranty policy makes more sense. 3 Years bumper to bumper including brakes and shocks,  5 years powertrain, 8-10 years/150k miles for hybrid components. 

[TonyHSD]

Agreed with John, and for the same reason I have a Toyota since 2015 and don’t want to change to another brand., plus been a hybrid drives like electric car, nice and smooth. I fully support diy service and maintenance on our private cars, saves money, gives me a reassurance for job been done correctly and makes those sunny days more enjoyable outside, not always 🌦🌧🌈but most of the time ☀️🏎. The warranty is good though for new cars or when purchasing second hand just to be covered against major failure caused by manufacturer defects or faulty components, other than that Toyota cars are well made and can lasts long time with simple on time maintenance, not all other makes can do the same. 👍

[AisinW]

I just visited the dealership 3 days ago.  The front desk try convince me to do £300-£600 maintenance schedule at 70k miles although all the scheduled maintenance had been done to get the Relax-Warranty of 10 years. I changed sparkplugs SC16HR11  DENSO, identical with dealers part at 1/2 price, Toyota WS fluid 3.3L, brake fluid, oil and all filters changes.  I ended up stick with only Hybrid-system-check for £28 to get my Battery warranty valid and still do my own maintenance. 

In my opinion, this new policy does not fit the characteristics of Toyota owners philosophy.  It may fit Lexus owners and luxury cars market, not budget Toyota.   Back when I was in USA, we do not even change the brake fluid regularly, 5-10 years is more than enough because it has been shown that in Prius/hybrid, brake fluid after 10 years 100k miles only have less than 20% wear, Spark plugs 120k miles interval (SC16HR11 iridium), and tires last 60k miles or more. However, we have tendency to change the oil for 6 months/5k miles interval because most of us considered to be in harsh condition (short trips) and oil change cost less than $55 total with Mobil 1 0w-20.   https://www.toyotaofgreenville.com/service/synthetic-oil.htm  

This practice eliminate oil consumption issues in Toyota and many unnecessary maintenance (brake fluid, spark plugs 60k miles) like we have in Europe are avoided and focus more on the common issues like engine oil consumption. We also had recommended transmission fluid interval 60-90k miles that we do not have in Europe.  I am not sure why, it is probably because most European thought the lifetime is no more than 200k miles/20 years. 

[AisinW]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:25 AM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Block Exemption covers servicing under the new car warranty, rather than right to repair.

What's the Right to Repair campaign? | The AA

So, in short Toyota does not violate this bill. But it sucks, we should have a law for hybrid/electric vehicle to cover the warranty for all hybrid/EV components for at least 8 years like we have in North America.  This will push people to buy hybrid/EV and have a good confidence with them. We know EV like VW, Zoe, Leaf has notorious problems in their Battery because it has no active cooling like Tesla. 

[Dave47]

It would be interesting to know the percentage that use their local garage for servicing rather than the toyota dealership.