Toyota Relax Warranty

[HughL]

On 6/1/2021 at 7:29 PM, HS78 said:

Is there a particular reason from dropping down to a 3 year warranty from the previous 5 years? 

The 10 year warranty sounds good but does this mean that you are tied in to servicing at a Toyota dealership to maintain the warranty? 

Whether or not the new scheme is better for customers, I feel that the previous 5 year warranty / 100.000 miles was a much better selling point than the new 3 year / 60,000 miles replacement for Toyota. 

It will be interesting if this new scheme increases or reduces sales for Toyota UK or maybe has no effect at all. 

 A change of business model possibly: now that the world is much more service-and-subscription oriented, and less ownership oriented (see Volvo's  model), there's higher value in cementing relationships, even if you don't quite know what to do with them. If I was Toyota, I'd be looking at a potential post-Covid long-term decline in purchasing for both individuals and fleets, and wondering how to maximise the value of the network of physical locations that dealerships represent. I'd also be thinking about making it easy for people buying now who with an eye to 2030 are thinking seriously "is this the time to go with an all-electric solution?" and who might then make the leap to another manufacturer. Toyota doesn't have anything to offer *yet*, but at least one arch-rival (VW) is rolling out a whole range. Suddenly, Toyota has de-risked the decision: it will have an all-electric offer before my car is ten years' old so I stay with Toyota without having to worry. And, more importantly, *I haven't bought a VW* (and so become brand-loyal to VW). Constraining a competitor is a non-trivial benefit in a good business strategy.

A couple of years ago, Toyota was looking seriously at what it could do with connected cars and how that could strengthen drivers's relationship with the brand. I don't know if the thinking got anywhere or there's a lot of services waiting to be rolled out, but again cementing the relationship might create  value that could be used in a number of ways in the future.

[FROSTYBALLS]

7 minutes ago, HughL said:

I'd also be thinking about making it easy for people buying now who with an eye to 2030 are thinking seriously "is this the time to go with an all-electric solution?" and who might then make the leap to another manufacturer. 

Then again new hybrids will remain on sale until 2035.

[HughL]

11 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Then again new hybrids will remain on sale until 2035.

I'm not sure that matters; it's probably a public policy hedge against the charging infrastructure being only 80% viable and not 100% and I suspect that by 2030 hybrids will be a smallish niche and most people who can will have defected to all-electric (and probably subscription business models). The depth and breadth of Toyota's all-electric offering in the next 5 years may be what will really count.

[Catlover]

I was reading something the other day about what Toyota are doing with Battery technology. Report says that when Toyota brings out its electric vehicle it will slow Tesla sales down because the Battery will be so advanced, ultra fast charge (15 minutes) and over 400 miles. Other models will quickly follow. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota already has two EV's in China, and the Lexus UX300e globally, plus has plans to introduce 15 EV's by 2025 - seven of which will be the global Beyond Zero (bZ) range.

Toyota bZ4X concept previewed earlier this year - https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-bz4x-concept/#:~:text=The Toyota bZ4X Concept is built on the,similar to that of a large D-segment model.

[HughL]

18 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Toyota already has two EV's in China, and the Lexus UX300e globally, plus has plans to introduce 15 EV's by 2025 - seven of which will be the global Beyond Zero (bZ) range.

Toyota bZ4X concept previewed earlier this year - https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-bz4x-concept/#:~:text=The Toyota bZ4X Concept is built on the,similar to that of a large D-segment model.

So anything they can do to hold a few years brand loyalty will be worth it as there will be a good choice of models by then.

Also can't help wondering if this is partly a PCP mitigation; presumably if it pushes up residual value it lessens the depreciation balloon, but I don't know if Toyota are as exposed as other manufacturers or indeed if if it's really a consumer debt risk for banks rather than individual manufacturers.

[AJones]

8 hours ago, HughL said:

So anything they can do to hold a few years brand loyalty will be worth it as there will be a good choice of models by then.

Also can't help wondering if this is partly a PCP mitigation; presumably if it pushes up residual value it lessens the depreciation balloon, but I don't know if Toyota are as exposed as other manufacturers or indeed if if it's really a consumer debt risk for banks rather than individual manufacturers.

I guess it depends on how long the typical Toyota owner is willing to hold on to their car before changing. I think, generally, most people tend to own cars for several years before changing to something newer. Buying a new car then holding it to 10+ years is rarer. The person leasing a new car or buying it on finance, and most new cars are financed, will be handing it back at around the 3 year mark. 

I'm not sure whether Relax will extend ownership periods, changing that new car purchase treadmill of repeat purchases every few years , afterall car manufacturers want that and its driven by the finance contracts. I suspect it's more around your later point, about supporting used car values, providing people with confidence to spend more on complex and potentially costly if they fail, hybrid and plug in hybrids. If you want a good used car that will be low cost to maintain as it gets old then there's something to be said for simplicity, a low cost used petrol model that you can get repaired anywhere at low cost. I reckon many people put hybrids with motor-generators, power converters, high voltage battery packs in a different league, a potential liability as they age and they're probably right, there's concerns about the Battery life and working on them is specialised stuff, bit like the complex diesel DPF and regeneration systems which have become a liability. Would you want to buy an out of warranty PHEV?

And of course the other benefit is it gets owners back spending money in the dealerships using the workshop and into the showroom, with an opportunity to sell them a new car. Given the higher cost of dealer services I believe most owners use other garages once vehicles are out of warranty.

 

[Catlover]

A lot of “I guess”, “I believe”, “I think”, “I suspect” “I reckon”, “probably”, in those 3 paragraphs. You would have convinced me more if you could have proved your point of view. 
Quote - “If you want a good used car that will be low cost to maintain as it gets old then there's something to be said for simplicity, a low cost used petrol model that you can get repaired anywhere at low cost.”*   Those days went a long time ago, lift a bonnet and complexity hits you in the face.

Quote - “I reckon many people put hybrids with motor-generators, power converters, high voltage battery packs in a different league, a potential liability as they age and they're probably right”.   And yet many new members on this forum are hybrid owners. Look at Toyota Owners forums in the USA and you will find Prius owners that have done 200,000 miles and more. Not a lot of mention of serious points you mention, particularly hybrid Battery is reliable. And Toyota UK with their Hybrid Battery Health Check will guarantee a Battery for up to 15 years 150,000 miles.  Name another car manufacturer that guarantees any major component for 15 years! 
I can see the concept of the Relax scheme with its 10 year/100k miles warranty is following on from the Hybrid battery 15 year/150k mile warranty, which can only be a good thing.

* I can remember Dad in the 1950’s, almost every other weekend he had his head under the bonnet, and that is when bonnets lifted up from either side of the engine. Something to tinker with all the time, brake cables needing adjustment - What!     Today’s cars are computer this, computer that. All we have to do now is lift the bonnet, check engine oil level, check water level, check hydraulic fluid, replenish as necessary.

[AJones]

9 hours ago, Catlover said:

Quote - “If you want a good used car that will be low cost to maintain as it gets old then there's something to be said for simplicity, a low cost used petrol model that you can get repaired anywhere at low cost.”*   Those days went a long time ago, lift a bonnet and complexity hits you in the face.

Sure they've got more complex but most garages will still repair modern petrol and diesel cars but hybrids add a new level of complexity and skill around the HV Battery and motor drive, they are more specialist, similar to the diesel DPF and catalyst systems which are emerging. 

9 hours ago, Catlover said:

Quote - “I reckon many people put hybrids with motor-generators, power converters, high voltage battery packs in a different league, a potential liability as they age and they're probably right”.   And yet many new members on this forum are hybrid owners. Look at Toyota Owners forums in the USA and you will find Prius owners that have done 200,000 miles and more. Not a lot of mention of serious points you mention, particularly hybrid battery is reliable. And Toyota UK with their Hybrid Battery Health Check will guarantee a battery for up to 15 years 150,000 miles.  Name another car manufacturer that guarantees any major component for 15 years! 
I can see the concept of the Relax scheme with its 10 year/100k miles warranty is following on from the Hybrid battery 15 year/150k mile warranty, which can only be a good thing.

Well something is deterring people because most aren't buying hybrids, despite being around for 10-15 years they still amount to only a small proportion of new car sales, around 8% or 1 in 12, so something is putting people off. While you may be right about them being generally very reliable, if they do go wrong out of warranty then it's likely to be a costly repair to an old car. The guarantees help but they do depend on the owner continuing to service their car at a dealership which are typically quite a bit more expensive than an independent, so the guarantee isn't free.

9 hours ago, Catlover said:

Today’s cars are computer this, computer that. All we have to do now is lift the bonnet, check engine oil level, check water level, check hydraulic fluid, replenish as necessary.

That's the thing though, when you have an older used car it isn't just that, they start to develop various issues which need fixing, so you are getting the bonnet up and the spanners out having to repair it, or take it to garage to get bits fixed. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

40 minutes ago, AJones said:

Well something is deterring people because most aren't buying hybrids

Taking Toyota as an example, the Camry, C-HR, Corolla, Prius, Rav4 and Yaris are hybrid only, and sales haven't suffered. The Corolla is selling better than it's predecessor (Auris).

[HS78]

Certain Toyota Hybrid models have sold well in the UK - Corolla, C-HR, Yaris and Rav4.

Sales of the Prius have generally been declining steadily since 2010 where 10,585 cars sold compared to only 842 in 2020. 

The Camry is another Hybrid that has low sales, only 412 in 2020. 

Sales data found here if interested - https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1621350247SalesReport20002021April.pdf

[Catlover]

IMO the Prius is a very underated car. Its a good size, seats 5, very good leg room in the rear (they are popular taxis), amazingly reliable, about the price of a Corolla, but in my opinion better. Until the other day I didnt know they were still for sale new, but saw the specs and price list. I bought mine when it was 20 months old with 20k on the clock, had it 3 yers now, and sticking with it, Its what I been unknowingly searching fir over the last 57 years since I began driving at the tender age of 17.  I am not going to be able to afford a new electric car of any make, never mind a Toyota, so I am happily "stuck" with it until I physically cannot drive.

What I wanted to know - has anybody found out what the servicing costs are with Toyota now that Relax is in operation.  Costs will only matter for my Prius which is coming up to 5 years.  Today the wifes 2010 Auris hybrid had its MOT, passed. And it focussed our attention on the fact, due to covid, its only done 1050 mile in the 12 months, so we decided NOT to have a service either at Toyota dealer (presume Intermediate will cost £190) or a good garage, just skip a service, save £190. The car is 11 years old, so outside of Relax, the most expensive part of a service will be the 0w-20 oild and filter (say £70 max) and the rest is poncing about. Next year it will be a full service (presume £340), go to our local garage (80yd away) and save another chunk of money.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Don't think there is any change in servicing costs.

[Catlover]

9 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Don't think there is any change in servicing costs.

If that is the case it backs uo our plan to move the 2010 AUris hybrid away from Totora servicing. Not only has the Intermediate service (due in June 22) now costing £190, the Auris would not benefit from the Relax 10 year warranty (as its 11 years old).  I shall have to ring my Toyota dealer Monday, cancel the Auris service, book mine instead (due the same time but I hadnt booked it, mention the Hybrid batterey health check for the Prius and book a Batt Hyb Health check for the Auris - to be paid for.

[WazWii]

Yes it sounds good but does this new warranty offer from Toyota compare exactly with the original that was applied to the car when bought new? That is, are the same items covered and the same items not covered? Or is it a 'watered' down warranty?

Only through reading the terms and conditions of both warranties can one know. And I don't have the original terms and conditions for the original warranty at hand.

The other issue (although similar) is how does it compare with the extended warranty that was offered with the 5 + Club? That is, and again, are the same items covered under warranty and the same items not covered under warranty? Again the terms and conditions matter, and I see Toyota have been quick to pull all the links to the 5 + Club extended warranty offline.

Hopefully someone can clear this all up.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Why would Toyota keep details of the previous extended warranty scheme on their website when the scheme has been replaced?

There was no 5+ Club branded extended warranty - 5+ Club was a discounted service scheme.

The extended warranty has been on offer for at least a couple of years or more - which was buy one year, get a second year free. The main differences between the purchased extended warranty and the Relax warranty is that neither Toyota Roadside Assistance nor free MOT's are included with the Relax warranty.

Toyota Roadside Assistance may be purchased separately - either £7 per month by direct debit, £72 by annual direct debit or £76 by credit or debit card.

[Willss]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:03 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Don't think there is any change in servicing costs.

Interestingly this morning tried to get service plan from my local dealer and they informed me that the service costs for my avensis had increased to £235 and £385 for intermediate and full services - £45 increase on previous prices.  Went online to main Toyota website and looked there and services were still £190 and £340 when looking at service plans.  Needless to say I bought a 3yr service plan from them (all details received via email and checked/correct). 

Not sure if this was just my (English main Toyota) dealership trying it on (normally really good so doubt it), whether the fixed price servicing is being discontinued giving dealerships free reign on pricing or if prices are being put up. 

 

To check the price and make sure an MOT hadn't been included by mistake etc I phoned another branch of same main dealer and asked for price for my next service and they similarly quoted me £385 (not part of a service plan or including any other work).  Phoned another dealership group and they quoted me £340 still.  Anyone any ideas???  

[Catlover]

Booked my Prius on Monday for an Intermediate service on 22June, was told it was £190, same as before.

[Willss]

Following on from my comment regarding service charges having gone up I found another dealership charging £225 and £375 for what were the £190 and £340 services (at the start of this year).  The prices are asterisked with the note (which looked to be from Toyota GB) saying that these are the maximum amounts Toyota dealerships are permitted to charge but that dealerships were free to set their prices lower.

So my quoted £235 and £385 are above the maximum permitted by Toyota GB???  They did say on the phone that their price included the fuel system cleanser now (which I've never wanted/had before) so maybe that is how they justify the remaining increase?  Either way my plan is now with Toyota GB not my dealership.  For the 4 services (3yrs) I bought I saved about £180 and the services I receive will be the same and still get me the warranty etc. 

Essentially beware........ price increases for servicing do seem to be happening at some dealerships if not across the board.

[WazWii]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:45 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Why would Toyota keep details of the previous extended warranty scheme on their website when the scheme has been replaced?

There was no 5+ Club branded extended warranty - 5+ Club was a discounted service scheme.

The extended warranty has been on offer for at least a couple of years or more - which was buy one year, get a second year free. The main differences between the purchased extended warranty and the Relax warranty is that neither Toyota Roadside Assistance nor free MOT's are included with the Relax warranty.

Toyota Roadside Assistance may be purchased separately - either £7 per month by direct debit, £72 by annual direct debit or £76 by credit or debit card.

They don't legally need to - I was just stating that one needs to compare. I found some information on the previous Toyota Extended Warranty. Not terms and conditions but more or less similar. And I think it matches the new one. I am going to find another information source and also get in touch with my local dealership about this particular aspect. Or I might just contact TOYOTA GB about this for a direct answer as sometimes I feel my local dealer does not really have the information and knowledge to hand.

I apologize for the 5 + Club error. It was the 2 for 1 offer I was actually thinking of. 5 + I assumed meant after five years, that you can get the new extended warranty which reflects that name (5 +). But this was in error I now understand as I got easily confused.

I have purchased Toyota Roadside Assistance last month. Strangely enough, I rang my TOYOTA dealership about this extended warranty as my original is due to run-out. I was quoted the price (around £335?) and thought this very expensive. However on the phone I was not told about the free MOT's and and breakdown covers (both over two years). I was going to take this policy out but was told I need to wait a set amount of months before the original warranty expires (I think it was five months - can't remember). But now this option is gone.

Still as long as the service prices do not increase (again something I need to ring in to the dealer about - if so I might go for the fixed price service plans that you pay for monthly), then I think the new warranty offer is better than the old extended warranty option. No paper-work, nothing to sign up to, those that do not want breakdown cover do not need to purchase as a bundle, and as for the MOT's, loose change can cover that.

From my point of view, if I can get another 5 years out of this TOYOTA AYGO - then it will be a straight swap for an electric TOYOTA. And I think TOYOTA management must have had this in mind. In five years there are going to be some very smart TOYOTA all-electrics about from what I can see so far through automobile press news.

[yossarian247]

At first sight this new warranty looks good, however on comparing the small print of the previous extended warranty to the new "free" one there is a subtle but important difference. 

The previous warranty was worded in such a way that all components were covered, except a specific list of exceptions. The new warranty quotes a specific list of items which are covered, and states that anything not on the list isn't covered!

Perhaps not such a big deal, until you see that for example on the new warranty there is no mention of the electronic parking brake being covered. That was one reason that I purchased the extended warranty on our Avensis. I have asked Toyota specifically if the EPB would be covered by the warranty and will report back with their answer, but as far as I can tell it isn't. 

 

[HS78]

Hi Nick

It will be interesting if the EPB is covered or not. My previous car was a 2011 Avensis tourer with EPB. I traded the car in for my Auris which has a normal handbrake which I prefer. 

If the EPB develops a fault, it can lead to an expensive repair as the Avensis has had issues with this, certainly around 2009 - 2012. 

[Cyker]

Yeah I noticed that; If you read the terms the 'free' warranty is way worse than e.g. the extended warranty... and you don't get the complimentary roadside assistance!

I think if they dropped the price of the extended warranty in response to this I'd still get it just because of the more favourable terms... Although thankfully I got mine before 1st June so mines still 5 years :P

Edited June 13, 2021 by Cyker
*don't* get the roadside assistance!

[yossarian247]

Over the years we've owned the Avensis we've only claimed twice. The first was at 4 years old for a badly fitted drivers door window seal which whistled at speed. The second was for a slightly leaking suspension damper picked up at MOT and covered by the extended warranty. Under the T&Cs of the new warranty it looks like neither of the above would be covered. 

Toyota's 5 year warranty and their extended warranty used to be among the best in the motor trade. Sadly this replacement looks like a poor substitute. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably the leaking damper was covered by the MOT cover of the extended warranty.