Toyota Relax Warranty

[MCatPG]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:48 AM, fordulike said:

Wow, got a reply from Toyota, literally half hour after posting. Here's Toyota's reply:

'Thank you for your email regarding your Relax warranty query. It is important to be aware that when the Centre charges you for the initial investigation, if the issue is deemed to be a manufacturing defect the diagnosis and repair would be covered under the Relax warranty. 

Unfortunately, if anything is diagnosed as human error/abuse then the Relax warranty will not cover the diagnosis and repair.

I hope this clarifies your query'

So, that clears it then, I'm entitled to my diagnostic fee back.

56 minutes ago, fordulike said:

I said to the dealership customer service guy, that I wasn't after rocking the boat. I just wanted some clarity on the whole warranty/diagnostics fee thing.

3 hours ago, fordulike said:

Whilst I was at the dealership, I took the opportunity to ask if they were going to reimburse my diagnostic fee. They were still adamant that they don't do this, even though it's warranty work. I showed them the email that I received from Toyota Customer Relations and the guy said to email it to him and he would send it to the manager to get a definitive answer. I await with bated breath 😬

 

The email from Toyota appears to be substantially correct and the opinion of the dealership manager is inconsequential and irrelevant. If you have paid the diagnostic fee you should write a polite letter with a copy to Toyota demanding (not requesting) a refund on the ground that the fault was covered by the warranty and giving a sensible deadline for you to receive it together with details of where it is to be paid, and explaining that if it is not refunded you will issue a claim under the moneyclaim online service without further notice.

As a professional nit-picker I would comment on Toyota's email where they say: 'Unfortunately, if anything is diagnosed as human error/abuse then the Relax warranty will not cover the diagnosis and repair.' The words 'human error/abuse' have been invented by the person who sent the email. Different terminology which has a different meaning is used in the actual documentation and it is the documentation which matters.

[Cyker]

5 hours ago, fordulike said:

Just thought I'd give an update on my situation. Put the car in for warranty work today. Unfortunately, they had ordered the wrong part, so a 3 week wait will now end up being the best part of a month. They ordered an ECU, rather than the speedo clock assembly.

Whilst I was at the dealership, I took the opportunity to ask if they were going to reimburse my diagnostic fee. They were still adamant that they don't do this, even though it's warranty work.

I showed them the email that I received from Toyota Customer Relations and the guy said to email it to him and he would send it to the manager to get a definitive answer.

I await with bated breath 😬

Good grief you can't make this stuff up! Also, I just noticed you said the diagnostic fee you've been charged is £340!  

The standard Toyota diagnostic fee is currently £150 AFAIK (Unless it's gone up again, it does that often!  ), so what's up with that???  

Who is this dealer so I can avoid them???  

[Rhymes with Paris]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Good grief you can't make this stuff up! Also, I just noticed you said the diagnostic fee you've been charged is £340!  

The standard Toyota diagnostic fee is currently £150 AFAIK (Unless it's gone up again, it does that often!  ), so what's up with that???  

Who is this dealer so I can avoid them???  

You'll recognise the dealer Cyker, they're the ones who wear horizontally striped jumpers, Zorro type masks, and have a sack slung over the shoulder with "swag" written on it.

And they talk about monkeys, ponies and lady Godivas a lot.

[fordulike]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Good grief you can't make this stuff up! Also, I just noticed you said the diagnostic fee you've been charged is £340!  

The standard Toyota diagnostic fee is currently £150 AFAIK (Unless it's gone up again, it does that often!  ), so what's up with that???  

Who is this dealer so I can avoid them???  

Sorry, no naming and shaming.... yet 🤫

[fordulike]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Good grief you can't make this stuff up! Also, I just noticed you said the diagnostic fee you've been charged is £340!  

The standard Toyota diagnostic fee is currently £150 AFAIK (Unless it's gone up again, it does that often!  ), so what's up with that???  

I believe it was computer diagnostics, then labour added on to take dash apart to investigate further.

[fordulike]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:21 AM, fordulike said:

Just thought I'd give an update on my situation. Put the car in for warranty work today. Unfortunately, they had ordered the wrong part, so a 3 week wait will now end up being the best part of a month. They ordered an ECU, rather than the speedo clock assembly.

Whilst I was at the dealership, I took the opportunity to ask if they were going to reimburse my diagnostic fee. They were still adamant that they don't do this, even though it's warranty work.

I showed them the email that I received from Toyota Customer Relations and the guy said to email it to him and he would send it to the manager to get a definitive answer.

I await with bated breath 😬

So, another update on my situation. The speedometer clock unit was replaced Wednesday just gone. Unfortunately, the car started playing up again today with the original fault. Straight back down the dealership 😬

I explained that the new speedo hadn't cured the problem. Booked in the car for more fault finding. Earliest they could start that is Tuesday, so left the car with them anyway, as I don't feel comfortable using the car whilst in this state.

I know it's not Toyota's fault directly, but along with the diagnosis fee thing, the long wait for the part, only to find out they ordered the wrong one. Then when the correct part was fitted, it didn't solve the issue, makes the 'Relax' part of Toyota's Relax Warranty, urrrrm, not so relaxing. Actually it's been a stressful past month 😒

[MCatPG]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:47 PM, fordulike said:

Considering Aygos are like leaky bins, I was expecting them to fault find and turn round and say, sorry no cover, corrosion has caused the issue.

Sorry to hear the new speedo unit hasn't cured the problem. I hope they don't now find that something has corroded. By the way, what are the symptoms of the problem which started the saga?

[fordulike]

11 hours ago, MCatPG said:

Sorry to hear the new speedo unit hasn't cured the problem. I hope they don't now find that something has corroded. By the way, what are the symptoms of the problem which started the saga?

Occasionally on firing up the engine, the engine runs fine, but the P/S light and ABS light stays on. There is definitely no power to the steering and also there is no power to the interior fan and rev counter shows zero (even when engine revved)

Sometimes it stays in this state for up to 30 seconds, when a relay click is heard behind the dash and hey presto, car runs and drives normally. Sometimes the lights won't go off and I have to switch off engine and restart, until everything is normal.

I'm just a bit miffed and slightly angry, that they already had the dashboard off, were sure that a new speedometer console would cure the problem, but actually didn't.

An Aygo's probably the simplest car in the range, so if they don't find the problem next week, then I certainly wouldn't trust the dealership with a Supra! Aren't all Toyota technicians meant to be trained at the Toyota academy 😕

Just have this feeling that they won't find anything to fix and I'm left with an unreliable car. Absolutely love this car, the six years I've owned it, but this fiasco has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Does anyone think that if they don't fix the problem, that I should pursue the matter with Toyota HQ, or should I just take the hit and move on? I'm not sure how keen Toyota are to keep a loyal customer who has always had their car Toyota dealer serviced.

[fordulike]

Apologies for harping on about my prediciment, but other forum member's experiences and/or knowledge, might help me make some important decisions over the next week or so.

Does anyone know if a Toyota dealership is obligated to keep trying to fix a car under warranty, or is there a point where they can just wash their hands of a customer?

Theoretically, If a car cannot be fixed under warranty, is it likely that Toyota would offer some goodwill gesture, such as a nice discount off another approved used Toyota?

Any answers, good or bad, will be much appreciated 🙂

[flash22]

@fordulike You may want to start your own thread, It sounds like a relay or EPS issue

i will dig into this a bit more for you, if you like

[fordulike]

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

@fordulike You may want to start your own thread, It sounds like a relay or EPS issue

i will dig into this a bit more for you, if you like

I originally thought it might be a weak relay issue. I come from a military background, so you kinda have a basic knowledge of electrical and mechanical things.

Yeah, I would be grateful if you could dig about please. Any extra info I can give the Toyota tech, will hopefully help.

[fordulike]

New thread started, so as not to dilute this one:

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/208619-strange-electrical-issue-on-2013-aygo/#comment-1653447

[fordulike]

Hopefully, this will clear up any uncertainty that forum members might have regarding the Relax Warranty, and whether diagnostics fees are payable by the vehicle owner when a warranty claim repair is carried out.

Here is another thread, started by myself, in case you want to follow what this all relates to:

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/208619-strange-electrical-issue-on-2013-aygo/#comments

The initial problem was that it wasn't clear whether I was liable to pay the £342 diagnostic/labour fee, when my Aygo had some warranty work carried out. Toyota Customer Services said I didn't and the dealer said I did.

The dealer printed out a copy of the terms and conditions for me and it looks like diagnostics isn't included in a Relax warranty repair. See below.

I did receive a goodwill gesture of a free major service, of which I was happy to accept from the dealer.

It hasn't been a pleasant experience and highlights the lack of transparency and communication, both from Toyota and the dealer to the customer and between themselves.

Technically, I've got a free major service out of it, but after the hassle I've had for over a month, I feel is totally justified.

[MCatPG]

I don't think that wording works in the way that the dealer says it does.

I assume you purchased the car as a private individual, ie: as a consumer, not as a business. If you did, then the contract (which includes the warranty) should be construed against the supplier in the event of any ambiguity or uncertainty. In my professional career I twice won cases where the question of who a contract should be construed against was a key issue. These weren't consumer protection cases but the point is still relevant. If the claimant or the defendant in a dispute about a contract can show that the contract should be construed against the other side they are in a very strong position when the court is considering what the words in the contract actually mean.

Here is the full clause which is numbered 13(a) in the Relax Warranty. I have used highlights to help understand it.

The preamble to the clause states: 'Types of parts and components not covered by the Additional Warranty includes, but are not limited to:', and includes at the end, 'Diagnostics'. I'm not sure such a word actually exists but even if it does I will try to show why I think it is not a 'part or component'. If I am right the clause falls at the first hurdle. It does not do what the dealer says it does. I will amplify this point.

The first set of parts and components which are excluded are 'Maintenance parts (e.g. parts that have to be replaced periodically, filters, brake pads, linings, shoes and cables, clutch disc, clutch cover and clutch bearing)'

Next we have 'wheels, rims and tyres'

Next, '(V or multi V) belts' 

Next, 'batteries (unless hybrid Battery in case explicitly mentioned as covered*)'

Next, 'fluids'

Next, 'spark plugs'

It is evident that all these things are parts and components. A filter, a clutch disc, a tyre, a Battery, and so on are all tangible things which can be a part or component of a vehicle. Even a fluid can be part of a vehicle, for example oil when it is in the engine.

And, finally, 'diagnostics'.

A 'diagnostic' is not and cannot be a part or a component of a vehicle because the word 'diagnostic' is an adjective, not a noun. As I said above, I'm not convinced the word "diagnostics" even exists, but if it does it must follow the singular form and remain an adjective.

Collins English Dictionary (other dictionaries agree) states that the word "diagnostic" is an adjective and gives the following explanation: 'Diagnostic equipment, methods, or systems are used for discovering what is wrong with people who are ill or with things that do not work properly.'

Perhaps Toyota's lawyer (or whoever it was that tried to write their truly dreadful amateurish documents) would say that they actually meant "diagnostic equipment" which would at least be a tangible thing, but it still wouldn't be a part or component of a vehicle. Or perhaps they meant a diagnostic test, but that is an action not a tangible thing.

Therefore I think the clause fails to exclude the cost of the diagnostic work from the Toyota Relax warranty.

 A pedant would note that the grammar of this clause is incorrect and the final bracket is otiose but that's just evidence of drafting incompetence and we will ignore those faults. 😉 

As usual I point out that I am retired from professional practice and anything I say in this forum is merely my personal opinion and is given without any personal liability. 

* the hybrid Battery is NOT covered - see this post

 

 

[mobi]

Is there any list showing in tabular format which items are covered in manufacturer's warranty but not covered under Relax warranty? 

[mobi]

22 hours ago, mobi said:

Is there any list showing in tabular format which items are covered in manufacturer's warranty but not covered under Relax warranty? 

I asked this from Toyota UK customer service and this was their response. 

Unfortunately we do not have a tabulated list as such comparing the differences but the Service and Warranty booklet has the differences between the two warranty products and what is and isnt included. If you do not have his booklet, your local Toyota Centre would be able to provide this for you.

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

 

From 1st June 2021 new Toyota vehicles are covered by a 3 year/60,000 mile new car warranty, which may be extended by 1 year/10,000 miles up to 10 years/100,000 miles by having the car serviced by a Toyota dealer.

The 10 year/100,000 warranty offer also applies to used cars.

 

I read this in post #1 could someone tell me if i get my 2019 Yaris serviced at a dealer when it is next due will i  be covered by this warranty or is it  only for cars after the 3 year warranty has finished?  (forth year on) 

Thanks in advance.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Relax extended warranty will apply when the car is serviced at the end of either 1) the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty (cars first registered before 1st June 2021), or 2) the 3 year/60,000 miles new car warranty (cars first registered from 1st June 2021).

So your 2019 car will still currently have some of the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty remaining. It will be eligible for the Relax extended warranty with the service due in 2024, at the end of the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty.

 

[Max_Headroom]

5 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

So your 2019 car will still currently have some of the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty remaining. It will be eligible for the Relax extended warranty with the service due in 2024, at the end of the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty.

Thanks for explaining i had no idea mine is covered by a 5 year warranty i thought it was 3 so out of warranty, that has made my night.

[Max_Headroom]

3 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

that has made my night.

I may have gone far too early. 😄

Is this 5 year warranty transferable as i bought the car last year?

 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Yes both the 5 year/100,000 miles and the 3 year/60,000 miles new car warranties are transferable.

[Max_Headroom]

Thanks that is great news.

[cruiserOAP]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:43 AM, FROSTYBALLS said:

See: https://media.toyota.co.uk/2021/06/toyota-relax-a-revolution-in-vehicle-warranty-cover/

https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-warranty-how-it-works/

From 1st June 2021 new Toyota vehicles are covered by a 3 year/60,000 mile new car warranty, which may be extended by 1 year/10,000 miles up to 10 years/100,000 miles by having the car serviced by a Toyota dealer.

The 10 year/100,000 warranty offer also applies to used cars.

Terms and conditions attached.

 

Toyota Relax TCs - 25.05.21_tcm-3060-2286757.pdf 103.62 kB · 1,974 downloads

I've just realised how big a benefit the 10 year warranty is.

I was paying for the Seat extended warranty, which cost me £150 last year, but they don't offer it after 7 years. Out of curiosity I asked for a Warranty Direct quote for my 7 year old Seat (52000 miles) and it was £750 p.a.!  Swapping to a new Toyota is better value than I thought, as keeping the Seat another 3 years would have cost me £2250 extra in running costs or risk an expensive VAG repair. 

[Yugguy1970]

23 minutes ago, cruiserOAP said:

I've just realised how big a benefit the 10 year warranty is.

I was paying for the Seat extended warranty, which cost me £150 last year, but they don't offer it after 7 years. Out of curiosity I asked for a Warranty Direct quote for my 7 year old Seat (52000 miles) and it was £750 p.a.!  Swapping to a new Toyota is better value than I thought, as keeping the Seat another 3 years would have cost me £2250 extra in running costs or risk an expensive VAG repair. 

Yep, people complain about the Toyota service charges but they effectively include the purchase of a year's warranty.

[cruiserOAP]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:43 PM, MCatPG said:

I don't think that wording works in the way that the dealer says it does.

I assume you purchased the car as a private individual, ie: as a consumer, not as a business. If you did, then the contract (which includes the warranty) should be construed against the supplier in the event of any ambiguity or uncertainty. In my professional career I twice won cases where the question of who a contract should be construed against was a key issue. These weren't consumer protection cases but the point is still relevant. If the claimant or the defendant in a dispute about a contract can show that the contract should be construed against the other side they are in a very strong position when the court is considering what the words in the contract actually mean.

Here is the full clause which is numbered 13(a) in the Relax Warranty. I have used highlights to help understand it.

The preamble to the clause states: 'Types of parts and components not covered by the Additional Warranty includes, but are not limited to:', and includes at the end, 'Diagnostics'. I'm not sure such a word actually exists but even if it does I will try to show why I think it is not a 'part or component'. If I am right the clause falls at the first hurdle. It does not do what the dealer says it does. I will amplify this point.

The first set of parts and components which are excluded are 'Maintenance parts (e.g. parts that have to be replaced periodically, filters, brake pads, linings, shoes and cables, clutch disc, clutch cover and clutch bearing)'

Next we have 'wheels, rims and tyres'

Next, '(V or multi V) belts' 

Next, 'batteries (unless hybrid battery in case explicitly mentioned as covered*)'

Next, 'fluids'

Next, 'spark plugs'

It is evident that all these things are parts and components. A filter, a clutch disc, a tyre, a battery, and so on are all tangible things which can be a part or component of a vehicle. Even a fluid can be part of a vehicle, for example oil when it is in the engine.

And, finally, 'diagnostics'.

A 'diagnostic' is not and cannot be a part or a component of a vehicle because the word 'diagnostic' is an adjective, not a noun. As I said above, I'm not convinced the word "diagnostics" even exists, but if it does it must follow the singular form and remain an adjective.

Collins English Dictionary (other dictionaries agree) states that the word "diagnostic" is an adjective and gives the following explanation: 'Diagnostic equipment, methods, or systems are used for discovering what is wrong with people who are ill or with things that do not work properly.'

Perhaps Toyota's lawyer (or whoever it was that tried to write their truly dreadful amateurish documents) would say that they actually meant "diagnostic equipment" which would at least be a tangible thing, but it still wouldn't be a part or component of a vehicle. Or perhaps they meant a diagnostic test, but that is an action not a tangible thing.

Therefore I think the clause fails to exclude the cost of the diagnostic work from the Toyota Relax warranty.

 A pedant would note that the grammar of this clause is incorrect and the final bracket is otiose but that's just evidence of drafting incompetence and we will ignore those faults. 😉 

As usual I point out that I am retired from professional practice and anything I say in this forum is merely my personal opinion and is given without any personal liability. 

* the hybrid battery is NOT covered - see this post

 

 

Are they referring to the cost of diagnosing a wear and tear item, i.e. maintenance parts not covered by the warranty? If so, this applies to all warranties, as the diagnostic costs are only refunded if the fault diagnosed is in a component covered by the warranty. So that's just standard industry practice.