2015 2.2 Invincible MPG?

[Bobby_1970]

Hi all. 

Looking to purchase a Rav 4 2.2 Invincible Diesel. 

Lovely looking car and loads of equipment. 

Kist wondering, am I likely to see 40mpg on a motorway commute of 30 miles?

Or am I being unrealistic?

Many thanks. 

[philip42h]

Manual or automatic? And how are you going to drive it?

My Icon 2.2 D-CAT auto returned an average of 37.7 mpg over 62k miles - driven 'sensibly' but not slowly and much of that over motorways. The best I ever managed from a tankful was 43.8mpg.

So, if it's an automatic you are probably being a shade optimistic; if its a manual and you are prepared to drive 'economically' you should achieve your target.

[Bobby_1970]

52 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Manual or automatic? And how are you going to drive it?

My Icon 2.2 D-CAT auto returned an average of 37.7 mpg over 62k miles - driven 'sensibly' but not slowly and much of that over motorways. The best I ever managed from a tankful was 43.8mpg.

So, if it's an automatic you are probably being a shade optimistic; if its a manual and you are prepared to drive 'economically' you should achieve your target.

Hi Philip. Thanks for the info. It's a manual. I do a 65 mile round trip to work snd back every day. Mostly motorway and A roads. 

Generally sitting at 75-80 indicated. 

Sounds like it could be do able. After having an Octavia vRS TDI which seemed to always do high 40s and low 50s when calculated I just need to factor tie extra cost. But should be manageable. 

Never had a Toyota and never had an SUV or AWD vehicle. Was considering a Suzuki Vitara, newer but not the same class quality wise as the Toyota. 

Anything outstanding problem wise I should be aware of?

Its a one owner, full service history car from my local Toyota dealership. 

 

 

[Avalon]

Shouldn’t be that far off, but I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape over mpg, it’s not really that relevant to overall cost per mile which is what’s important. As a former Octavia MK2 DSG/Leon MK2 Sport DSG/Golf MK5 DSG owner who used to do 2K/m of commuting plus personal, the RAV’s weren’t that different overall, I just spent money differently.

[Bobby_1970]

16 minutes ago, Avalon said:

Shouldn’t be that far off, but I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape over mpg, it’s not really that relevant to overall cost per mile which is what’s important. As a former Octavia MK2 DSG/Leon MK2 Sport DSG/Golf MK5 DSG owner who used to do 2K/m of commuting plus personal, the RAV’s weren’t that different overall, I just spent money differently.

Good bit of info. Thank you. 

Might be a silly question. But can you manually engage the all wheel drive or is it fully automatic?

Any diff lock or hill descent control?

Are they any use off road, for example sort tracks etc. Not any proper rough stuff. 

[Avalon]

RAV’s are firmly in the ‘Soft Road’ category, they lack the ground clearance for anything serious. Probably OK for a muddy field or farm tracks, less so for proper green lane work or serious off-road work.

[Bobby_1970]

8 minutes ago, Avalon said:

RAV’s are firmly in the ‘Soft Road’ category, they lack the ground clearance for anything serious. Probably OK for a muddy field or farm tracks, less so for proper green lane work or serious off-road work.

Is there an official ground clearance figure for the RAV 4?

I think the Suzuki Vitara is 185mm

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Bobby_1970 said:

Good bit of info. Thank you. 

Might be a silly question. But can you manually engage the all wheel drive or is it fully automatic?

Any diff lock or hill descent control?

Are they any use off road, for example sort tracks etc. Not any proper rough stuff. 

AWD is fully automatic - the cars starts off in 4WD from rest and, providing the wheels aren't slipping, progressively backs-off the power to the rear wheels and becomes FWD by the time it gets to around 25 mph. So along a motorway commute you should get FWD economy. You only need the additional tractions of 4WD when you are 'stationary' or moving slowly.

There's a 'diff lock' button but all that does is encourage the engine management system to stay in 4WD a little longer - I never found any situation where it was actually useful let alone necessary but ...

You get hill descent control on the auto but not on the manual - it's a feature of the auto box.

Ground clearance on a 4.3 is given as 160mm so fine on gravel tracks and across grass but avoid rocks and ruts!

[Bobby_1970]

One thing I have noticed, the one I'm looking at doesn't appear to have LED headlights? I thought Invincible trim was a good spec, can't see any mention of LED headlights anywhere on the listing from the dealership. 😕

Probably not a deal breaker, but I had xenon's on my Octavia, just assumed they wouldn't be standard halogen affair on a decent spec Toyota

[philip42h]

"Multi-reflector halogen headlamps" on all grades of UK spec 4.4 ...

[Bobby_1970]

Just now, philip42h said:

"Multi-reflector halogen headlamps" on all grades of UK spec 4.4 ...

😣

Not to worry, it's always a compromise when buying used especially I guess. 

How are the standard headlights? Good or worth upgrading the bulbs?

 

[Avalon]

3 hours ago, Bobby_1970 said:

😣

Not to worry, it's always a compromise when buying used especially I guess. 

How are the standard headlights? Good or worth upgrading the bulbs?

 

The stock HB3’s are actually OK in the projectors, what may annoy you (it did with me) is the LED side lights are obviously pure white, the halogens look yellow and dated in the projectors by comparison. The only (legal) option other is a more appropriate colour temp. bulb, they tend to come with a blue filter to compensate for the yellow nature of halogen, this usually reduces light output or if you use a higher output bulb, they cost a small fortune (40/pair for top end) and have a much shorter lifespan. Theoretically modern micro ballasts for HID’s may fit in the recess of the headlight and therefore look totally stock, especially as you have a clean cut-off on the projector units, officially you would need self levelling, headlight washers and replacement headlight assemblies with e mark bulbs to fit them though. Don’t waste your time with LED headlight bulbs, they are quite literally unfit for purpose (even the OSRAM or Philips Ultinon) and just as not road legal as HID’s. You can upgrade the interior bulbs to LED cheaply and legally, Philips do a ‘warm white’ 501 which is slightly less harsh than the 6000K options.

Another minor annoyance is the manual electric mirrors, it’s about 30 mins and £20 to fix it with a 3rd party kit. I would also suggest ordering a VCI lead for Techstream (Toyota equivalent of VCDS) to tweak options, if you have a Carista licence then use that. My other pet hate of the Invincible trim is the plastic gear lever cover and the lack of colour matched vent rings, some of the interior was changed in the facelift (15 onwards - but depends on build date rather than reg, if it has LED rear lights, it’s a post facelift). The infotainment system was dated when it was new, it’s not aged well. You can source a current software version with current maps for £29 from eBay, it’s not massively better, but it’s marginally less awful. The lack of sunglasses holder is also a minor annoyance coming from a 4.2, but fixed for under £8 and 5 mins work. I (personally) find the 4.4 generation suspension to be harsh, but this could be that I am spoilt by comparatively fresh Bilstein setup on my old 4.2 with 16” alloys vs 6 y/o stock set-up with 85K on it and 18” wheels.

Service wise you are in for a surprise, 5 y/o cars get 20% off, but you also get a free manufacturers warranty for 10K/12 months after a service, obviously that’s pretty different to VAG. Unfortunately you can the parts department, Toyota deemed them to be non customer facing, if you have watched Game of Thrones, asking to order parts is one step away from them ringing a bell and yelling ‘SHAME!’ Expect a man with a bit of paper and a pen/pencil to appear and where as with VAG you can order retrofit options easily, Toyota will officially only supply parts originally fitted to your car… You can source from the usual places like Autodoc or ECP etc. but it’s a world away from what you are used to via TPS or your average VAG brand dealer.

If the above sounds like I don’t like RAV’s, consider that I am on my 3rd personally and as a family we are on our 5th having done upwards of 500K in total, with only one mechanical breakdown (and one related tyre failure), I can think of cars that drive better or are faster, have better interiors or more toys, but as a tool to do a job, they are very good cars.

[Bobby_1970]

12 minutes ago, Avalon said:

The stock HB3’s are actually OK in the projectors, what may annoy you (it did with me) is the LED side lights are obviously pure white, the halogens look yellow and dated in the projectors by comparison. The only (legal) option other is a more appropriate colour temp. bulb, they tend to come with a blue filter to compensate for the yellow nature of halogen, this usually reduces light output or if you use a higher output bulb, they cost a small fortune (40/pair for top end) and have a much shorter lifespan. Theoretically modern micro ballasts for HID’s may fit in the recess of the headlight and therefore look totally stock, especially as you have a clean cut-off on the projector units, officially you would need self levelling, headlight washers and replacement headlight assemblies with e mark bulbs to fit them though. Don’t waste your time with LED headlight bulbs, they are quite literally unfit for purpose (even the OSRAM or Philips Ultinon) and just as not road legal as HID’s. You can upgrade the interior bulbs to LED cheaply and legally, Philips do a ‘warm white’ 501 which is slightly less harsh than the 6000K options.

Another minor annoyance is the manual electric mirrors, it’s about 30 mins and £20 to fix it with a 3rd party kit. I would also suggest ordering a VCI lead for Techstream (Toyota equivalent of VCDS) to tweak options, if you have a Carista licence then use that. My other pet hate of the Invincible trim is the plastic gear lever cover and the lack of colour matched vent rings, some of the interior was changed in the facelift (15 onwards - but depends on build date rather than reg, if it has LED rear lights, it’s a post facelift). The infotainment system was dated when it was new, it’s not aged well. You can source a current software version with current maps for £29 from eBay, it’s not massively better, but it’s marginally less awful. The lack of sunglasses holder is also a minor annoyance coming from a 4.2, but fixed for under £8 and 5 mins work. I (personally) find the 4.4 generation suspension to be harsh, but this could be that I am spoilt by comparatively fresh Bilstein setup on my old 4.2 with 16” alloys vs 6 y/o stock set-up with 85K on it and 18” wheels.

Service wise you are in for a surprise, 5 y/o cars get 20% off, but you also get a free manufacturers warranty for 10K/12 months after a service, obviously that’s pretty different to VAG. Unfortunately you can the parts department, Toyota deemed them to be non customer facing, if you have watched Game of Thrones, asking to order parts is one step away from them ringing a bell and yelling ‘SHAME!’ Expect a man with a bit of paper and a pen/pencil to appear and where as with VAG you can order retrofit options easily, Toyota will officially only supply parts originally fitted to your car… You can source from the usual places like Autodoc or ECP etc. but it’s a world away from what you are used to via TPS or your average VAG brand dealer.

If the above sounds like I don’t like RAV’s, consider that I am on my 3rd personally and as a family we are on our 5th having done upwards of 500K in total, with only one mechanical breakdown (and one related tyre failure), I can think of cars that drive better or are faster, have better interiors or more toys, but as a tool to do a job, they are very good cars.

That's some excellent and informative info. Many thanks for sharing. Car buying is always a bit of a compromise I feel. Most of us do not have unlimited funds unfortunately. But I am looking forward to driving one tomorrow and it's a huge difference from anything I have ever owned. I actually work within the lighting industry but more commercial and residential. So understand colour temp and output of lamps somewhat. If I pull the trigger I will see how I fare with the standard lamps before doing anything. 

So, am i correct in saying the wing mirrors don't auto fold when locking the car? Not a huge problem if it has to be done manually but if it can be automated for a few quid I'm up for that. 

I suspect that the performance will be just right for me tbh. They just seem like a good all round motor tbh. The one I am considering was registered December 2015. I am certain it's not a facelift one tbh. 

Regards the infotainment system. Does it support android auto? I am expecting not tbh at this age?

Thanks again. 

[Avalon]

Toyota have a nasty habit of making what I think of as facepalm choices. The folding mirrors are a perfect example: They include electric folding mirrors, but require you to press a button (far right of the lower dash, to the right of the L/R switch for mirror adjustment) to make the mirrors fold in. On VCDS you just do the coding to enable it on cars with electric mirrors, on Toyota… no. Thankfully an almost plug and play solution exists, it’s a 3 wire install and the rest plugs in to the OEM connectors. After that you hit lock and the mirrors fold, hit unlock and they open.

No to android auto, it was only introduced on the next generation (4.5) and then only actually made available within the last year or so as a software upgrade from Toyota to the earlier cars of the 4.5 generation.

Car wise I come from an IT background and like motorbikes…. you can fit a 22U half rack in the back of a RAV4… along with a full set of motorbike fairings with the seats down 😉

[Bobby_1970]

Have to say, after having a drive I have decided it's not for me. 

I'm sure they are nice cars. But definitely not what I expected or would be happy with on a daily basis. It was also much more "tatty" than the photos online would lead you to believe. 

Have to say a big thanks for all of the info tho. 

[Avalon]

I feel like I should at least ask, what were you expecting and what didn’t it live upto? No judgement, but it may be useful for anyone who comes after.

[Bobby_1970]

Firstly the example I looked at, at a main dealer, was a bit tatty lots of scuff marks on trim, even the  headlining was marked. 

However the driving experience, for me, was not quite what I was expecting. It felt quite "agricultural" to me. The engine was also quite loud in terms of its intrusion into the cabin. It went well tho. Lots of pull. The cabin seemed to have a few rattles, creaks and squeaks also. I didn't expect a range rover level of refinement. But I expected better than I experienced. 

Maybe I was unlucky and saw a bad one.

[Avalon]

RAV’s in the early generations were what I can only describe as being quite utilitarian, by the 4th generation (that you looked at), they had got them to the point where they were reasonably mature and the 15 plate is about when they switched to the BMW diesel rather than the Toyota version. I wouldn’t rate the interiors up with the likes of the Volvo XC, BMW X5 or anything premium from JLR, but it was reasonable in its class/price point at the time and felt very much civilised and car like by this stage. That said it’s a diesel, it’ll sound like a diesel and feel like a diesel and if you are coming from a petrol, that will sound quite different.

Trim wise the bits that tend to suffer are the button to fold the mirrors (I wonder why that would be?), painted plastic door pull inserts as the paint wears due to a lack of clear coat - I ordered a replacement set that have been clear coated over the weekend for my 14 plate for all of £40 delivered, it’ll be the last set it ever needs. I always think the PU leather used on the door cards is very thin, but so far it’s held up OK.

Cabin rattle and road noise are subjective, the former shouldn’t really be a thing on a 5 y/o car, that said a lot can happen in 5 years, the dash could have been apart for all sorts of reasons etc. and generally that results in rattles and squeaks that can take some dedication to diagnose and resolve. Tyre noise varies from tyre to tyre and is also affected by tyre age/road conditions,  even Skoda got backlash a few years back for its less than great factory tyre choices. If it came in legal, a dealer isn’t likely to have chosen to fit anything else to it unless asked. Personally I find the new Mitchellin CrossClimates to be pretty reasonable in this respect despite what the reviews may say, and as Costco sell them cheaper than anyone else fitted, that’s what I have defaulted to, along with the fuel.

I guess what I’m saying is don’t let a not so great example put you off, but if cabin noise and refinement is a priority, you may find other options are better suited to your needs.

[philip42h]

As above, it's a four cylinder diesel and will sound like a diesel - it's also a 2.2 rather than anything smaller so rather bigger bangs and relatively more noise. The dominant sound track in the cabin is the engine, rather than the road or the wind, but it isn't anything excessive.

Your only stated comparison is with a Range Rover - a car at two or three times the price ... yes, I know you said that you didn't expect but I suspect that is the benchmark you hoped for.

In terms of general condition, that particular car doesn't seem to have been well cared for. The interior doesn't mark that easily and rattles and squeaks are normally down to 'stuff' that the owner stores in the car - they are generally well screwed together. Even so, it may be a bit of TLC and a proper service - they sound quieter with new oil - would make a significant difference even to that particular car ...

[Bobby_1970]

48 minutes ago, philip42h said:

As above, it's a four cylinder diesel and will sound like a diesel - it's also a 2.2 rather than anything smaller so rather bigger bangs and relatively more noise. The dominant sound track in the cabin is the engine, rather than the road or the wind, but it isn't anything excessive.

Your only stated comparison is with a Range Rover - a car at two or three times the price ... yes, I know you said that you didn't expect but I suspect that is the benchmark you hoped for.

In terms of general condition, that particular car doesn't seem to have been well cared for. The interior doesn't mark that easily and rattles and squeaks are normally down to 'stuff' that the owner stores in the car - they are generally well screwed together. Even so, it may be a bit of TLC and a proper service - they sound quieter with new oil - would make a significant difference even to that particular car ...

Tbh. When compared to my previous car, a 2.0 Octavia vRS TDI on a 2010 plate, also a four cylinder diesel I believe, the 2015 Toyota sounded like a tractor by comparison. I wasn't expecting range rover at all, i don't really think I indicated that I did, apologies if my post comes across that way. The Toyota was closer to a friend's old Land Rover Defender for sure and as such not for me. Each to their own. 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Bobby_1970 said:

Tbh. When compared to my previous car, a 2.0 Octavia vRS TDI on a 2010 plate, also a four cylinder diesel I believe, the 2015 Toyota sounded like a tractor by comparison. I wasn't expecting range rover at all, i don't really think I indicated that I did, apologies if my post comes across that way. The Toyota was closer to a friend's old Land Rover Defender for sure and as such not for me. Each to their own. 

Certainly no need to apologise! The RAV should sound no 'worse' than your Octavia ... maybe the one you tried has been badly maintained or even has a wee hole in the exhaust. As you say, not the car for you ... 🙂